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“Suicide and Guns” Ploy Funded by Top Anti-Gun Groups
- Thread starter Boghog1
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In Japan the suicide rate is slightly higher than the US average, but there are basically no firearms in circulation. I don't think that removing firearms from our country would make any difference, people can and do use other means to this same end :-(
Anyone seen the vid where the Japanese dude tries to off himself by strapping firecrackers to his stomach?? LOL he failed soooo miserably but watching him dance around with severe burns was funny ( i don't really think it was a suicide attempt, just stupidity at it's finest.).
. Suicide is a really serious subject. No one would willingly or knowingly supply someone with means to commit suicide.
. Suicide is a really serious subject. No one would willingly or knowingly supply someone with means to commit suicide.
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groundscrapers
NES Member
speaking of japan... this place is a trip.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/02/vbs.suicide.forest/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/02/vbs.suicide.forest/index.html
This isn't particularly nefarious and not a reason to get one's panties in a bunch. The Connect Project is an apparently legitimate suicide prevention organization. There's nothing on their web-site that suggests an anti-2A agenda and other than this initiative they don't really have much to say about guns.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
No, in fact Obama was just talking about building more of those murderous monstrosities this week!
Stop the bridge/road/building before it kills again. If we can save even one life, it will all be worth it... Construction-control saves lives.
Rope, wire, bricks, knives, tailpipes, traffic, plastic bags, carnivorous animals, trips to the desert, swimming, alcohol, matches, gasoline.........
I don't see any thing on the poster anti-gun or anti-2A. I would have to agree entirely with the message the posters message. I know If one of my friends or family members had suicidal tendencies, I would try to keep his/her firearms away for a while.
J
Jose
What else would you take away from them?
Would you take the keys to their car? Would you take every inch of rope or strap strong enough to hold their weight? Every poisonous chemical and prescription medicine they have?
Or just guns?
Like someone else pointed out, it could be rope too. I lost my younger brother(41 yrs old), last direst family member, to a gunshot suicide this past April. Still pissed at him for doing that to a hobby we both enjoyed so much. Three weeeks later my cousin was so depreessed by his death, as well as other events he hung himself. 50/50 toss do we regulate ropes or guns. Either is just a tool and a means to an end.
MisterHappy
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As soon as air-permeable bubble wrap is invented, we'll all be required to be wrapped in it, 24/7. It's the only way to be sure....
OffshoreJ:2042308 said:
At the risk of having an unpopular opinion.
Isn't how you live your life, including how you end it, the most fundamental of rights? I am not making light of someone committing suicide, it is a serious thing. I just don't think anyone has the right to stop them. I think the people close to that person can and most likely will try to talk the person out of it. In the end I just think it is that persons decision.
I think the prevailing thoughts on suicide are the same emotional, knee-jerk reaction as most anti-firearm people have."It's just bad"
I agree with this. There's nothing anti-gun about the poster, and there's nothing anti-gun on the organization's web site (did anyone else bother to look?). It's reasonable to question whether what they're suggesting would be effective, but I don't see anything nefarious about their motives.
I agree absolutely that an individual should be fully in control of their own life, including having the right to end it when and how they wish. But that doesn't mean that if I had a family member or close friend who I knew was seriously contemplating suicide I'd just pat them on the back and tell them to have at it. Just because someone has the right to do something doesn't mean that it's a good decision to do it, and if I think someone close to me is making a bad decision for the wrong reasons I'm going to try to help. That's what human beings do for each other. Does anyone here think that the suicides we've been seeing recently among school-age kids in response to bullying are an appropriate response? Would you stand idly by and watch simply because they have the right to do it? I hope not.
Boghog1
NES Member
if you would like to read the entire email
http://www.pgnh.org/nh_suicide_and_guns_ploy_funded_by_top_anti_gun_gr oups
Tell me are any of these groups anti?
oh there is a video too
http://www.pgnh.org/nh_suicide_and_guns_ploy_funded_by_top_anti_gun_gr oups
Tell me are any of these groups anti?
oh there is a video too
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The reason someone is trying to kill themself is far far more important than the method or tool they are using. Someone who shoots themself is no more or less dead than someone who slits their wrist, ODs on drugs, jumps off of a bridge, hangs themself, or mixes household chemicals to make toxic fumes.
The whole public perception of this issue needs to change. Instead of the "hide the knives, keep the guns away, lock up the rope" mentality we need to focus on why the individual is so upset in the first place that they feel the need to end their life in the first place. Why is the person suicidal? That should be the primary area of focus. Removing the means by which a person would commit suicide, and ignoring the underlying problem will not prevent suicides in the long run. Certainly, you may stop someone killing themself today, but if the underlying problem isn't resolved then tomorrow they're just going to try again by means that you overlooked. If they're focusing on preventing suicide, starting at gun shops, then they're already starting too late in the game and are doing a huge disservice to the public.
The whole public perception of this issue needs to change. Instead of the "hide the knives, keep the guns away, lock up the rope" mentality we need to focus on why the individual is so upset in the first place that they feel the need to end their life in the first place. Why is the person suicidal? That should be the primary area of focus. Removing the means by which a person would commit suicide, and ignoring the underlying problem will not prevent suicides in the long run. Certainly, you may stop someone killing themself today, but if the underlying problem isn't resolved then tomorrow they're just going to try again by means that you overlooked. If they're focusing on preventing suicide, starting at gun shops, then they're already starting too late in the game and are doing a huge disservice to the public.
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Suicide statistics that try to make a point ignore those that can be though of as rational. Values differ, but someone who is terminally ill, enjoys no quality of life, is in pain, and has absolutely no hope of recovery is not necessarily not acting against their own best interests if they decide to checkout.
The system supports "de-facto" suicides - hospital patients requesting and obtaining DNR (Do not recussitate) or CMO (Comfort Measures Only) orders mean that docs and nurses will stand by and let a patient they could save die. Patients requiring life saving treatments are directly told they have the option to decline treatment and can expect the medical system to help them die more comfortably.
One can argue that the gun suicide rate is propped up by the fact that the system does not provide a legal, painless and effective way for someone of clear mind to do to themselves what they would do for a much loved dog.
The system supports "de-facto" suicides - hospital patients requesting and obtaining DNR (Do not recussitate) or CMO (Comfort Measures Only) orders mean that docs and nurses will stand by and let a patient they could save die. Patients requiring life saving treatments are directly told they have the option to decline treatment and can expect the medical system to help them die more comfortably.
One can argue that the gun suicide rate is propped up by the fact that the system does not provide a legal, painless and effective way for someone of clear mind to do to themselves what they would do for a much loved dog.
I was thinking Riley's, too, but I don't remember any rifles being behind the high pistol display cases like the one shown in the picture. I don't think its the same shop. ETA: the video definitely looks like it....
-Mike
You forgot, "you might feel some pressure, try to relax."
You going to take all the rope and extension cords out of their house, too?
If you think someone is that dangerous that you "have to keep guns away from them" then they probably belong in a mental hospital of some sort or another.
-Mike
Another NES'er hits the "easy out" button.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Sure, its not too unreasonable for suicide prevention group to do something like this.... however, the pessimist part of me really wants to say:
This could just be another way to make a connection between guns and crazy people. Even though technically the connection being advertised here is really just crazy/unstable person --> guns, once that connection is made and is seen more and more it will eventually subtly blend in to unstable people <--> guns.
Suppose somebody is really naive and nosy and they have a friend who seems depressed a lot. If the friend is not known to have any guns then whatever, people get depressed sometimes, no big deal. However, if the friend has guns, then by god something must be done before something bad happens. So then this person decides the friend needs to be disarmed, but they can't do it themselves so they call a suicide hotline or something... long story short: Mental health services gets involved, the friend gets red flagged, police get involved - ltc gets revoked etc...
Its could just be another way for people to 'see something and say something' and to encourage them to be really eager to meddle in affairs they know nothing about.
But then again... it could just be an innocent suicide prevention group trying to draw attention to what is probably one of the easiest/quickest/most painless suicide tools.
![[hmmm]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/009.gif "Hmm [hmmm]")
This could just be another way to make a connection between guns and crazy people. Even though technically the connection being advertised here is really just crazy/unstable person --> guns, once that connection is made and is seen more and more it will eventually subtly blend in to unstable people <--> guns.
Suppose somebody is really naive and nosy and they have a friend who seems depressed a lot. If the friend is not known to have any guns then whatever, people get depressed sometimes, no big deal. However, if the friend has guns, then by god something must be done before something bad happens. So then this person decides the friend needs to be disarmed, but they can't do it themselves so they call a suicide hotline or something... long story short: Mental health services gets involved, the friend gets red flagged, police get involved - ltc gets revoked etc...
Its could just be another way for people to 'see something and say something' and to encourage them to be really eager to meddle in affairs they know nothing about.
But then again... it could just be an innocent suicide prevention group trying to draw attention to what is probably one of the easiest/quickest/most painless suicide tools.
But then again... it could just be an innocent suicide prevention group trying to draw attention to what is probably one of the easiest/quickest/most painless suicide tools.
If that's their angle, then they're wasting their resources on a very ineffective message. How someone plans to kill themself isn't important. If a friend or family member confided in you that they were thinking of killing themself, would your first question to them be "How do you plan to do that?" or would it be "Why?", "What reason do you have for thinking that?" or "What problems could be so bad that you think the only way out is to kill yourself, and what can I do to help (solve these problems)?"
Drawing attention to the "how" is taking more attention away from the "why". More of the problems would be resolved by focusing on the reasons people are thinking of suicide instead of how they plan to do it.
