21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas

weekendracer said:
Even the guys who went in get shat upon here.
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You keep bringing this up, which I understand, but it rings a bit hollow. Sorry to be blunt, but 19 children are dead. ANY adult who could have stopped any of them from dying deserves to be shat upon.

And I'll say it again, from my perspective: good on the guys who went in, but it was too late for an indeterminate number of citizens who died. Who, in this case, also happened to be wounded children doing what they'd been told by their adults: call 911 and The Police will come for you.

Except in this case, they didn't come soon enough. Speaking for myself, NOBODY in that hallway gets a pass on that.
 
Picton said:
You keep bringing this up, which I understand, but it rings a bit hollow. Sorry to be blunt, but 19 children are dead. ANY adult who could have stopped any of them from dying deserves to be shat upon.

And I'll say it again, from my perspective: good on the guys who went in, but it was too late for an indeterminate number of citizens who died. Who, in this case, also happened to be wounded children doing what they'd been told by their adults: call 911 and The Police will come for you.

Except in this case, they didn't come soon enough. Speaking for myself, NOBODY in that hallway gets a pass on that.
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It can 'ring hollow' to you all day. A bunch of people commenting on 'how they woulda done it'. I get the anger at the original group that showed up. I feel it as well. Any respectable LEO is, at best, unhappy about the response. I can't say I would have stood in the doorway taking rounds, but I'd like to think I would have found some way to get his attention off the kids. That, I can definitely say I would do without a doubt.
 
There's people that step up, and there's people that step back. In all aspects of life.
Those that made the wrong decision that day with live with their own consciences.
 
weekendracer said:
It can 'ring hollow' to you all day. A bunch of people commenting on 'how they woulda done it'.
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But this is what you're not getting, at least from me.

I'm not quarterbacking based on "how I woulda done it." I'm quarterbacking based on the PD's own longstanding SOPs. I'm not mad at them because they didn't do what I would have done; I'm mad at them because they didn't do what they should have done. What I know they had trained and drilled to do, expensively, over many years. So all that time and money was wasted, to say nothing of students' lives.

I trust you see the difference. And I know you'll admit I've got a right to be enraged about that.
 
The talking heads news show on CBS this morning showed an active shooter drill at a local NY school. They showed how the kids headed to the back of the room dragging their desks. They piled up the desks and they sat on the floor behind the desks with each kids holding a textbook against their chest or in front of their face.

Really? Is that the best we can do for our kids? Doesn’t seem very promising for those kids if a shooter gets in.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
The talking heads news show on CBS this morning showed an active shooter drill at a local NY school. They showed how the kids headed to the back of the room dragging their desks. They piled up the desks and they sat on the floor behind the desks with each kids holding a textbook against their chest or in front of their face.

Really? Is that the best we can do for our kids? Doesn’t seem very promising for those kids if a shooter gets in.
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It's hard for humans to accept what's right in their faces. The government just doesn't give a damn about you or your kids.
 
Something new started this week on YouTube in the middle of a video was a ad/video from a Sandy Hook mother talking about the gun that took her sons life was an AR-15.. Not sure what was said after that as I shut it off…
 
Dadstoys said:
It was the Dems who shut down all the mental hospitals .
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funding mental health doesn't necessarily mean institutionalizing everyone. Mental hospitals were abusing the shit out of the patients.


In April Abbott cut 211 million for mental health funding in TX. TX rates 50th among the states in access to mental health. You can't blame mental health while simultaneously gutting mental health funding.

If we all agree the driver here is mental health, and it seems we do, then you either fund it or decide to just live with this shit.
 
KBCraig said:
I want neg rep back.

Not for the troll -- I don't pay any attention to him.

I want to neg rep every one of you jackasses that quotes him and argues with him.
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If you don’t like it too bad. Don’t read it. What’s wrong with you? Respond to me, I dare you! I’ll quote you so hard you won’t know what to do.

🤣
 
robjax said:
...

There is a link there and more than likely a plan between all of them.

School Chief had opportunity to know the shooter as he was in the school system, opportunity to know the teacher as she is in the school system and the chief is a political supporter of Beto who has enough money to be able to fund the shooter’s guns and ammo purchases.

Too much of a coincidence to have a secured door propped at the exact same time a guy with a gun shows up.
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The "latest story" is that the teacher propped the door to fetch her phone because she saw the crash and decided to call 911. By the time she heard gunshots (at the funeral home), she took the prop out of the door and closed it behind her, but it didn't lock.

So that's how the propped door coincides with the arrival of the shooter.

As for the rest? Who knows. Certainly not anyone posting here. But the story is changing rapidly, and the absolute truth is already unknowable. Might it be a "plan among all of them?" Sure... but there are probably 30 other more likely explanations.

YMMV.
 
jhblaze1 said:
funding mental health doesn't necessarily mean institutionalizing everyone. Mental hospitals were abusing the shit out of the patients.


In April Abbott cut 211 million for mental health funding in TX. TX rates 50th among the states in access to mental health. You can't blame mental health while simultaneously gutting mental health funding.

If we all agree the driver here is mental health, and it seems we do, then you either fund it or decide to just live with this shit.
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I dunno. Florida staties just bagged two kids who threatened to shoot up schools. FBI did nothing. Had nothing to do with Florida mental health budgets. Lives saved.
 
meh said:
Our we-hate-all-cops contingent can't wrap their heads around the difference between BORTAC and the local cops. To them, a cop is a cop is a cop, so the loitering local cops and BORTAC guys who got there later and went in pretty much ASAP, all the same to them.
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Sorry but in no other profession is it cool to wait and fully assess a situation.

I work at a place with a f*****g massive CLo2 tank. Like would kill half the breathing life in my county if the wind blows wrong.

If that started leaking we wouldn't stand around beating off for an hour. And yes there are specialists we call but the first guys there would triage

Tons of other jobs with more lives at stake don't accept this behavior.

Why would we accept it from the police?
 
safetyfirst2125 said:
My wife said they would have had to put her down or let her through if it had been our kids in there with shots ringing out and cops standing around.

One by one those little lives being snuffed out.

I just can’t imagine the horror of any parent knowing now this could have been prevented.
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Well there was that one lady...
 
Rockrivr1 said:
The talking heads news show on CBS this morning showed an active shooter drill at a local NY school. They showed how the kids headed to the back of the room dragging their desks. They piled up the desks and they sat on the floor behind the desks with each kids holding a textbook against their chest or in front of their face.

Really? Is that the best we can do for our kids? Doesn’t seem very promising for those kids if a shooter gets in.
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As we all learned from homie who had his gf shoot him with a desert eagle. Phone books on the ground good against your chest bad
 
jkelly1229 said:
Sorry but in no other profession is it cool to wait and fully assess a situation.

I work at a place with a f*****g massive CLo2 tank. Like would kill half the breathing life in my county if the wind blows wrong.

If that started leaking we wouldn't stand around beating off for an hour. And yes there are specialists we call but the first guys there would triage

Tons of other jobs with more lives at stake don't accept this behavior.

Why would we accept it from the police?
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My post didn't say anything about waiting to fully assess a situation. I'm only pointing out that the BORTAC guys got there a full 40 minutes after the local cops first engaged the suspect inside the building. The BORTAC guys weren't in charge, and AFAIK they also didn't have the authority to relieve the local cops. I didn't know when I wrote that that it took the BORTAC guys 40 more minutes to act. That's a long time.

However, it seems from the timeline that the local cops entered the building eagerly enough but were completely stymied by a locked door and for whatever reason (including bullets flying through the walls) would not or could not improvise, adapt, and overcome. They just kept stacking up in the hallway inside the building, apparently. One thing I'm wondering is why they didn't go around to the outside windows of the classroom, break them, and start harassing the shooter from that side. Must be a reason. I just don't know it.
 
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Bonesinium said:
How can you tell?
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I know the armor some of them are wearing, I wore it. The rest is simple observation, I wore rifle plates over my soft armor, most people don't, they just wear the hard armor. I know my luck, I'd take a hit outside the hard plate, so I wore my soft as well in case a pistol hit from the side.
 
Picton said:
The "latest story" is that the teacher propped the door to fetch her phone because she saw the crash and decided to call 911. By the time she heard gunshots (at the funeral home), she took the prop out of the door and closed it behind her, but it didn't lock.

So that's how the propped door coincides with the arrival of the shooter.

As for the rest? Who knows. Certainly not anyone posting here. But the story is changing rapidly, and the absolute truth is already unknowable. Might it be a "plan among all of them?" Sure... but there are probably 30 other more likely explanations.

YMMV.
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Do teachers typically leave their phones in their cars?
 
Picton said:
But this is what you're not getting, at least from me.

I'm not quarterbacking based on "how I woulda done it." I'm quarterbacking based on the PD's own longstanding SOPs. I'm not mad at them because they didn't do what I would have done; I'm mad at them because they didn't do what they should have done. What I know they had trained and drilled to do, expensively, over many years. So all that time and money was wasted, to say nothing of students' lives.

I trust you see the difference. And I know you'll admit I've got a right to be enraged about that.
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It's hard for me to sit here and read it as more comes out.

I guess the thing for me is, even the guys who went in aren't 'heroes' to me, they simply did what we trained to do in that situation. I'm waiting to hear how long they held back the tac team before they had enough, from when they were ready to go. There is still a gap in the timeline for that. I know the average agent would have been ripping to get into the school, something had to have been said that held them back. Those guys walk themselves almost to death on SAR out in the desert, I've personally seen a half dozen lifeflights for our own guys at my old station. My wife was a dispatcher for a lifeflight outfit. I'd get texts from her, 'you ok?'. Later on I'd find out another agent went down from heat.

Screw how other people train, it's not how we did it. I don't know if they could have saved more lives, but it's got me about to start screaming at clouds.
 
robjax said:
Anyone who supports the following:

Licensing
Gun bans including full auto
Magazine size limits
Gun control of any kind
Registration
Age restrictions for ownership
Or anything that isn’t defined in 2A

Is a communist.
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So the choice is either communist or retarded? Can’t we have some common sense middle ground? I mean real common sense not the kind democrats use to Push BS laws.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
The talking heads news show on CBS this morning showed an active shooter drill at a local NY school. They showed how the kids headed to the back of the room dragging their desks. They piled up the desks and they sat on the floor behind the desks with each kids holding a textbook against their chest or in front of their face.

Really? Is that the best we can do for our kids? Doesn’t seem very promising for those kids if a shooter gets in.
Click to expand...

well, there was a time when the .gov told us hiding under our desks at school was sufficient protection from a nuclear blast.
 

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