-

[peteyb]

-

 

[GSG]

If HiPoint doesn't make ship the gun to distributors with high cap mags from the factory, it's FID compliant. I live in a free state and that's how they're shipped, so my guess is that's the case, but the only way to be sure would be to check the companies website, or maybe a distributors website or two.

Also check out this thread.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...ice-on-Mag-Rifles-that-are-Mass-FID-Compliant

 

[whatluck]

Ruger Mini-14 is a great choice. You can get it in .223 and also (I think) 7.62x39. FID ok. Can find em used for about $500. Good luck!

 

[Kevlar]

Wecome to NES peteyb!

GSG is right, if it doesn't ship from the manufacturer (to ANY state) with a magazine in excess of 10 rounds, it is FID compliant.

Partial list (~$500 or less) from my post in the thread GSG linked to...

Ruger Mini-14
Ruger Mini-30
WASR-10 (single stack)
Hi-Point 995
SKS

Ruger Mini-14 is a great choice. You can get it in .223 and also (I think) 7.62x39. FID ok. Can find em used for about $500. Good luck!

The 7.62x39 version is the Mini-30

 

[GSG]

Also check out this thread.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...ice-on-Mag-Rifles-that-are-Mass-FID-Compliant

Check out the link I posted on page 5 of this thread (it's also in my sigline, regarding people with FID cards). If you're stuck with an FID, you may unknowingly be breaking the law by buying guns.

 

[peteyb]

Thanks alot you guys +rep for all of you.

@GSG and Kevlar - Thanks a ton. I always thought that if you could buy an aftermarket hi-cap magazine from any manufacturer for a rifle, that the rifle is considered high-capacity. From what I'm understanding, a rifle is only high-capacity if the "oringinal manufacturer" (as in the company that manufactures the gun) sells the rifle with a hi-cap mag. If the original manufacturer (in this case Hi-Point) does not sell a mag over 10 rounds, then it is considered FID-Compliant, correct?

I'm just trying to make certain that if I purchase the Hi-Point 995TS in 9mm that I will be 100% legal with a Mass. FID Card. Like GSG said in his thread, it is very easy to be breaking the law with an FID card and not even know it. By the way thanks for the great info in the thread you posted on FID laws, GSG. I have never been in trouble for anything police realted so it should not apply to me, but those are very good things to know. I will keep them in mind and pass them along to some of my friends.

So from what I understand, both the stock SKS and the Hi-Point 995TS are Mass FID-Compliant. Do either of you have any opinions on these guns as to which one is better, more reliable. I am only planning on using the rifle as a target shooter at my local range, not considering for a home defense weapon.

PS - This may sound kind of stupid, but when they say that a high-capacity rifle holds more than 10 rounds, does that include the chamber. As in, if a rifle has 10 rounds in its magazine, and can hold one round in the chamber, does that technically make it an 11-round rifle?

Thanks again for all your help. I appreciate it.

 

[Len-2A Training]

No, the chamber doesn't count. It's the capacity of a magazine that must be 10 or less for FID compliance.

Also just wanted to clarify something in this phrase in your OP:

wanted to make sure that it would be legal for me to buy/carry this rifle with an MA FID card

MGLs prohibit any "carrying" of a loaded (or in fact uncased) long gun on a public way. So rifles must be only loaded on your own land, or on a range, or while hunting (but not uncased or loaded while crossing any "public way"). This is true regardless of what type of license you possess.

 

[GSG]

@GSG and Kevlar - Thanks a ton. I always thought that if you could buy an aftermarket hi-cap magazine from any manufacturer for a rifle, that the rifle is considered high-capacity. From what I'm understanding, a rifle is only high-capacity if the "oringinal manufacturer" (as in the company that manufactures the gun) sells the rifle with a hi-cap mag. If the original manufacturer (in this case Hi-Point) does not sell a mag over 10 rounds, then it is considered FID-Compliant, correct?

Sort of. For Mass. legal purposes, if the gun has ever been shipped by the manufacturer to non-LE/military in the US with a high cap mag (more than 10 rounds), then it's considered "large capacity," making it not FID compliant. That means that the mag was shipped with the gun by the manufacturer. It doesn't matter if they make a high cap magazine that they sell separate from the gun.

For instance, the KelTec P-11 pistol is shipped with a 10 round mag, even to free states in the US. KelTec sells a 12 round flush fitting P-11 magazine on their website, but they don't ship it with the gun to anyone in the US, so the gun isn't "large capacity" in Mass. (although it's important to note, if you have a high cap mag in the gun, it automatically becomes large capacity, even if it wasn't ever shipped with one). KelTec mags aren't even made by KelTec for that matter, they're made by MecGar for KelTec, but that has nothing to do with your questions.

Like GSG said in his thread, it is very easy to be breaking the law with an FID card and not even know it. By the way thanks for the great info in the thread you posted on FID laws, GSG. I have never been in trouble for anything police realted so it should not apply to me, but those are very good things to know. I will keep them in mind and pass them along to some of my friends.

Check out the "Little known gun law violations" thread in my sigline if you really want to make your head spin. Conviction for violation of any one of those will cost you your Mass. LTC for life and make you lose your FID for 5 years.

So from what I understand, both the stock SKS and the Hi-Point 995TS are Mass FID-Compliant.

The HiPoint, yes. I'm not an SKS guy, but if the others say it's OK, then I trust them.

Something else to keep in mind. Just because the gun is legal doesn't mean that a gunshop will sell it to you if you have an FID. Some FFL's in Mass. are so afraid of the laws that they make up new ones in their head to follow. This is why some won't sell an FID holder a Ruger 10/22 or other similar BS. So if you're going to order one, make it clear to the FFL that you have an FID, it is legal for you to buy and own, and confirm that they will sell it to you. You don't want to pay for it, come back to pick up the gun and have them refuse the sale or other similar drama.

 

[peteyb]

Ok thanks GSG. I think I understand now. A rifle is only considered high-capacity if they sell the gun WITH a hi-cap mag, not as an additional accessory. Wow, I just looked at the first paragraph or so of your little known gun law violations thread and my heads already spinning. I'm gonna finish up reading the whole thread right after I post this.

I trust you when you say that the Hi-Point 995Ts is 100% legal for a Mass. FID Card holder. I have heard others say that the SKS is also FID-Compliant, but noone from this site has said such a thing, so I will wait for another reputable member on this forum to say so before I even consider (The others that said the SKS was legal for FID holders were on a different forum and took several days to even respond to my question. Thanks to GSG, Kevlar, LenS, and whatluck for getting back to me so quickly).

I have also heard that buying guns with an FID can be a problem as well, so I will make sure that the FFL (or gun-store owner if I can find a Mass. store that sells the 995) is aware that I only have an FID and not an LTC. I was also trying to be careful to aviod the opposite of what you said. As in, a gun shop or FFL will sell me a gun with an FID card, even though it is not legal for me to possess such a rifle. Now that you have confirmed that the 995TS is legal for an FID holder, I will have to defitinitely make sure that they will sell the gun to me, cuz as you said, I don't want to pay for an FFL to transfer me a gun only to have them deny me the sale when I go to pick it up. Thanks for all the help, hopefully someone on this site knows 100% whether the SKS is also Mass. FID-Compliant, and then I can decide on whether to go with the SKS or the 995TS. I also need to find a gun store in Mass. where I can go and buy one of these 2 rifles, cuz I am trying to avoid the charge of having an FFL transfer a gun to me through an online store. Thanks again.

 

[Kevlar]

From what I'm understanding, a rifle is only high-capacity if the "oringinal manufacturer" (as in the company that manufactures the gun) sells the rifle with a hi-cap mag.

Correct, and GSG elaborated above.

Like GSG said in his thread, it is very easy to be breaking the law with an FID card and not even know it.

Yup.

So from what I understand, both the stock SKS and the Hi-Point 995TS are Mass FID-Compliant.

The 995 is definitely FID compliant, as are SKSs with the 10 round internal (non-detachable) magazine.

Do either of you have any opinions on these guns as to which one is better, more reliable. I am only planning on using the rifle as a target shooter at my local range, not considering for a home defense weapon.

My advice, save up another ~$100, and get them both!

 

[peteyb]

Thanks alot for all your help guys. Will give more rep later, over the limit for today so will have to wait till tomorrow.

Ok, so since both the 995Ts and SKS rifles are definitely 100% Mass. FID Compliant, I think I'm gonna go ahead and buy the 995TS, get used to shooting it, and two weeks or so go ahead and get the SKS (fixed mag only, as Kevlar said only the "non-detachable" clip) as well. Then once I start gettin a little bored I can go ahead and put on a red dot sight and a vertical grip for the 995TS (going to leave the SKS stock as I've heard bad things about aftermarket parts for this rifle).

Any of you guys have any suggestions on where to get the 995TS, either a local MA store or an online website? I would prefer an MA store as I would not have to deal with a FFL dealer and have them receive the gun for me from a website, and then go and get the gun from them (and be charged a fee). Looking to get the 995TS for around 250 - 300, depending since I know certain places sell the rifle with red dot, grip, or both included.

And Kevlar, may I ask where you purchase your guns from? From what I've seen it will cost about 525-550 for both of these rifles (about 275 for 995TS with red dot, and around 250-275 for SKS), which I don't mind paying. However, you said to save up an extra 100 and get them both. Just wondering if you know some place where I can get dicounts for buying more than one rifle at a time or something? Cheapest prices I found were $250 for 995TS with Red Dot sight on cheaperthandirt.com and 268 for 995TS with red dot on Ables (not including tax, shipping, or FFL fees).

Also, since I was plainning on getting the 995TS in 9mm, do you think I'm gonna have a hard time buying ammo for this rifle, since 9mm is pistol ammo and you have to be 21 to buy pistol ammo? I'm assuming that if I explain to them that I own a 9mm Carbine that they should sell me the ammo. I am only planning on buying in bulk, but the cheapest 9mm rounds I can find are the Winchester White Box Value Pack 100rounds for around 24$ at Walmart. If I can find a bigger value pack, for less money per bullet I am willing to buy, just need to make sure they will sell to FID holders.

 

[Kevlar]

Any of you guys have any suggestions on where to get the 995TS, either a local MA store or an online website? I would prefer an MA store as I would not have to deal with a FFL dealer and have them receive the gun for me from a website, and then go and get the gun from them (and be charged a fee). Looking to get the 995TS for around 250 - 300, depending since I know certain places sell the rifle with red dot, grip, or both included.

I would start by visiting all of your local gun shops, you may find what you want. If not, there's always the auction sites or any number of online retailers.

And Kevlar, may I ask where you purchase your guns from? From what I've seen it will cost about 525-550 for both of these rifles (about 275 for 995TS with red dot, and around 250-275 for SKS), which I don't mind paying. However, you said to save up an extra 100 and get them both. Just wondering if you know some place where I can get dicounts for buying more than one rifle at a time or something? Cheapest prices I found were $250 for 995TS with Red Dot sight on cheaperthandirt.com and 268 for 995TS with red dot on Ables (not including tax, shipping, or FFL fees).

I don't know of any place in particular. I was speaking in generalities, and using approximately the same math you are.

Also, since I was plainning on getting the 995TS in 9mm, do you think I'm gonna have a hard time buying ammo for this rifle, since 9mm is pistol ammo and you have to be 21 to buy pistol ammo? I'm assuming that if I explain to them that I own a 9mm Carbine that they should sell me the ammo. I am only planning on buying in bulk, but the cheapest 9mm rounds I can find are the Winchester White Box Value Pack 100rounds for around 24$ at Walmart. If I can find a bigger value pack, for less money per bullet I am willing to buy, just need to make sure they will sell to FID holders.

It's not specifically "pistol ammo". There are pistol caliber carbines, just as there are rifle caliber pistols. The key is (especially at Wal-Mart) to answer (truthfully) "No" when asked "is this for a handgun?".

 

[OnTheRoad]

So from what I understand, both the stock SKS and the Hi-Point 995TS are Mass FID-Compliant. Do either of you have any opinions on these guns as to which one is better, more reliable.

Once upon a time I had a 995 and an SKS.

Now I have no 995 and 6 SKS's.

 

[peteyb]

Thanks alot Kevlar,

I'm gonna try and check all the local shops with an hour or so from where I live. If I don't find anything I guess I'll have to try and look for an online shop.

I figured that since I am buying 9mm rounds for a rifle that I should have no problem. I mean, its not like I'm lying, all I have to do is tell the truth and say that I am buying the rounds for my 9mm carbine.

Even if my local Walmart wont sell me 9mm rounds, I'm sure I'll pass penty of other Wallmarts that I can try to buy ammo at on my way to the gun shops near me (since Wallmart's the cheapest place I've found 9mm ammo, Winchester White Box 100count for around $24).

The problem is that the nearest gunshop is Four Seasons Firearms, in Woburn MA, and thats about an hour and 15 from where I reside, but I guess its worth the trip. If they don't have what I need I guess I'll have to look at smaller shops near there, but from my research the most likely shop to have what I am interested in is Four Seasons. Not too sure where else to try if they don't have what I need but I'll have to figure that when the time comes. I'm really trying to avoid ordering online and paying shipping/FFL fees.

Now, you are 100% SURE that the 995TS Carbine is legal for me to buy and carry (as long as it is an appropriate manner) with an FID Card. I would hate to think that I went through all this trouble to follow the strict gun laws of Mass. just to find out that the rifle I just bought is not even legal for me to carry with an FID Card.

Thanks again. Really appreciate it.

EDIT - Thanks for your input OnTheRoad. Your post is really making me consider whether or not to buy the 995TS or the SKS. Gotta lot of considering to do. +rep to you as well

 

[Kevlar]

I'm as sure that the 995 and SKS are FID compliant, as I am that the 10/22 is FID compliant (100%). However, I am also 100% sure that there are FFLs who refuse to sell 10/22s to FID holders. Point being, that regardless of what I or anyone else says, the final arbiter is the FFL. As GSG said...

make it clear to the FFL that you have an FID, it is legal for you to buy and own, and confirm that they will sell it to you.

 

[MassMark]

Petey - welcome to the forum. Sage advice here. I think OTR makes a good point with the SKS, though people seem to like those HiPoints. I'd start with a 10/22 and an SKS if it were me. It's gets you in the game cheaply and gives you the ability to literally "plink" for an afternoon on the cost of .22LR ammunition, (about 20-bucks or under for 500-rounds). The 9mm carbine is neat, but not cheap to shoot at all, (about $24.00 a hundred). Whatever you decide - congrats!

 

[Mike-Mike]

Petey - welcome to the forum. Sage advice here. I think OTR makes a good point with the SKS, though people seem to like those HiPoints. I'd start with a 10/22 and an SKS if it were me. It's gets you in the game cheaply and gives you the ability to literally "plink" for an afternoon on the cost of .22LR ammunition, (about 20-bucks or under for 500-rounds). The 9mm carbine is neat, but not cheap to shoot at all, (about $24.00 a hundred). Whatever you decide - congrats!

Good advise, Then get an M1 Garand - Great FID gun.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Wal-Mart almost certainly won't sell you 9mm in MA. Worth a try, but don't be surprised if they tell you "sorry, that is pistol ammo!!" and you have to be 21 to buy it. That's one of the problems with WM and Dicks . . . most of the clerks know nothing about guns and only do what they are told, can't think for themselves.

Ruger 10/22s are only shipped with 10 rd mags, period . . . all hi-cap mags for that gun are made by 3rd-parties. I was in Dicks in Attleboro and in W. Roxbury/Dedham Mall and saw two on the rack . . . the SS one had a second hang tag on it saying "high capacity", implying that they wouldn't sell that one to anyone with an FID. It'd be laughable if it wasn't so stupid and aggravating to folks like yourself. I'm guessing that they would sell the blued 10/22 to someone with an FID, since it wasn't marked "high capacity"! [NOTE: I don't recall which of the two stores I saw this in, but it was ~1 month ago.]

I'd make some phone calls to the various dealers around you to see if they have the gun you want before trekking out on a search mission. Also ask if they will sell it (and ammo) to you (get a name if the answer is "yes") to avoid problems when you show up.

Good luck and good luck at MMA.

 

[Jose]

I would rather pick up a high quality rifle than some el-cheapo.

US M1 rifle or a Marlin lever action in either .30-30 or .357 Magnum would be my picks.

 

[KMaurer]

Worrying about whether the manufacturer or somebody else sells a large cap magazine, or whether the round in the chamber counts is all a waste of time. Those are the criteria that go into determining whether the rifle is considered to be large capacity or not, but the actual decision is done by EOPS, not you or the dealer. To find out what rifles a Massachusetts dealer can't legally sell you with only an FID, see the large capacity firearm list on-line here.

Ken

 

[peteyb]

Thanks LenS, appreciate it. I'll keep what you said in mind.

Thanks MassMark, I've considered getting a 10/22 but I was hoping to get something in a larger caliber. I thought that the 9mm round was the cheapest round available (aside from 22LR), but I'll have to take another look around and see what else I can find.

And Mike-Mike, I was orginally interested in an M1 Garand, however I was unable to find one locally, and found the ammo to be pretty expensive. I've been looking for an M1 for a while, and if I happen to find one I'm definitely gonna buy it. If I cant find one in the next few weeks though, I think I am just gonna get the SKS carbine (if I can find one)

 

[bolt]

If your getting the SKS, as I would too, having had quite a few. Do some research, there are many different types! Avoid the chinese 'blonde' stocks. Like most AK variations, there are many SKS variations. See if you can find a dedicated SKS forum// 2-300 depending on quality and model. I recall them @ 69.99 NIB. Plus the ammo is plentiful and JMO.......I'd keep it simple. All the addons are for a SKS......., not a REM700 Target.<sarcsam>

 

[bolt]

_delete_

 

[jar]

If you're getting an M1 Garand, get it from the CMP. $617.95 for a service grade shipped right to your door. www.thecmp.org.

I also like Jose's suggestion of the lever gun. A Savage bolt gun in 223 or 308 would be another good FID choice.

 

[NFAVT]

As far as semi auto rifles go, we will sell Ruger Mini rifles, that came with a 5 rd mag.; Ruger 10-22's, Hipoint rifles that came with lo cap mags; SKS rifles with fixed 10 rd mags; Garands; 10 round Dragunovs; and other lo cap rifles that I just can't think of right now to FID holders. We don't see too many FID holders come in but we certainly try to keep an assortment of guns in stock for them.

 

[spider murphy]

In regards to the mini 14, if the factory offers 20 rd mags(they do), doesn't that mean that mini 14s do not qualify as FID compliant? I was under the impression that if high cap mags are made by the factory for the model it was a no go. I see alot of recommendations for the mini 14 in FID compliance threads and don't want anyone to get burned.

 

[vellnueve]

In regards to the mini 14, if the factory offers 20 rd mags(they do), doesn't that mean that mini 14s do not qualify as FID compliant? I was under the impression that if high cap mags are made by the factory for the model it was a no go. I see alot of recommendations for the mini 14 in FID compliance threads and don't want anyone to get burned.

The Mini-14 is FID compliant.

 

[GSG]

Also, since I was plainning on getting the 995TS in 9mm, do you think I'm gonna have a hard time buying ammo for this rifle, since 9mm is pistol ammo and you have to be 21 to buy pistol ammo? I'm assuming that if I explain to them that I own a 9mm Carbine that they should sell me the ammo. I am only planning on buying in bulk, but the cheapest 9mm rounds I can find are the Winchester White Box Value Pack 100rounds for around 24$ at Walmart. If I can find a bigger value pack, for less money per bullet I am willing to buy, just need to make sure they will sell to FID holders.

It's not specifically "pistol ammo". There are pistol caliber carbines, just as there are rifle caliber pistols. The key is (especially at Wal-Mart) to answer (truthfully) "No" when asked "is this for a handgun?".

I figured that since I am buying 9mm rounds for a rifle that I should have no problem. I mean, its not like I'm lying, all I have to do is tell the truth and say that I am buying the rounds for my 9mm carbine.

Even if my local Walmart wont sell me 9mm rounds, I'm sure I'll pass penty of other Wallmarts that I can try to buy ammo at on my way to the gun shops near me (since Wallmart's the cheapest place I've found 9mm ammo, Winchester White Box 100count for around $24).

Wal-Mart almost certainly won't sell you 9mm in MA. Worth a try, but don't be surprised if they tell you "sorry, that is pistol ammo!!" and you have to be 21 to buy it. That's one of the problems with WM and Dicks . . . most of the clerks know nothing about guns and only do what they are told, can't think for themselves.

It is 100% legal for a rifle owner/user who is over 18 but under 21 to buy 9mm ammo from an FFL. The issue is that they cannot sell you ammo that is for a handgun. Just about every "pistol" caliber has some kind of rifle or carbine made that will shoot it, and vice versa. So FFL's are told to ask reasonable questions to determine if the ammo is to be used in a handgun or a long gun. You could expect questions about what make and model gun it's for, or perhaps even be asked to show them the gun.

With that said, I agree with LenS, most FFL's wouldn't want to risk getting in trouble (real or imagined) for selling "pistol" ammo to someone under 21 in MA, unless it's .22 ammo, which is widely recognized as common for rifles. Anything else would probably raise eyebrows and raise suspicions. If you really want to try it though your best bet would be to buy it from whatever FFL you get the gun from, since that should lift the liability on their end.

One more thing, it's not legal for a non-dealer to sell ammo FTF in MA, so if you can't find a Mass. FFL to sell you any, you'd have to try your luck out of state in FTF or FFL sales.

Now, you are 100% SURE that the 995TS Carbine is legal for me to buy and carry (as long as it is an appropriate manner) with an FID Card. I would hate to think that I went through all this trouble to follow the strict gun laws of Mass. just to find out that the rifle I just bought is not even legal for me to carry with an FID Card.

Your use of the word "carry" sets off alarm bells in my legal mind. Check back to what LenS said in post #7 of this thread; there are very few circumstances where it is legal to carry a rifle in MA with an FID, and most of them are inside your own home. Not to mention, IMO it would be a lot easier to stick you with one of those whacky hunting regulations found in my LTC DQ thread (also in my sigline) if you had a long gun as opposed to a handgun, since long guns get more hunting use.

If you're not sure about areas of law ask, but carrying a gun is very tightly regulated in MA, even with long guns, so ask first before you do something that's possibly illegal.

Worrying about whether the manufacturer or somebody else sells a large cap magazine, or whether the round in the chamber counts is all a waste of time. Those are the criteria that go into determining whether the rifle is considered to be large capacity or not, but the actual decision is done by EOPS, not you or the dealer. To find out what rifles a Massachusetts dealer can't legally sell you with only an FID, see the large capacity firearm list on-line here.

Ken

The problem is that their list isn't all-inclusive.

In regards to the mini 14, if the factory offers 20 rd mags(they do), doesn't that mean that mini 14s do not qualify as FID compliant? I was under the impression that if high cap mags are made by the factory for the model it was a no go. I see alot of recommendations for the mini 14 in FID compliance threads and don't want anyone to get burned.

See post #8 in this thread.

 

[spider murphy]

"Sort of. For Mass. legal purposes, if the gun has ever been shipped by the manufacturer to non-LE/military in the US with a high cap mag (more than 10 rounds), then it's considered "large capacity," making it not FID compliant. That means that the mag was shipped with the gun by the manufacturer. It doesn't matter if they make a high cap magazine that they sell separate from the gun."

That was my concern; that some minis are shipped with a 20 rd mag. Are you saying that if one buys the package that is shipped with the 5 rd mag, even though the same rifle is also shipped with a 20 rd mag(comes with the rifle), that it's good to go for an FID holder. Does the different model number make the difference even if the only difference is mag capacity ? Sorry for my confusion.

 

[KMaurer]

Worrying about whether the manufacturer or somebody else sells a large cap magazine, or whether the round in the chamber counts is all a waste of time. Those are the criteria that go into determining whether the rifle is considered to be large capacity or not, but the actual decision is done by EOPS, not you or the dealer. To find out what rifles a Massachusetts dealer can't legally sell you with only an FID, see the large capacity firearm list on-line here.

Ken

The problem is that their list isn't all-inclusive.

Wrong. Their list is the law. They, not a bunch of shooters on the internet, were designated to determine what guns are to be considered as large capacity for legal purposes. If it's included on the list, then it's legally considered to be large capacity no matter what we in our infinite wisdom might decide. If it's not on the list, then it isn't legally large capacity.

Ken