45-70 vs 30.06

[jimcor3]

I know this has been beaten to death all over the web but needed to ask. I'm looking to get a new rifle for bear hunting in Massachusetts and something I can use in the brush in other New England states. I'm narrowed it down to either a Marlin 45-70 or a Browning BLR 30.06. I wanted to get input from people who hunt this area before I bought. This is my first year hunting so I'm trying to ask every question I can.
Thanks in advance.


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[MisterHappy]

Either will work for Mass. bear.

You'll get better long-range performance out of the .30-'06 but that's not a huge factor in Mass.

Black bear are not grizzlies - you do not need a cannon. With either, and appropriate hunting loads, you'll do fine. You will have a wider selection of ammo with the .30-'06.

Whichever one you get.....practice. Then, practice some more. Bench, off hand, sitting, kneeling, wearing the same clothes you'll have in the woods.

 

[jimcor3]

Either will work for Mass. bear.

You'll get better long-range performance out of the .30-'06 but that's not a huge factor in Mass.

Black bear are not grizzlies - you do not need a cannon. With either, and appropriate hunting loads, you'll do fine. You will have a wider selection of ammo with the .30-'06.

Whichever one you get.....practice. Then, practice some more. Bench, off hand, sitting, kneeling, wearing the same clothes you'll have in the woods.

They both priced the same that's why I'm asking. I like the power of the 45-70 for close range but you are right I get a better ammo selection with the 30-06. Would the 30.06 over penetrate under 100 yards?


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[northny]

The 45-70 is a good bear gun. The '06 is a good everything gun.
45-70 is mainly in lever guns and the 06 in bolt. Advantage in bolt gun is easier to get an accurate gun with a good trigger.

If I was only going to have one rifle it would be '06. If I was going to only hunt bear I would do 45-70.

 

[gscott]

Both great cartridges. Personally i would go with the 06 .

 

[Knob Creek]

The 30-06 uses generally a 170 Grain bullet. The 45-70 in a hunting round will use a 405 to 500 Grain bullet. I dearly love the 45-70 and have a couple of them. But a 500 Grain bullet hunting load in a light lever gun will rock your world. So Bear that in mind.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

I would opt for 45-70 because I love it.
If you're into reloading you can get so much more out of it. Super easy cartridge to reload and very versatile. 12 grains of red dot will throw a 405 slug at about 1100 FPS. Not a flat trajectory by an means but it will be very easy on the shooter and blow a hole the long way through a bear.
If you plan on longer shots I would say the 30-06 would be a little better. The flatter shooting 45-70 rounds can beat the hell out of you.
Then again if you know your ranges and know where to hold the 45-70 will serve you well at any range you're going to see around here.

 

[jimcor3]

I would opt for 45-70 because I love it.
If you're into reloading you can get so much more out of it. Super easy cartridge to reload and very versatile. 12 grains of red dot will throw a 405 slug at about 1100 FPS. Not a flat trajectory by an means but it will be very easy on the shooter and blow a hole the long way through a bear.
If you plan on longer shots I would say the 30-06 would be a little better. The flatter shooting 45-70 rounds can beat the hell out of you.
Then again if you know your ranges and know where to hold the 45-70 will serve you well at any range you're going to see around here.

Thanks, I'm just torn I love the 30-06 but for New England I think the 45-70 would fit better. I plan on bear hunting with it since I have a 30-30 for deer. This is my first year hunting and don't feel like the 30-30 for solo bear hunting is wise.


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[jimcor3]

The 30-06 uses generally a 170 Grain bullet. The 45-70 in a hunting round will use a 405 to 500 Grain bullet. I dearly love the 45-70 and have a couple of them. But a 500 Grain bullet hunting load in a light lever gun will rock your world. So Bear that in mind.

I have been thinking that, the 3 inch slugs I use in my 12g rifled barrel kicks like a mule so the 405 or 500 would bite worse. I do love lever actions so it's down to 2 a BLR in 30-06 or a Marlin in 45-70.


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[xtry51]

They both priced the same that's why I'm asking. I like the power of the 45-70 for close range but you are right I get a better ammo selection with the 30-06. Would the 30.06 over penetrate under 100 yards?


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Not sure what you're asking here. Any bullet you use to hunt game should come out the other side with significant velocity. It's mostly hydrostatic shock and temporary wound channels that cause most the damage and ensure a clean kill.

 

[Coyote33]

I can't believe that I am the first to mention it, but why not a 30-30? (or .35 Remington, or .35 Whelen)

This gets plenty of power, brush busting, the lever you desire, and a lighter weight, quicker pointing rifle than something else. You also have a lot of choices in 30-30, from Marlin to Henry to Winchester to some of the imports (Rossi? etc.).

Good luck in your search.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

I think the OP has a 30/30.
The 35 Remington would be cool but from what I hear the ammo is tough to find and there isn't much variety. It's a stout cartridge for sure.
I think 45/70 wins on availability and versatility though.
Jimcor3. Do you reload?


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[mpd61]

Hydrostatic shock= ballistic variable of overblown relevance
Brush Busting= ballistically non existent in less than 20mm, mayyyyybe .50 BMG round (Myth)
Temporary wound cavity= ballistic variable of overblown relevance

30-06 kill anything effectively in North America at medium range with proper bullet placement
45/70 kill anything ANYWHERE on Earth with proper placement AND bullet selection at short range.

Strictly speaking N.E. Hunting? go with the 45/70, because it's more accepted at cowboy shoots! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jimcor3]

I can't believe that I am the first to mention it, but why not a 30-30? (or .35 Remington, or .35 Whelen)

This gets plenty of power, brush busting, the lever you desire, and a lighter weight, quicker pointing rifle than something else. You also have a lot of choices in 30-30, from Marlin to Henry to Winchester to some of the imports (Rossi? etc.).

Good luck in your search.

I got a 30-30, I'm looking for something with more power. Love her it's a 1965 Winchester model 94. She is my fines I'm looking for her meaner big sister.


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[jimcor3]

Hydrostatic shock= ballistic variable of overblown relevance
Brush Busting= ballistically non existent in less than 20mm, mayyyyybe .50 BMG round (Myth)
Temporary wound cavity= ballistic variable of overblown relevance

30-06 kill anything effectively in North America at medium range with proper bullet placement
45/70 kill anything ANYWHERE on Earth with proper placement AND bullet selection at short range.

Strictly speaking N.E. Hunting? go with the 45/70, because it's more accepted at cowboy shoots! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well my wife says I'm a horses ass so it fits lol.


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[MisterHappy]

I got a 30-30, I'm looking for something with more power. Love her it's a 1965 Winchester model 94. She is my fines I'm looking for her meaner big sister.


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You just answered your own question. You want a new lever gun. Get the .45-70. Done.

Have fun.

Oh, you may lawfully carry a "big enough" revolver as a backup when hunting bear in the PRM.

http://www.mass.gov/eea/agencies/df...life-watching/hunting/black-bear-hunting.html

 

[jimcor3]

You just answered your own question. You want a new lever gun. Get the .45-70. Done.

Have fun.

Oh, you may lawfully carry a "big enough" revolver as a backup when hunting bear in the PRM.

http://www.mass.gov/eea/agencies/df...life-watching/hunting/black-bear-hunting.html

Browning makes a lever action in 30.06. If it were that easy I would of pulled the trigger. My only hang up is penetration at under 100 yards. How far will the 30.06 travel if it goes through a bear. That's my hold up.and thanks for the revolver info, I wasn't sure about that part. I e read you can and can't.


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[jimcor3]

I think the OP has a 30/30.
The 35 Remington would be cool but from what I hear the ammo is tough to find and there isn't much variety. It's a stout cartridge for sure.
I think 45/70 wins on availability and versatility though.
Jimcor3. Do you reload?


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I wish I reloaded, I don't have a place to in my house.


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[jimcor3]

Not sure what you're asking here. Any bullet you use to hunt game should come out the other side with significant velocity. It's mostly hydrostatic shock and temporary wound channels that cause most the damage and ensure a clean kill.

That's what I'm trying to understand, at 75 yards which has a greater chance.


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[bdb]

If it were me I'd grab a bolt 30-06 and a lever 45-70. In the thick stuff with short distances the 45-70 is prefect. That said the deer I have killed with a 30-06 at 20-25 yards didn't seem to notice what it was that hit them, they died just the same.

 

[HiCap]

I absolutely love the .45-70 round. I have an old Henry at the shop that has become my favorite lever gun.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Either could over penetrate if by that you mean pass through the animal. That shouldn't be a worry though. Make sure nothing is behind the target and you're good to go. The bullet will be badly damaged and will shed velocity quick if it passes through.
Two holes leaking blood is better than one.


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[Sparkey]

Just beware if you buy a pre 81 BLR extra mags run about $200 bucks

 

[jimcor3]

Just beware if you buy a pre 81 BLR extra mags run about $200 bucks

I saw that, that's nuts! I'm looking at a new one. I prefer older rifles but not with mags at 200 bucks.


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[jimcor3]

I absolutely love the .45-70 round. I have an old Henry at the shop that has become my favorite lever gun.

How do you like the tube fed? I've had to replace the tube on my .22 twice due to the end bending and not holding the rod.


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[Bando_Red]

I have been thinking that, the 3 inch slugs I use in my 12g rifled barrel kicks like a mule so the 405 or 500 would bite worse. I do love lever actions so it's down to 2 a BLR in 30-06 or a Marlin in 45-70.


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45-70 does have the advantage of originally being a black powder cartridge, which means you can load it very light or even use black powder loads for less recoil and still have that big fat slug going downrange. Factory 45-70 ammo is typically made very weak too so you don't even have to reload to get this "advantage". Leverevolution ammo will also help with the rainbow trajectory, though you still won't get anywhere near as flat as 30-06 not that it matters at MA hunting ranges.

 

[Knob Creek]

45-70 does have the advantage of originally being a black powder cartridge, which means you can load it very light or even use black powder loads for less recoil and still have that big fat slug going downrange. Factory 45-70 ammo is typically made very weak too so you don't even have to reload to get this "advantage". Leverevolution ammo will also help with the rainbow trajectory, though you still won't get anywhere near as flat as 30-06 not that it matters at MA hunting ranges.

There are reduced loads using Trail Boss that work well too.

 

[Knob Creek]

According to the 49th Edition "Lyman Reloading Handbook" the 30-06 Springfield can be had in as high as a 220gr. projectile or as low as 110gr. So there is no "uses Generally"

Having loaded the 30-06 up and down for the last 40 years I am aware of the range of bullet weights. If you check around with more noted experts than you and I you would will find that the 150 - 168 gr bullets are considered to be for "General Use". My post was not to preclude the use of a heavier bullet.

 

[Coyote33]

I got a 30-30, I'm looking for something with more power. Love her it's a 1965 Winchester model 94. She is my fines I'm looking for her meaner big sister.

Totally forgot the .444!!!!!

.444 Marlin for black bear


I may even know someone who has one for sale. (A widow of a former friend)

There is also the .450 Marlin, for something different, but I think a more modern cartridge.

 

[jimcor3]

Totally forgot the .444!!!!!

.444 Marlin for black bear


I may even know someone who has one for sale. (A widow of a former friend)

There is also the .450 Marlin, for something different, but I think a more modern cartridge.

I looked into the .444 but no one had one for sale. The ability to reach out to 150 yards with less of a rainbow would be nice. Know what she might be asking for it?

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