When does a pistol become a SBR

[HarryPottar]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this question, but I always seemed to want what I can not have.

I like the look of the AR15 style pistols, like the sig MPX, Omni Hybrid 5.56 Pistol from ATI even the M&P 15-22P.

When end does a pistol become a SBR or vice versa, what determines the classification.

Just started reading up on gun trusts and NFA.

Thanks

harry

 

[mclina]

When you install a buttstock

 

[dnepro-mike]

When you install a buttstock

or a forward vertical grip

or when <installed> stabilizing brace has touched your shoulder

 

[exo]

or a forward grip

or when <installed> stabilizing brace has touched your shoulder

Forward grip sans stock makes it an AOW, not an SBR, but to the OP - that still would require NFA registration. The stabilizing brace shit... ugh. That's what the cocktards at the ATF have decided, that touching the brace to your shoulder "redesigns" it into a shoulder stock, and thus the pistol becomes an unregistered SBR.

 

[dnepro-mike]

good catch! thanks. my bad. i just knew forward grip on pistol trigger NFA.

 

[Kevin_NH]

[thread=229513]Some suggest[/thread] it's when you buy a shoulder stock (or VFG) and put it in the [thread=122106]same room[/thread] with a pistol-length AR.

Not sure if this is the right place to post this question, but I always seemed to want what I can not have. I like the look of the AR15 style pistols, like the sig MPX, Omni Hybrid 5.56 Pistol from ATI even the M&P 15-22P. When does a pistol become a SBR or vice versa, what determines the classification. Just started reading up on gun trusts and NFA.

What state are you in? Outside of Massachusetts, the easy approach is to buy an AR-15 stripped or pistol lower and build it up as a pistol, then you can take your time deciding if you want to go SBR.

 

[HarryPottar]

I'm in MA so cool guns like the MPX aren't available here. I'm reading up on gun trust and will probably end up going that route to get a tax stamp on a SBR.

Assuming i I can not have an MPX in MA, but if I added a stock and made it an SBR with tax stamp then it would be legal?

thanks
harry

 

[atilla]

Assuming i I can not have an MPX in MA, but if I added a stock and made it an SBR with tax stamp then it would be legal?

you won't get a MPX in MA to even have the opportunity to make it a SBR. per the MGLs it's not legal as a pistol so you'd have to do it out of state.

get a friend in NH to go in with you on your trust, they buy the MPX, they submit the form 1 and do the engraving, and then when it's a SBR he can file a 5320, bring it to your range, and you guys can party with it. people might whine about that sounding like a straw purchase, but hey, once it's property of the trust it's property of the trust, the icing on the cake is that as a SBR it's not illegal for you to possess in your home state so no federal or state laws actually are broken here.

no it's not easy, and yes it's silly. the easiest thing is for you to move out of MA because i don't even know if 10 round mags exist for the MPX... and you're still subject to the AWB on mags.

 

[Kevin_NH]

no it's not easy, and yes it's silly. the easiest thing is for you to move out of MA because i don't even know if 10 round mags exist for the MPX... and you're still subject to the AWB on mags.

The part number exists.

Extra magazines for the MPX are difficult to come by in any capacity. Another argument for choosing a firearm which accepts a standard magazine for which pre-ban standard capacity mags can be found.

 

[exo]

The part number exists.

Extra magazines for the MPX are difficult to come by in any capacity. Another argument for choosing a firearm which accepts a standard magazine for which pre-ban standard capacity mags can be found.

Like a 9mm AR15 that takes preban Colt mags. OP can buy the lower, assign to trust, and file form 1 to SBR it all without having to play about with multi-state stuff.

 

[warwickben]

Like a 9mm AR15 that takes preban Colt mags. OP can buy the lower, assign to trust, and file form 1 to SBR it all without having to play about with multi-state stuff.

You can get glock lowers also . So you can run 30 rd or drum mags.

 

[exo]

You can get glock lowers also . So you can run 30 rd or drum mags.

Yeah, if the OP cares about preban stuff though then that won't fly.

 

[warwickben]

Yeah, if the OP cares about preban stuff though then that won't fly.

Mags you can get the drums are different story. I figure I'd mention it since not every one feels like cutting a Uzi mag to work in the colt system . And if they have a glock no need to buy new mags. You can get 30rd extensions for standard glock mags . So if you have normal preban ones you can still have 30 rd mags .

 

[knfmn]

Mags you can get the drums are different story. I figure I'd mention it since not every one feels like cutting a Uzi mag to work in the colt system . And if they have a glock no need to buy new mags. You can get 30rd extensions for standard glock mags . So if you have normal preban ones you can still have 30 rd mags .

And there are tons of pre-ban 33 rounders floating around out there.

 

[Hardwired]

you won't get a MPX in MA to even have the opportunity to make it a SBR. per the MGLs it's not legal as a pistol so you'd have to do it out of state.

Why can't an MPX (or equivalent) be shipped to a MA FFL/smith, have them weld on a big muzzle brake extension to get to >16" barrel length, add a stock, then transfer as a MA compliant rifle?

Isn't this the same thing FFLs do with with non-ban rifle configs that need to pin an adjustable stock, remove a bayo lug, pin/weld a muzzle brake?

When OP gets the form1 approval then engrave and convert to SBR.

 

[loki32687]

I believe they'd need to engrave their information on it

 

[warwickben]

Why can't an MPX (or equivalent) be shipped to a MA FFL/smith, have them weld on a big muzzle brake extension to get to >16" barrel length, add a stock, then transfer as a MA compliant rifle?

Isn't this the same thing FFLs do with with non-ban rifle configs that need to pin an adjustable stock, remove a bayo lug, pin/weld a muzzle brake?

When OP gets the form1 approval then engrave and convert to SBR.

They would be making a pistol into a rifle . They would probably need a 07.

Did they never get around to producing one with a pinned barrel extension ?

 

[atilla]

I believe they'd need to engrave their information on it

They would be making a pistol into a rifle . They would probably need a 07.

Did they never get around to producing one with a pinned barrel extension ?

both of these. just because it's a FFL doing it doesn't change the fact that you're going from pistol to rifle and still in NFA land. they would need the 07 as ben said so they could manufacture the firearm, THEN they'd also need to be a SOT because what they are doing is manufacturing a SBR, paying the tax, and then they would be engraving their information on it. after all this is done THEN it could be transferred to the guy on a form 4--for another $200.

Type 1 – This license allows the dealer to sell or transfer firearms

Type 7 – This license allows the dealer to manufacture new firearms as well as selling or transferring existing firearms

Although an FFL will allow a person or business to become involved in the firearms business, it isn’t enough if you want to deal with NFA weapons. NFA stands for the National Firearms Act, and covers full-auto weapons, short barrel rifles & shotguns, and suppressors. In order to get involved with selling or transferring NFA items, an existing FFL holder needs to also obtain an SOT. SOT stands for Special Occupational Tax, and is required in order to become involved in the selling or transferring of NFA items (like suppressors). (Once again, an individual can sell his personal NFA weapons to another individual in most states; but, they must complete the appropriate ATF transfer process.)

 

[warwickben]

both of these. just because it's a FFL doing it doesn't change the fact that you're going from pistol to rifle and still in NFA land. they would need the 07 as ben said so they could manufacture the firearm, THEN they'd also need to be a SOT because what they are doing is manufacturing a SBR, paying the tax, and then they would be engraving their information on it. after all this is done THEN it could be transferred to the guy on a form 4--for another $200.

Cause of the ATF was fighting sig about the brake are they not gonna sell a carbine version with a barrel extension ?

 

[Kevin_NH]

Cause of the ATF was fighting sig about the brake are they not gonna sell a carbine version with a barrel extension ?

I suspect SIG is holding back on another variant with a barrel extension until they decide whether to appeal the decision in the "baffle stack or muzzle brake?" lawsuit. Personally, I'd be happy if they sold the barrel with the suppressor body already installed as a separate item requiring a $200 tax stamp.

I suppose they could do an oversize shroud like the Tactical Solutions SBX barrel.