21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas

GaryO said:
In the 20s a 16 year old could go to a hardware store and pick up a Thompson, why weren't there mass shootings by kids then? Iirc it was around 1935 that the government decided to get more involved so I would say 87 years.
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Ya but, that was hoods shooting hoods in Chicago.....Sure stopped that.
 
MaverickNH said:
If LEO training and inter-agency comms was iffy before COVID, depolicing/defunding (and Border surges in TX), it’s so much worse now. With a locked door, the "first on scene entry" rule got short-circuited. We won’t know if command and control was in place and working until there’s an investigation and report.

LEOs may have assigned or defaulted to perimeter control.. A bunch of unarmed parents rushing in has no upside.
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That video might be taken out of context or being pushed to portray something different. I wasn’t there and I don’t have all the details. However, more than likely there were other LEOs in and or around the building trying to pinpoint the shooters location and making breaching plans. It’s a f***ed up situation all around, however having people left and right storm the building as bullets are flying is suicidal at the very least and comes with a plethora of other consequences for the entire situation.
 
www.cnbc.com

Here's how much 2021 winners of Mega Millions and Powerball have forked over in taxes

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www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com

When people go crazy about 'school shootings', here's how many people won the Powerball jackpot in 2021. The number is 5. How many actual 'school shootings' were there in 2021? I don't buy a Ferrari and expect to win the Powerball, just like I don't sweat my kids being involved in a school shooting.
 
Artifact said:
That video might be taken out of context or being pushed to portray something different. I wasn’t there and I don’t have all the details. However, more than likely there were other LEOs in and or around the building trying to pinpoint the shooters location and making breaching plans. It’s a f***ed up situation all around, however having people left and right storm the building as bullets are flying is suicidal.
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It's a really good way to end up with a lot of dead cops or good Samaritans.
 
robjax said:
I wasn’t there. I do not know exactly what happened at this point.

I doubt a 2:20 video explains the whole situation.

If I have to speculate I would guess by the time this video was taken those children and teachers were most likely already dead and the gunman was either dead or contained to that room.
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Chances are that classroom got quiet in less than 60 seconds.
 
Artifact said:
Chances are that classroom got quiet in less than 60 seconds.
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Ok, this is where I'm at. If this wasn't a targeted attack, why was the damage contained to just one room? If the parents are correct and this went on for 60-90 minutes, why did the shooter stay in one classroom? Something simply doesn't add up, either the shooter was pinned in the room by LEO's, and it could justifiably be considered a barricaded subject, which would initiate a different protocol than active shooter, or it was over a lot quicker than they are saying.

I could see the initial cops making sure he stayed in the one room if there was only one or two cops initially. Pistols vs rifles isn't a great situation to walk into, even wearing hard armor. Just speculating, I obviously wasn't there, trying to wrap my head around it all.
 
safetyfirst2125 said:

View: https://twitter.com/kerpen/status/1529658179856080897?s=21&t=RmXAMZh7V0MbsgmfLn_afw
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Begs the question....if you have to wait for an actual tac unit for these situations. The game is over by the time they get there.

WTF good are the cops if they are just going to wait outside and not do anything but keep parents outside?

Its like me waiting for my whole part time fire department to assemble from their other jobs, while my house is burning down......no point in actually having them.
The house is burnt by the time they get there, all they are doing is dousing a burnt foundation.

That's fairly useless in my opinon and it starting to smell like it might have been protocol for what happened here.....

In this day and age for larger towns and cities not to have a trained, immediate, direct police (first one on the scene) response to a school situation is inexcusable.

In these situations officer safety.....is not an option.

Long response time waiting for a tac unit.........not an option.
 
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paul73 said:
cops were told to secure the perimeter and it is exactly what they did. somebody made the decision not to storm in, may be press will find out, eventually, of who and why.
all in all - who lives or dies is not important, the civil order is the only thing important, and the civil order was maintained. as typical f#ckery as always.
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Unruly parents wanting their kids: unacceptable
20 dead kids: acceptable
 
The major difference on the ground, so to speak, is that you can't escape the NICS check in the gun store by having a permit
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I know you were talking about MA, but ...

Some state permits qualify for a NICS exemption for purchased made in the state in which this permit was issued.

MA FIDs and LTCs are not recognized as NICS equivalents.
 
GaryO said:
In the 20s a 16 year old could go to a hardware store and pick up a Thompson, why weren't there mass shootings by kids then? Iirc it was around 1935 that the government decided to get more involved so I would say 87 years.
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More parents actually monitored and raised their children back then. It's a much different world today. We've seen an explosion lately of grandparents raising their grandkids today. A lot more children simply don't have the guidance and discipline that used to occur back in the day.
 
G4Y4HK said:
In practice, Biden is still wrong- the second amendment is NOT absolute. If it were, I should be able to buy a select fire HK MP7, get all the 'high' capacity mags I want off the shelf of the gun shop, pick the suppressor I want, ring it up at the register, walk out the door with it and have it slung on my back and legally carry it through Times Square without getting hassled.
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FIFY
Just because such laws do exist now does not mean they should exist.
 
meh said:
Massachusetts allows FTF between permit holders without a 4473 and without a NICS check, at least without a prerequisite NICS check. I've heard somewhere around here that they are supposed to conduct those checks after-the-fact when you transfer through the portal, though I really wouldn't know if they actually do or not. The major difference on the ground, so to speak, is that you can't escape the NICS check in the gun store by having a permit. Clearly the argument they are making in Georgia is that because you are a permit holder, you can fill out the 4473 and be done with it because you've already been checked. Not sure whether what the Dems propose for UBCs would exclude that or not. It's not really at issue.

The question was whether Pelosi2's (Clark's) numbers might be more or less correct. Pelosi2's numbers were 83% of gunowners and 74% of Republicans. A gunowner is anybody who owns a gun, including a great many people who have never bought one and including a sizeable percentage of Democrats, especially in the South. 74% of Republicans likewise would include people who have never even bought a gun and not a few that don't even own one. Almost certainly the numbers are different in Georgia because blue states are offsetting. I'm just not seeing any reason to doubt those numbers. The other point I was making is that I don't think UBCs will make a difference because I can't remember the last mass shooter who fits the bill of having purchased their firearms FTF without a NICS check. Almost always they obtained their guns from an FFL in a legal fashion. Sometimes they should have been denied but weren't. Sometimes they got their guns from the household. I think that terrorist couple from California did a straw purchase. Stuff like that I remember. I'm just not remembering any mass shooters who bought their AR from bubba down the street in a legal FTF transaction.
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Regarding the bolded above and just clarifying your statement: Yes you can, depending on what state you live in. I've yet to be subjected to a NICS check when purchasing a firearm in Kentucky. ( lived here 10 years).

Although I do not need a carry permit, ( we have permit less constitutional carry, open or concealed) I maintain one for possible out of state travel purposes and that permit eliminates any need for me to be subjected to a NICS check when purchasing a firearm from an FFL here in this state.
 
GaryO said:
In the 20s a 16 year old could go to a hardware store and pick up a Thompson, why weren't there mass shootings by kids then? Iirc it was around 1935 that the government decided to get more involved so I would say 87 years.
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mood altering prescription drugs. Parents don't want to take any responsibility for their kids if they show any signs of being different or out of 'norm'.
They are pumped full of Ritalin, Xanax, Valium and whatever they can convince their Pediatric doc to provide.
 
The problem is that we have homicidal maniacs among us. Removing guns doesn’t fix that problem - there are other ways homicidal maniacs can murder unprotected children. And why we do we have homicidal maniacs? What is the cause?

It’s reminiscent to me of the guns and suicide problem. Removing guns still leaves us with large numbers of suicidal people. Whether they could or could not find other avenues to commit suicide is not the point (to me). Why do we have so many suicidal people?

Combining these issues with our reliance of depression medicines, mental health issues, drug addictions, etc. it seems that we, as a culture, have taken a wrong turn somewhere. That addressing each of these issues (gun violence, depression, drug addiction,etc) individually only exacerbates the underlying issue by masking and hiding the symptoms.
 
Win said:
The problem is that we have homicidal maniacs among us. Removing guns doesn’t fix that problem - there are other ways homicidal maniacs can murder unprotected children. And why we do we have homicidal maniacs? What is the cause?

It’s reminiscent to me of the guns and suicide problem. Removing guns still leaves us with large numbers of suicidal people. Whether they could or could not find other avenues to commit suicide is not the point (to me). Why do we have so many suicidal people?

Combining these issues with our reliance of depression medicines, mental health issues, drug addictions, etc. it seems that we, as a culture, have taken a wrong turn somewhere. That addressing each of these issues (gun violence, depression, drug addiction,etc) individually only exacerbates the underlying issue by masking and hiding the symptoms.
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The problem is that we have homicidal maniacs among us. Removing guns doesn’t fix that problem - Mic Drop.
 
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weekendracer said:
Ok, this is where I'm at. If this wasn't a targeted attack, why was the damage contained to just one room? If the parents are correct and this went on for 60-90 minutes, why did the shooter stay in one classroom? Something simply doesn't add up, either the shooter was pinned in the room by LEO's, and it could justifiably be considered a barricaded subject, which would initiate a different protocol than active shooter, or it was over a lot quicker than they are saying.

I could see the initial cops making sure he stayed in the one room if there was only one or two cops initially. Pistols vs rifles isn't a great situation to walk into, even wearing hard armor. Just speculating, I obviously wasn't there, trying to wrap my head around it all.
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I am going with the later. In situations like this there are many unknowns. From the breaching team prospective ( let’s say I am pretty familiar with) there are many elements.

1. Number of perpetrators
2. Type of gear and or firearms
3. How many civies/victims are inside
4. Status
5. Breaching entrance
6. Most likely location of the perpetrator/s based on the rooms/building description
7. Are there any potential explosives used to rig entrance….

The list goes on and on and these decisions need to be made on “accurately” and fast.

Personal opinion of how this potentially unfolded once he entered the classroom.

The c***, enters classroom, screaming and yelling panicking and twitchy. Kids freak out and start screaming and crying. Commotion, panic and terror overtakes the entire classroom. Bad guy empties his mags, all that under 60 seconds. The entire school panics from the noise, screaming and repeating gun shots.

Let’s call them breaching team, enters school trying to pinpoint the whereabouts of the perpetrator/s. They link up with “whoever” I.e, initial responding officers/principal etc…at the school trying to get their bearing on the overall situation.

Door locked from inside doesn’t allow for hasty breaching. Also, the fact that the perpetrator shot through the walls based on what was reported. Too many conflicting info to make an assessment.

From what I am hearing, they did make some viable moves based on the situation.

You also have “f*** it” let’s roll with the punches scenarios too.

It’s very unfortunate we lost the kids, however this c*** had plenty of ammo to do more damage and take more lives.
 
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