7.62 AR questions

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I have been looking at the DPMS line of 7.62 AR's and have a few questions about the rifle and if you think it would be suited to hunting and long range shooting, as well as what features are necessities and unnecessary luxuries. I have done a little research, but still have questions.

How important are the forward assist, dust shield and shell deflector? Also what does the forward assist do?

What are the advantages to either stainless steel or chrome moly barrels, and also should it be chrome plated?

Will a bull barrel be worth the extra weight with most shots being 300 yards or less?

The 3 models I have been looking at are the LR-308 24" stainless bull barrel, the LR-308-B 18" chrome moly bull barrel, and the 7.62 nato sportical 16" chrome moly barrel

None of them have forward assist, shell deflectors, or dust covers. Are those things I will want to add on? Also, would a Timney trigger or a 2-stage be worth the extra money?

Any help is appreciated as I would like to know what features are needed on an AR, as I have never shot or owned one. Thanks.
 
Forward assist pushes on the round to make sure it is fully seated in the chamber, dust cover keeps out...dust. The shell deflector on my .223 Bushy has some scratches and marks on it, so I can only assume it's doing it's job. Can't say if either are entirely necessary, and I can't speak to the rest of the questions, but it's a start.
 
How much weight are you looking to carry on the hunt. The gun I am imagining weighs over 12lbs. Not my idea of a good hunter but to each his/her own. Best of luck hunting though.
 
Weight isn't really an issue, as I am expecting 9-14lbs and I will be sitting in a stand most of the time on the edge of a huge field. I have other guns that are lighter if I need to be on the move, but I don't move much when deer hunting. My current stand gun is 10+lbs, so I am used to lugging some weight and slings make life easy. I will do more target shooting than anything else, as deer season is only a month long anyway. I just figure if I'm getting another long gun, I might as well be able to hunt with it as well, which is the reason for the 7.62.

The idea of an Evil Black Hunting Rifle just makes me smile.
 
IMHO, the LR-308 is not the rifle for hunting. I would choose a bolt gun in .308 like a model 700. I have an LR-308 and while it is fun to shoot, it is overkill for hunting.
 
Okay, let me rephrase this. This is going to be mainly a target rifle. I have other bolt guns and a semi-auto to hunt with. But, if I am going to spend $1500 on a gun, I am going to drag it into the woods and hunt with it, ideal or not. The question is not whether it is ideal to hunt with, but rather to get answers for all my other questions regarding barrel material, barrel length, usable range, and what kind of trigger I will need, along with the other questions I need answers to. Thanks.

Actually, I am not even going to spend that, as it will mostly be a gift for my B-day.
 
I understand that the dust cover keeps the dust out, but how important is it? What kind of problems will I have without one? Is it really important or just an unnecessary luxury? Thanks in advance.
 
You won't miss the dust cover or forward assist. Not needed. You will want a new trigger; the stock DPMS one sucks. I would recommend a 2-stage Rock River.
Barrel length is up to you. The 24" is a good idea if you are shooting over 400yds or so because of the increased velocity you can get. Stainless or Chromoly? Doesn't matter; whatever you like the looks of. I don't think you can get a chrome-lined barrel from DPMS, so that's a moot point.

The LR308 is a very accurate rifle.
 
Thanks PatMcD. I only asked about the chrome lined barrel as i have seen many other companies offer them and I was curious as to the benefit.(even if I don't buy one and it isn't offered, I am curious and knowledge hungry) Is the chrome plating supposed to cut down on wear? I also read somewhere that the break-in on chrome lined barrels is different, is that true?
Thanks. Kenny
 
A chrome-lined barrel will supposedly last tens of thousands of rounds (that's a lot). It is very hard to make an accurate chrome-lined barrel, though. The only ones I can think of would maybe be Colt's 1-7 .223.

Barrel break-in? I'm convinced that's an old wives tale.
 
Thanks again, that's why I ask questions. I'll probably stay away from the chrome, as I have yet to wear out a barrel. I can't afford that much ammo!
 
I've never shot a LR-308 but a 24" Armalite is a bit front heavy(I've no problem hunting with M700 24" varminter but the extra length of the AR makes it a pain) . If I wanted to use it for hunting I probably would get a 20" (probably a velocity loss of 120ft/s or so) or less. Your 18" sounds better because of the long receiver but it's not a common size for my Armalite.
For target, well the extra velocity at longer ranges can make it worth the 24". You can always get uppers or switch out bbls.

As for triggers JP is good.
 
The shell deflector is only necessary if you shoot lefty. The forward assist pushes the bolt forward and is the only way you can force a round into the chamber if the inertia of the bolt going forward doesn't do it. The dust cover weighs almost nothing and will keep rain, snow and debris out of the action. This may not be important in a target rifle but it's important in a hunting rifle. I think getting rid of the dust cover and forward assist on a hunting rifle would be a mistake.
 
Wow. I'm trying to follow this one but it's going in a lot of directions. I'm not sure if your use to the AR platform as some of the questions are kinda novice so I'm assuming you are not. I can't speak for the DPMS rifle, maybe more for the Rock river version as it's the re-release of mine. I have the now not manufactured Bushmaster .308. It's built with an Ace skeleton stock, 20" 1-10 twist chrome-molybdenum barrel, A2 sights, Izzy compensator and uses both inch and metric FAL mags. It does have a dust cover, forward assist and deflector. Empty, it weighs in at just under 10 lbs. As far as some of your questions go, yes, you want a dust cover as it will keep out small objects, sand, twigs, whatever out of your internals on your hunt and at the range if it's just sitting there and dust when stored. Yes, you want a forward assist, just in case, I've never used mine on this or any AR but it's there if I need to. What it does is it will push the round fully into the chamber if it failed to feed fully. The deflector helps me as I'm left handed. The deflector is an extrusion on the left hand side where the ejected shell will hit and make it fly more forward then back. I wish they had them on the old M16A1's, sucks, to catch a hot one. By way of magazines, as I said, mine accepts FAL magazines so they are not propritory (ie, expensive) as many of the 308 AR's are. I believe the RRA's are the same. Also, most states that allow center fire also have a 5 round limit. FAL 5 rounders are available over the net for short money, I have a few. As far a barrel lengths go, .308 hunting rifles are usually 22-24". High velocity (3,000 fps+) cartridges need the longer barrel as the lose in FPS is noticeable but not the slower .308, 30.06, 35 Whelen, etc. The faster the bullet, the bigger the drop in FPS by way of Barrel length. Here's some samples from Lymans:
The average loss for the .270 Win./130 grain bullet was 37 fps per inch.
The average loss for the .270 Win./150 grain bullet was 32 fps per inch.
The average loss for the .300 Sav./180 grain bullet was 17 fps per inch.
The average loss for the .30-06/180 grain bullet was 15 fps per inch.
The average loss for the .35 Rem./200 grain bullet was 11 fps per inch.
By way of conclusion of testing, Lyman techs said "The rule of thumb is that high speed, high pressure cartridges shed more speed in short barrels than do the low speed, large bore types." My response is "Gee, no kidding"
By way of triggers, can't help you, I like mine the way it is so I have no intention of changing it. I have heard wonderful things about the Timney's if that helps. As far as accuracy goes, mine can clover leaf at 100 yards using the irons, it can far out shoot my capabilities.
Lucas, I have no idea what this means "IMHO, the LR-308 is not the rifle for hunting. I would choose a bolt gun in .308 like a model 700. I have an LR-308 and while it is fun to shoot, it is overkill for hunting." Sounds a bit fuddish but an accurate semi will walk all over a bolt on so many levels for hunting. Maybe if you mean in an extream environment like sub zero where you can use the bolt as leverage to clear a frozen action. Other than that, I'll have to disagree, IMHO.
Yes, chrome-lined barrels and chambers will help on wear and are more corrosion resistant, reduces failures due to sloppy house keeping. I wouldn't sweat that, as none of us can afford to burn out a .308 barrel right now. There really is no right way to break in a barrel. There are a lot of wrong ways. First thing when and if you get any firearm is clean it. Do not clean it like you see in the movies, more firearms get screwed up by cleaning than use. Internally, wipe it down dry first with a nice soft cloth, then use a bore snake to clean the barrel. If you need to, a little hops 9 on a patch. Always go from the chamber end if possible, this will protect the crown (the crown is the lip where the end of the barrel flows into the bore). I use Q-tips and soft tooth brushes for hard to reach areas. Finish it off with a light lube (CLP, gun oil, etc, your choice) inside and out. Don't sop the wood (if wood) with gun oil, it's not a wood oil. I mention all this as it is important for your break-in and here's how you do it. Clean gun, wipe off any excess oils, inside, outside before going to the range (lots of reasons for this). Load up no more than 3-5 rounds at a time to zero. Zero the rifle in 3-5 round increments and allow the barrel to cool in between firings. Once it's zeroed. Clean it, again, gentle, not white glove. Enjoy your gun. The key is, 3-5 rounds and let the barrel cool off. Fastest way to burn it out is to abuse it unnessasarly. I do own a bunch of high caps but normally, I run 5 round groups, spot the shots, yak a bit with buddies while barrel cools, fire again.
Kenny 474, fire away if I left something out.
 
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My thoughts on the forward assist:
If you are heading out in a life or death situation, by all means, have a forward assist. I wouldn't know anything about this, but I assume it would be a good thing.
In all other cases, if your rifle won't chamber a round, you've got issues. Personally, I don't want to force in a round that won't chamber under normal cycling, much less fire it. If you miss a shot at a deer because of it, so be it. I don't know any deer worth $1500.

Dust Cover? Again, we're not talking about a war scenario here. Normal hunting or target work it isn't going to be missed. I don't drag my bolt-action hunting rifle through mud and I wouldn't do it with an AR either.

If the DPMS doesn't come with these features (mine didn't) I wouldn't sweat it.




The DPMS also comes in .260 Rem, which is an excellent target/deer round if you handload.
 
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Wow, thanks for the advice, really appreciate that. And for the record, I have never shot an AR, as I don't know anybody that owns one. I always wanted one, but I don't want to spend that much $$$ on a gun that can only kill paper, that's why I want a .308 AR.

I really don't understand Lucas Mccain's point of the AR being overkill. Quite a few AR's are marketed as hunting rifles, as well as some that I am considering. I would use a 5 round mag, just like any ther rifle. The round itself is definitely not overkill, as the .308 Nato is a very popular deer round. I use a semi-auto 30-06 most of the time now, so the only difference will be an AR platform instead of a Remington 740, as the 2 rounds are similar in ballistics. If an AR can function in Vietnam and Iraq, I'm sure it will do fine in the NH woods.

I have always used either pump guns or semi-auto's. Even though I now own 2 bolt guns, I am not fast enough with them to be comfortable hunting with one, as I will never get a follow up shot. I want something more accurate than my Remington 740 to hunt with and also to target shoot. I feel the answer is an AR. A quality AR will shoot on par with most good factory bolt guns, especially when it has a 24" stainless barrel. I am quite sure the gun will be more accurate than I am. I still have a few months to shop around and also try to find one that I can shoot. If I don't like it, at least they have good resale value! Which is better than my 740, I couldn't sell that thing for 2 dollars to a Somali pirate. Thanks everybody for the help!

If you had read my "First 1911" thread, I actually put some money down on a Smith&Wesson SW40VE, I'm going to wait for the 1911.
 
If the DPMS doesn't come with these features (mine didn't) I wouldn't sweat it.




The DPMS also comes in .260 Rem, which is an excellent target/deer round if you handload.

I do handload and I will also consider the .260. I was also interested in the 6.5 Creedmoor and the .338 federal, though I don't think I would get the range out of the .338, but it has some serious power. I have read that the 6.5 Creedmoor is designed to be super accurate out of the box as a long range shooter. Tell me what you think of my other options.

I like the .308 for the fact that I can buy surplus ammo for not much more than I can load for, and I don't have to worry about ammo being hard to find in a pinch (though any ammo is hard to find now[sad])
 
What I meant is that the AR is primarily a battle rifle. IMHO hunting means one shot, one kill. Just my opinion.

I understand that completely. I somewhat feel that way myself. Like I say, this will be mainly a target rifle, though I want the option to kill deer if I so desire. I don't want a $1500 rifle that is limited to killing paper. My Dad always told me a rifle you can't hunt with isn't worth having, and I still follow that somewhat. I have a 17HMR to kill paper, I don't need another.
 
Pat McD:

Forward Assist: It will help seat a round fully if the round was not fully chambered due to basically limp wristing the charging handle or not getting full blowback from the gasses. If it's a deformed round or or obstruction, it won't help you much short of using a hammer.

Dust cover: It'll keep small obstructions from entering the internals.

Why is it when any firearm question is posted, when the beggining is ARXX, it always enters into a war scenerio. The poster is asking specific questions about a platform he is not familiar with. Do you know any hunter that pre-preps his firearm by putting it into a mud puddle? If yes, then do you know any soldier that does the same before going out of base camp? And as far as cost's go, it's his coin, not yours that is unless your part of the wealth re-distribution crowd. I'm sorry if a manufacturer feels that they need to nickel and dime their product by making standard parts on a platform an option. Simply put, if your sedate with your rifle, more power to you. I'm happy with mine., but you may want to stay within the parameters of the post and not offer post-apocaliptical opinions.
 
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I understand that completely. I somewhat feel that way myself. Like I say, this will be mainly a target rifle, though I want the option to kill deer if I so desire. I don't want a $1500 rifle that is limited to killing paper. My Dad always told me a rifle you can't hunt with isn't worth having, and I still follow that somewhat. I have a 17HMR to kill paper, I don't need another.

Maybe you do Kenny but I don't. Lucas, what planet are you from?
 
This is the same reasoning that "sportsmen" supporting Obama use to rationalize an AWB.

Exactly, that is until they come to grab their "Sniper Rifles". Divided we fall.

Editing to add: Sorry Kenny, I deveated a bit, it's your thread about a platform. Any other questions?
 
I was refering to the practicallity of it all, not the political BS that is the AWB. I own an AR in 7.62 and love it but it would not be my first choice for putting meat on the table. I would rather slog through the bush with my model 700 in .308 rather than the AR which is a heavy SOB.
 
Hunting deer with a .223 is problematic at best. You can find Hornady 55 grain soft point rounds for you AR-15 that will work for small deer but the round just isn't ethical, imho, to be in the field with. (Plus, at 55 grains, you'd have to have the proper twist in your barrel). The .308, otoh, is perfect for virtually any kind of shooting and the rifles you're looking for at DPMS are beautiful. I'm soon going to be in the market for a .308 on an AR platform myself. I wasn't aware that they would accept FAL mags. If that's the case, then that's wonderful. Mags are the big issue with this family of rifles.

There's been alot written and discussed at the various forums regarding the AR platform in NATO caliber. Frankly, I'm very surprised that it's not a more accepted configuration up to now but it does seem to be gaining acceptance. The NATO round (7.62 x 51) has been proven beyond a doubt to be an excellent round both fields: hunting and battle. Yes, it's heavier and it does take its toll on the mechanics of a rifle but it is a wonderfully flat and accurate shooter well out beyond 300 yards with the proper barrel. The DMPS rifles currently offered seem to stop at the 20" barrel length from their advertising. I'd ask if they had a 24" barrel they might be able to install. "Standard" length AR-15/M16 barrels were 21" so a 24" would only add 3" to the length; that plus the longer receiver to accomodate the longer round and magazines. Overall length, then, wouldn't be that excessive in the woods and I don't think would be a big issue once you got used to it. And, with that longer barrel, you'd be adding the long shot capablility to it. As for forward assist, I wouldn't care if it were missing. My pre-ban AR is a slabside and I've never worried about properly seating a round. Dust cover, otoh, may be a good thing to have as it does keep crud from falling into the open receiver while dragging it through the weeds.

Good luck with your decision. I love with the 7.62 x 51 round having owned and shot it in all the different military rifles out there and I believe that using it in a properly designed AR platform would be combining the best of both worlds, especially if the rifle was designed to use existing and proven FAL magazines.

Rome
 
I'm at a lose here, the Remington weighs about a pound less (depending on the configuration) more than likely and no back-up irons, longer barrel for "slogging". Cabinetman: Yes, the .556 is usually in a 1:9 or 1:7 configuration, sometimes a 1:8, depends on the manufacturer. The old A1's where 1:12. 55 grain is a bit small for hunting medium game, supposidly, but how much does a deer weigh and how much does a man?. I prefer 62 grain myself. Where the .556 has more pressure than the .223, the .308 has more than the Nato 7.62. You won't gain much going 24 as opposed to a 20 in 308 unless you like a longer sight base. Yes, FAL mags in Ar platforms have been out for a long time. Bushmasters 308 was built on a RRA design using FAL mags, that over time became a lose in $ for them along with the Bullpup style rifle. There where a bunch of bull@#$% rumors about it's bolt and the "missing" lug and in the beggining it was true, not the lug but the tail, there was a cut line that would snap but it was rectified later on in newer versions. Since giving the design back to RRA, they re-released it as a RRA 308 using FAL mags. Hope that helps.
 
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I Understand that many people feel that hunting should be "one shot-one kill" and some feel that a semi auto assault rifle is excessive to use hunting. I believe in "one shot-one kill" myself. But I also believe in being humane and sometimes a second shot is required, and I am not fast enough with a bolt gun to do that. I in no way feel an AR is overkill for hunting, not what most people think of as a hunting rifle, but not overkill. I have carried heavy guns and light ones too. I feel that the advantages outweigh the drawbacks. I am going to be carrying the gun, not you, so don't worry about me. I have been hunting for 17 years now, I know and understand what I am doing enough at this point to know what I want and what suits me best. The question is not if I want an AR to hunt with, but what accessories and options I want on my new hunting rifle.

This is the gun I believe I will buy in September, DPMS LR308, 24" stainless barrel chambered in 308. This is a link if you would like to check it out.
http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=14

The only thing in question is the chambering, as the 6.5 Creedmoor also looks very good, and is in a very similar platform. The only difference is the chambering.
http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=51

Thanks for all the info, I really appreciate it!

One more thing, what are FAL magazines? Completely new to AR stuff, so I am clueless to most of it, other than I have held an AR at Riley's and fell in love with it!
 
Man, this sites posting bites. You need to keep logging on. An FAL is a gun, used by some militaries. It is chambered in 7.62 nato (.308). Look it up. They have been around for a long time so there is a ton of surplus stuff for them. When I'm posting FAL magazines it means that the magazines that are used in an FAL can be used in my rifle and not a specific manufatureurs propietory (their own) magazine. In other words, surplus mags at 7-15 bucks as opposed to $50.00 buck propietory.
 
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