7.62 AR questions

[Lucas McCain]

Man, this sites posting bites. You need to keep logging on.

If you are using IE, put NES in as a friendly site and then the next time you log on, check the remember me box and you wont have to re-log on every time. I think firefox allows you to do it without making it a trusted site.

Sorry for the off post info.

 

[vellnueve]

I was refering to the practicallity of it all, not the political BS that is the AWB. I own an AR in 7.62 and love it but it would not be my first choice for putting meat on the table. I would rather slog through the bush with my model 700 in .308 rather than the AR which is a heavy SOB.

My Model 700 weighs more than any of my ARs... even the one with the quad-rail/light/EOtech/grips/laser...

 

[PatMcD]

Pat McD:

Forward Assist: It will help seat a round fully if the round was not fully chambered due to basically limp wristing the charging handle or not getting full blowback from the gasses. If it's a deformed round or or obstruction, it won't help you much short of using a hammer.

Dust cover: It'll keep small obstructions from entering the internals.

Why is it when any firearm question is posted, when the beggining is ARXX, it always enters into a war scenerio. The poster is asking specific questions about a platform he is not familiar with. Do you know any hunter that pre-preps his firearm by putting it into a mud puddle? If yes, then do you know any soldier that does the same before going out of base camp? And as far as cost's go, it's his coin, not yours that is unless your part of the wealth re-distribution crowd. I'm sorry if a manufacturer feels that they need to nickel and dime their product by making standard parts on a platform an option. Simply put, if your sedate with your rifle, more power to you. I'm happy with mine., but you may want to stay within the parameters of the post and not offer post-apocaliptical opinions.

Thanks. I know what the FA and Dust Covers do.

As for the rest of your post, I'm not sure you have read my posts clearly on this topic. Kenny asked about a rifle to be used for target/hunting use. I simply put forward the thought that the FA and dust cover weren't necessary for that use (and since the rifle he was interested in didn't offer them, don't worry about it).

 

[PatMcD]

6.5 Creedmore: supposed to be a great round. I'm sure it is, but it is so ballistically close to the the .260 (6.5x08) that I would stick to that if only for the fact of brass availability (.308, 7mm-08, .243 brass can be necked up or down to make .260; not so with the Creedmore).

.338 Federal is, I think, a necked-up .308 to .33 cal. A great hunting round, no doubt, but starts to move away from your long-range target requirement.

.308 is hard to beat.

 

[Taipan01]

Thanks. I know what the FA and Dust Covers do.

As for the rest of your post, I'm not sure you have read my posts clearly on this topic. Kenny asked about a rifle to be used for target/hunting use. I simply put forward the thought that the FA and dust cover weren't necessary for that use (and since the rifle he was interested in didn't offer them, don't worry about it).

Then you should remain within the parameters of the questions, basically functions and use. There are a number of things in an AR that could be considered luxury items, say, why not get ride of the hand guards and wear a glove, hold it by the mag well while using it? It will save some money on the buyers end. It just seems to cheapen a product that has been refined by almost 50 years of intensive research and practicle use, yes, even on the battlefield.

 

[Lucas McCain]

My Model 700 weighs more than any of my ARs... even the one with the quad-rail/light/EOtech/grips/laser...

My LR-308 weighs in at just over 12 pounds, my model 700 comes in just over 9 pounds. I agree an AR15 is much lighter but in .308, these are somewhat heavy.

 

[Kenny474]

I am not super worried about the forward assist or dust cover. I don't have a forward assist on anything else. And as it has been stated before, if the round won't chamber, there's probably a problem. I would think there would still be a provision for a dust cover on the upper, if I need one I will add one. Same for the forward assist if it is possible. If the rifle doesn't come with it, it evidently isn't required. I would rather pay for accuracy than unnecessary luxuries.

I have read a few reviews for the 24" stainless barrel model, and they claim 1/2 moa accuracy at 100 yards, and say it is still capable of good grouping at 600. That is much farther than I will ever shoot, as I don't even know of a 600 yard range, wish I did though.

Thanks again
Kenny

 

[vellnueve]

Which Model 700 are you using? Mine is a PSS with a Mark IV and a Harris bipod... it's a heavy one.

I'm planning to build an LR-308 clone, so I guess I'll find out.


If the concern is about an AR built for hunting, why not just get the Remington model?

 

[Kenny474]

My LR-308 weighs in at just over 12 pounds, my model 700 comes in just over 9 pounds. I agree an AR15 is much lighter but in .308, these are somewhat heavy.

3lbs isn't going to break me. I regularly hike with a 65lb pack for 15-20 miles in a weekend. I'm in decent shape so I think I'll be ok. Thanks for pointing out the weight though.

 

[Kenny474]

If the concern is about an AR built for hunting, why not just get the Remington model?

I like the DPMS for a few reasons. It's black. I can buy another upper of different caliber if I want to down the road, and DPMS has more options in that regard, such as 6.5 Creedmoor,.260 Remington and .338 Federal, along with a few others. The barrel is 4" longer, which will help with distance shooting, as this will also be my long range target gun.

One more question though, would I be able to put a .223 upper on this? Or am I stuck with the bigger calibers?

 

[Taipan01]

6.5 Creedmore: supposed to be a great round. I'm sure it is, but it is so ballistically close to the the .260 (6.5x08) that I would stick to that if only for the fact of brass availability (.308, 7mm-08, .243 brass can be necked up or down to make .260; not so with the Creedmore).

.338 Federal is, I think, a necked-up .308 to .33 cal. A great hunting round, no doubt, but starts to move away from your long-range target requirement.

.308 is hard to beat.

Again, your walking into a proprietary area. There is no animal in North America that can hold up against a .308, as a matter of fact, none in the world can hold up to a .22. It's all in the placement. The AR platform is extreamly versitile. You can use a standard lower to accept a number of uppers. The limit is the size of the mag well. I don't think all the variables have been explored yet on the 308 base but you have a number of options on the 5.56/.223 base. It's basically what will sell to the public. Getting back to proprietary , It's a freak round that you speak, not common, which means costs without much gain, dig it?

Editing to add: Again, it's the mag well that determines what upper can be used.

 

[Taipan01]

My LR-308 weighs in at just over 12 pounds, my model 700 comes in just over 9 pounds. I agree an AR15 is much lighter but in .308, these are somewhat heavy.

I wouldn't know. As stated, mine unloaded is under 10. Closest is 9.75.

 

[vellnueve]

One more question though, would I be able to put a .223 upper on this? Or am I stuck with the bigger calibers?

You can't. If that's an issue, you might consider a 7.62x39 AR.

 

[Taipan01]

You can't. If that's an issue, you might consider a 7.62x39 AR.

Actually you could but for what gain? I don't think it would be prudent too, finacially speaking. Why buy blocked mags, redesign a bolt and upper where the cost between an upper and a full AR is only a couple hundred. The lower is realativley inexpensive as compaired to a full upper/bolt group. Again, the limit is the mag well size.

 

[vellnueve]

What are you talking about?

If he wants a hunting rifle and can find an acceptable 7.62x39 setup that fits his needs, then he can use a .30 caliber rifle cartridge that is legal for deer hunting anywhere in the US, yet still retain full interchangeability with a 5.56 upper. There are some places that require .30 caliber or greater for hunting deer or don't permit the use of .22 caliber rifles.

You cannot use a 5.56 upper on a 7.62x51 lower.

 

[PatMcD]

Then you should remain within the parameters of the questions, basically functions and use. There are a number of things in an AR that could be considered luxury items, say, why not get ride of the hand guards and wear a glove, hold it by the mag well while using it? It will save some money on the buyers end. It just seems to cheapen a product that has been refined by almost 50 years of intensive research and practicle use, yes, even on the battlefield.

Am I in the Twilight Zone here or are you deliberately misinterpreting what I am saying?

The 50 years of intensive research and use you speak of has been as a battlefield weapon. All I am saying is that those two items (FA and DC), while desireable and maybe necessary on a rifle meant to go into harms way, aren't 100% needed on a target/hunting rifle.

Once again: kenny asked about specifically about those two items and whether or not they were needed on a target/hunting rifle. I gave him my opinion. I really don't see how I'm not "remain(ing) within the parameters of the questions, basically functions and use".

 

[Taipan01]

What are you talking about?

If he wants a hunting rifle and can find an acceptable 7.62x39 setup that fits his needs, then he can use a .30 caliber rifle cartridge that is legal for deer hunting anywhere in the US, yet still retain full interchangeability with a 5.56 upper. There are some places that require .30 caliber or greater for hunting deer or don't permit the use of .22 caliber rifles.

You cannot use a 5.56 upper on a 7.62x51 lower.

I'm assuming this is mine. I believe the question was can you mount a 5.56 upper on a .308 lower, you stated you can't. I said you could if someone were to manufacture one to do so. I then stated that it would be impractible to do so as it would require blocked magazines and a redesigned upper/bolt combination to do and that the difference between that upper/bolt configuration and a full AR15 would be negligable, not including the special mags. Or have you've never seen AR's with pistol chamberings? a 7.62 X 39 is the same, ballistically as a 30-30, not in the same league as a .308, performance, accuracy speaking that is, which I think is what the poster is looking for. The 22 part comes in where I stated that no animal can stand up to a .308 in North America if he does his part and that no animal can stand up to a 22 for that matter if the placement is right. I did not state to hunt deer with a 22, you read into it what you wanted to. Any other questions?

 

[Kenny474]

If he wants a hunting rifle and can find an acceptable 7.62x39 setup that fits his needs, then he can use a .30 caliber rifle cartridge that is legal for deer hunting anywhere in the US, yet still retain full interchangeability with a 5.56 upper. There are some places that require .30 caliber or greater for hunting deer or don't permit the use of .22 caliber rifles.

You cannot use a 5.56 upper on a 7.62x51 lower.

I am not all that fond of the .223 round anyway, I was only curious if it was possible, as surplus ammo is super cheap. But then I would need a 5.56 upper anyway, but you get the point. Kinda getting schooled on AR's today.

The .308 seems to be the way to go. If I buy another upper it will either be .260 or .243, as both are excellent smaller diameter long range bullets based on the .308 case. That way I can use the same mags and keep things simple. The 6.5 creedmoor is slightly different, straighter walls and different shoulder angle, and I checked brass, not so cheap.

This gun will be the most expensive I have ever bought, so buying another complete is out of the question. An upper is several hundred $$$ cheaper, so that will be a long term goal. I am looking for versatility in this rifle, hence the AR platform. This will likely be a lifetime purchase, so the more I can use it for the better.

I hope to someday try some 600 yard competition, and I hope this will be enough to get me started. I know a bolt gun would be better for that in some aspects, but it will need to do other things as well. That is also the reason for the 24" barrel, to try to get all the distance I can. I am a beginner hand loader, so I will be able to tune my loads. Maybe not all that well, but I hope to get better someday. It all takes time.

Thanks for all the help and info! Anything else you feel I need to know, just put it in here, I will listen!
Kenny

 

[vellnueve]

I'm assuming this is mine. I believe the question was can you mount a 5.56 upper on a .308 lower, you stated you can't. I said you could if someone were to manufacture one to do so.

No 5.56 upper receiver built today will fit on any available 7.62x51mm lower. The OP asked specifically about the DPMS line, which exists and which is what he is interested in buying, not some phantom, non-existent, conjectural firearm

I then stated that it would be impractible to do so as it would require blocked magazines and a redesigned upper/bolt combination to do and that the difference between that upper/bolt configuration and a full AR15 would be negligable, not including the special mags. Or have you've never seen AR's with pistol chamberings?

This has nothing to do with the question at hand.

a 7.62 X 39 is the same, ballistically as a 30-30, not in the same league as a .308, performance, accuracy speaking that is, which I think is what the poster is looking for.

It can be loaded to perform better than the standard loads out there, like any other. And the 30-30 is one of the oldest and most successful deer cartridges out there.


The 22 part comes in where I stated that no animal can stand up to a .308 in North America if he does his part and that no animal can stand up to a 22 for that matter if the placement is right. I did not state to hunt deer with a 22, you read into it what you wanted to. Any other questions?

Yet since he's specifically buying this as a hunting rifle, none of that has any relevance.

I know you're trying to play know-it-all, but believe it or not, some of us know what we're talking about.

 

[Kenny474]

Come on guys, I appreciate all your answers! Though opinions may differ, they are all good and come from different perspectives. I understand everyones point. Please stay civil as everyone opinion matters, and I would like as many as possible. Nobody is being disregarded and all are being considered. You all state valid points. Please keep the info and opinions coming, as that is the only way I will learn. Because I don't have an AR to try, I need to learn what I can this way.

Thanks again!
Kenny

 

[vellnueve]

I am not all that fond of the .223 round anyway, I was only curious if it was possible, as surplus ammo is super cheap. But then I would need a 5.56 upper anyway, but you get the point. Kinda getting schooled on AR's today.

Huh? Where?

 

[Taipan01]

Am I in the Twilight Zone here or are you deliberately misinterpreting what I am saying?

The 50 years of intensive research and use you speak of has been as a battlefield weapon. All I am saying is that those two items (FA and DC), while desireable and maybe necessary on a rifle meant to go into harms way, aren't 100% needed on a target/hunting rifle.

Once again: kenny asked about specifically about those two items and whether or not they were needed on a target/hunting rifle. I gave him my opinion. I really don't see how I'm not "remain(ing) within the parameters of the questions, basically functions and use".

No I am not. He seems to have questions about what they do, not nessasarialy on if they are needed. You brought the battlefield into it origionally. If you want an AR that's trimmed, fine. If the poster feels that the parts are not needed for his use and are an option and not worth the extra costs, fine again. I'm trying to fill in what these optional parts do. You go tangent with mud puddles.

 

[Kenny474]

Huh? Where?

Well, not super cheap, but it's not that bad. I have actually seen some around recently too. I am used to buying 30-06 ammo, so most anything is cheap compared to that. I know ammo has gone up recently, but .223 is still less than I am used to paying, and the generic stuff is 1/2 price or less than what I am used to. I should have stated generic ammo instead or surplus, as you are right, surplus is nowhere to be found. Sorry, miss-worded that.

 

[Taipan01]

vellnueve:
Ahh-huh.

Kenny, this dude or dude-tte will ansewer you questions from here on out. Enjoy the rifle if you get it.

 

[Kenny474]

Can we try to keep this an information thread and not argue? I want to know about AR's, plain and simple. thanks for the info. But please don't argue. Everybody has their own opinion. Let's leave it at that.

 

[alseneet]

Kenny, I live in southern Maine and I have a dpms lefty ar in 5.56 if you want to try one out. Let me know and we can get together and go to my local range in South Berwick. I have the 20 inch barrel, forward assist and no dust cover. It is very accurate and I have had no problems with it.

 

[Kenny474]

Kenny, I live in southern Maine and I have a dpms lefty ar in 5.56 if you want to try one out. Let me know and we can get together and go to my local range in South Berwick. I have the 20 inch barrel, forward assist and no dust cover. It is very accurate and I have had no problems with it.

Thanks! That would be awesome! Just tell me when and I'm there!

 

[alseneet]

I am free most evenings. The range is open until sundown. I even have a ww2 garand I will let you try if you are interested. I can pm you my number if that helps. Or let me know your schedule and we can figure out a time. Jeff

 

[Kenny474]

I sent you a PM. I will send you my # so we can figure things out. Thanks!

 

[PatMcD]

Kenny, to make a long story short: buy the DPMS LR308. You won't regret it.

I had one, 24" barrel, that shot Fed GMM into 1/2MOA. I've personally never heard of one that wasn't accurate.