44 magnum case head separation. Wow

[DW357]

Well that stinks. Had my first 44 mag case head separation today.
Dan Wesson 744
23.5 gr H110
.431" 240 gr Zero JSP
Remington brass that has been fired many times. Unsure of the amount.

Recoil was normal. Didn’t even know it happened until I was done shooting and the case head was sticking out at an angle.

Any advice for getting the brass removed from the cylinder?? Seems like it’s really in there.

Someone told me to get some compressed air and flip upside down so it freezes the brass and cylinder to help contract the brass. Then use a cleaning brush to knock it out. Going to try that before I use any tools and risk scratching the cylinder.

Was a fun day though! Shot plenty of rounds.

 

[DW357]

The Dan Wesson doesn’t have the smoothest cylinder holes which won’t help extracting the stuck brass.

 

[DW357]

Someone on a reloading Facebook group said the rough chambers caused the separation??

Said the case separated, because it couldn't move in the chamber - back against the gun's frame?

I don’t know about that. This revolver has seen 1500+ rounds with no issues.

I don’t like that the chambers aren’t smooth and have considered sending it back to Dan Wesson for polishing.

 

[greencobra]

if you haven't tried this already, while you're waiting on expert advice, I would put my cleaning rod right on through until the end poked out, screw on an oversized brass brush...45 caliber...and drag it back out and see if the case will come out with it. gonna be snug .452 vs .430. just brain storming.

I've had head separations before but never had the case body stick in the cylinder. hope it comes out easy for you at some point.

 

[DW357]

if you haven't tried this already, while you're waiting on expert advice, I would put my cleaning rod right on through until the end poked out, screw on an oversized brass brush...45 caliber...and drag it back out and see if the case will come out with it. gonna be snug .452 vs .430. just brain storming.

I've had head separations before but never had the case body stick in the cylinder. hope it comes out easy for you at some point.

Compressed air worked! Like buttah!

 

[greencobra]

Compressed air worked! Like buttah!

nice!

 

[Uzi2]

Compressed air worked! Like buttah!
View attachment 253731

Now, spend some money and buy some new Starline brass and toss the old stuff in the scrap bucket.

Also, get those chambers polished a little, they look terrible.

 

[greencobra]

Also, get those chambers polished a little, they look terrible.

only pussy's polish chambers!

 

[Uzi2]

only pussy's polish chambers!

Nah, it makes cleaning easier and in semi auto blowback and gas operated guns it helps the gun function better.

Some people are maniacal about a die scratching a piece of brass.......go figure.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Said the case separated, because it couldn't move in the chamber - back against the gun's frame?

Yes.

There is no other earthly reason that this could happen in a revolver with a non-bottleneck case. The only other time I’ve seen this was in a Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine that I used to own. It had rough chambers too.t

 

[Uzi2]

Yes.

There is no other earthly reason that this could happen in a revolver with a non-bottleneck case. The only other time I’ve seen this was in a Ruger Blackhawk In .30 Carbine that I used to own. It had rough chambers too.

Never knew that Ruger made the Blackhawk in 30 Carbine......that would be a sweet shooter. I've got a Super Blackhawk in 44 mag and love it.

 

[DW357]

Yes.

There is no other earthly reason that this could happen in a revolver with a non-bottleneck case. The only other time I’ve seen this was in a Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine that I used to own. It had rough chambers too.t

Thanks Jim! Sounds like I need to get those chambers polished.

Would the .431" jacketed bullets play a role in this at all? I know the chambers are tight (in addition to being rough) so I wasn’t sure if that would create problems.

 

[DW357]

Now, spend some money and buy some new Starline brass and toss the old stuff in the scrap bucket.

Also, get those chambers polished a little, they look terrible.

They look worse in the photos since it’s dirty. But yes they aren’t smooth. Cases extract just fine. I don’t have to hammer them out. Except this particular case

I bought new starline brass years ago but I also have mixed brass with unknown firings.

 

[DW357]

only pussy's polish chambers!

Bob at Dan Wesson (lead revolver smith) quoted me $40 for polishing if I recall. Might have to send it in. Shipping costs aren’t too bad since they’re in neighboring NY. Cost me $25 to ship my 715 to them earlier this year for an action job.

 

[DW357]

Just dawned on me that this brass gets shot in my Henry 44 rifle. I seem to recall reading that lever guns don’t lock up as tight and flex when shot.

This might another culprit too?...

 

[EddieCoyle]

Can’t you just send the cylinder?

 

[DW357]

Can’t you just send the cylinder?

Yeah probably. Never disassembled my 744 before. My DW 357 is much easier to disassemble.

I would assume they don’t need the entire gun. I’ll have to confirm.

 

[mac1911]

if you get one that's really jammed up you can run a tap into the case. You want the tap just big enough to cut into the case. Once it grabs it will spin the case and you can nock it free. Had a Old POS cheap 38 with a stuck case. It did not help that it was in there for a few years before I got a hold of it.

 

[Eli]

oh I'm a little late but one thing that I have seen work well before in revolvers and rifles is cerrosafe. It'll stick to the case and you can tap it out with a cleaning rod. Ive heard of a few times the compressed air didn't work

 

[DW357]

oh I'm a little late but one thing that I have seen work well before in revolvers and rifles is cerrosafe. It'll stick to the case and you can tap it out with a cleaning rod. Ive heard of a few times the compressed air didn't work

I’ll have to google cerrosafe. Never heard of it.

I think the compressed air works as long as the brass isn’t stuck EXTREMELY bad?

 

[Eli]

Cerrosafe is Brownells chamber casting alloy. It melts at a low temp and is used to measure chamber dimensions and determine caliber on unusual or antiquated guns
You're probably right, it is probably only needed for a really bad stuck case, usually in rifles

 

[NavelOfficer]

if you get one that's really jammed up you can run a tap into the case. You want the tap just big enough to cut into the case. Once it grabs it will spin the case and you can nock it free. Had a Old POS cheap 38 with a stuck case. It did not help that it was in there for a few years before I got a hold of it.

This is the method I generally resort to when a case gets stuck in the sizer dies. Just don't get overly aggressive and tap the cylinder walls...

 

[DW357]

Just don't get overly aggressive and tap the cylinder walls...

Yeah I definitely don't want to make the cylinder walls any worse than they are.

 

[meh]

Just dawned on me that this brass gets shot in my Henry 44 rifle. I seem to recall reading that lever guns don’t lock up as tight and flex when shot.

This might another culprit too?...

Well, not locking up as tight might mean that the bolt travels backwards a hair when the casing pushes back on it during firing. I don't see how that would induce more stress on the casing than a revolver does. But do you mean that the flexure is lateral? I wasn't aware of that sort of thing in general. I have had a case separation of factory Fiocchi .357 Magnum in a Rossi 92, but that one has a chamber that is loosey-goosey near the rim. Looks like they might have polished a conical shape to it to facilitate reliable feeding (indeed, that lever guns seems to feed anything without a hitch). I was also shooting from a rest, and it was positioned in such a way on that shot that recoil popped the lever down on this particular firing. Not sure if that played a role.

 

[DW357]

Well, not locking up as tight might mean that the bolt travels backwards a hair when the casing pushes back on it during firing. I don't see how that would induce more stress on the casing than a revolver does. But do you mean that the flexure is lateral? I wasn't aware of that sort of thing in general. I have had a case separation of factory Fiocchi .357 Magnum in a Rossi 92, but that one has a chamber that is loosey-goosey near the rim. Looks like they might have polished a conical shape to it to facilitate reliable feeding (indeed, that lever guns seems to feed anything without a hitch). I was also shooting from a rest, and it was positioned in such a way on that shot that recoil popped the lever down on this particular firing. Not sure if that played a role.

I guess I meant that the chambers aren't super tight on some lever guns. I need to examine the brass a little closer after I shoot it in the Henry.

 

[meh]

FWIW, I have never observed any issues with my HRA rifles along these lines, and I have looked. OTOH, I don't shoot .357M in that Rossi because the cases bulge slightly near the base at magnum pressures. That can't be good for the brass, even if the resizing die makes it that far (which it only just barely seems to). At .38+P pressures all is well, and I have several thousand pieces of once or twice fired R-P .38 brass, so I don't even care.

 

[DW357]

FWIW, I have never observed any issues with my HRA rifles along these lines, and I have looked. OTOH, I don't shoot .357M in that Rossi because the cases bulge slightly near the base at magnum pressures. That can't be good for the brass, even if the resizing die makes it that far (which it only just barely seems to). At .38+P pressures all is well, and I have several thousand pieces of once or twice fired R-P .38 brass, so I don't even care.

I had that same bulge issue when I had my Henry Big Boy 357 a few years ago (sold the gun 3+ years ago). I actually forgot that I had that problem so I didn't bother to look at my 44 mag brass after it's shot from my Henry. I'll now have to take a closer look.

Just found my 357 case bulge thread from 2013 - pics are long gone however.
.357 magnum brass bulging in Henry Big Boy .357

 

[Eli]

If the cases get bulged at the base like when fired in henry or rossi lever actions it weakens the brass. When the case bulges ad then is resized it leaves the brass a little thinner at where it was bulged. After that every firing will slightly lengthen the case and stretch it out, thinning it little by little. Eventually you can get a case head separation. That might be 2 reloads later or it might be nine. It depends on the brass, chamber, and load

 

[DW357]

If the cases get bulged at the base like when fired in henry or rossi lever actions it weakens the brass. When the case bulges ad then is resized it leaves the brass a little thinner at where it was bulged. After that every firing will slightly lengthen the case and stretch it out, thinning it little by little. Eventually you can get a case head separation. That might be 2 reloads later or it might be nine. It depends on the brass, chamber, and load

Thanks for the info. I think this is what happened. On top of the rough cylinder walls on my 744. Waiting for my RMA # to ship the revolver back to Dan Wesson for honing. Also going to have him look at the action while it’s there.

 

[DW357]

Also, get those chambers polished a little, they look terrible.

Just shipped it back to Dan Wesson today for honing/polishing. Also going to have them look at the action while it’s there.