9mm vs 45 acp .223/5.56 vs. ?????

DarkJoker33

DarkJoker33

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So I know this is probably a hot topic and there are a probably a few threads about it already.
But the general question rang in my head.
Bigger bullets/grain = stopping power.
The conversation that's been had over and over.

But it was reinforced by 2/3 respected gunners.


View: https://youtu.be/odbb8IrROz4



View: https://youtu.be/BvWhX2MHzYQ


I then ask myself the question, are Bigger rifles and rounds nessesary?( I know most of the answers will either be yes, or why not? I'm hoping for an actual conversation to form)
Outside of hunting and going for 1000 yard shots?

As much as I like 45-70, I look at it and don't see it as a need. It was a 100% want.
I even think of bug out scenarios and actually question if I'd take it or leave it.
And 90% of the time, the answer is leave it.
Due to the need being very low. I'm not exactly in bear country.

And for scenarios that need a bigger round whatever they maybe, you can just get another AR upper and use standard GI mags for all rifle rounds.

I'm curious to where this will go. If a proper conversation spawns from it and things like 2 world wars are not thrown around.
 
Below approximately 2200fps, all you’re doing is crushing flesh, making a hole.
45-70 is a big and heavy round with decent penetration. That temporary wound cavity may be bigger from larger calibers but just as the name states, it’s temporary.

Above 2200fps. (Which 45-70 is not, from what I can tell?) that temporary wound cavity becomes permanent, our blobishness can’t compete with speed. This is where bullet weight and caliber can and absolutely does make a difference.

45-70 is fun and has shown to deflect less through brush and foliage (brush gun!). This makes it a decent bug out option. However, capacity and ammo weight are not to be left off the table.

Customary caliber argument video. I’ve watched it many times, I suggest you do the same.

View: https://youtu.be/T6kUvi72s0Y
 
Mesatchornug said:
How do you define "need" in the question you pose?
Click to expand...
lol, in the years i've been shooting, MY answer is...need = want. i need a 2" 44 mag. i need a 10" 45/70 contender barrel. i need a 9 AND a .45, you know, to compare side by side. i got a safe full of needs. i worked for a company for 10 years that shut down for a month in the summer. i bought a new firearm every summer that i needed for shutdown. 10 "summer guns" sit in my safe with a box of ammo through them. we had a thread on that recently. thank god the only one i had to convice i needed a gun over the years was just myself.
 
greencobra said:
lol, in the years i've been shooting, MY answer is...need = want. i need a 2" 44 mag. i need a 10" 45/70 contender barrel. i need a 9 AND a .45, you know, to compare side by side. i got a safe full of needs. i worked for a company for 10 years that shut down for a month in the summer. i bought a new firearm every summer that i needed for shutdown. 10 "summer guns" sit in my safe with a box of ammo through them. we had a thread on that recently. thank god the only one i had to convice i needed a gun over the years was just myself.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

Do I want a .460 revolver? - f*ck yeah, I need it.
 
greencobra said:
lol, in the years i've been shooting, MY answer is...need = want. i need a 2" 44 mag. i need a 10" 45/70 contender barrel. i need a 9 AND a .45, you know, to compare side by side. i got a safe full of needs. i worked for a company for 10 years that shut down for a month in the summer. i bought a new firearm every summer that i needed for shutdown. 10 "summer guns" sit in my safe with a box of ammo through them. we had a thread on that recently. thank god the only one i had to convice i needed a gun over the years was just myself.
Click to expand...
Paradise! [wave]
 
Mesatchornug said:
Different hammers, different nails.

How do you define "need" in the question you pose? Or, what are you shooting? Paper? Chipmunk? Coyote? Moose? Unarmored individual assailant at 50 yards? Armored invaders at 400m? Tanks?
Click to expand...
I mean, if you follow spomers video, shot placement is key.
So outside of that tank shot, accuracy wins.
45Badger said:
.30-06 in that comparison/paradigm.

7.62x51 if your slightly progressive
Click to expand...
Had the 7.62x51.
Logic behind it when I first bought the gun, was if shtf, the ammo is everywhere and plentiful.
But, from a lot of what I've been watching and Minor reading, 6.5 grendal is close to the same performance. Just ammo isn't plentiful like .308.
G4Y4HK said:
50 Beowulf. Officer, those aren't 30 round "high capacity" magazines - see? They're 10 round MA compliant .50 Beowulf mags!
Click to expand...
I honestly thought about doing an upper in that and selling the 45-70 to fund it.
But dammit, I 💚 me some good ole lever action
 
Tinkermatic said:
Below approximately 2200fps, all you’re doing is crushing flesh, making a hole.
45-70 is a big and heavy round with decent penetration. That temporary wound cavity may be bigger from larger calibers but just as the name states, it’s temporary.

Above 2200fps. (Which 45-70 is not, from what I can tell?) that temporary wound cavity becomes permanent, our blobishness can’t compete with speed. This is where bullet weight and caliber can and absolutely does make a difference.

45-70 is fun and has shown to deflect less through brush and foliage (brush gun!). This makes it a decent bug out option. However, capacity and ammo weight are not to be left off the table.

Customary caliber argument video. I’ve watched it many times, I suggest you do the same.

View: https://youtu.be/T6kUvi72s0Y
Click to expand...

Video was already in my watch history

So I have seen it at some point or another
 
DarkJoker33 said:
6.5 grendal is close to the same performance. Just ammo isn't plentiful like .308
Click to expand...
Ghhrmghrm.

Really goes back to question of what was the rifle you’ve built intended for.

If you like rifles, the mandatory calibers you have to own are 22lr, 5.56/.223, .308.

Practice with those and then you will sort it out if next thing you’re after is a 6.5CM / 6CM, or a 300blk, or - to infinity and beyond.

Performance wise they all perform perfectly.
 

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