What would it take?

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So I was thinking. I know, dangerous right? So when I went into my PD to renew my license, the licensing officer had a STACK of new or renewed permits, and she was saying she wouldn't get them mailed out for a day or two cause she was so busy. So......my thought? Would it be possible for someone, maybe GOAL, or Comm2a, to set up a "program" where citizens could help in the process of getting permits out to folks or help in getting appointments booked etc etc? Towns complain about funding and money, but what if we did our part to help instead of bitching and actually did something to help?

Is this even possible, or is there some stupid ass law that would prohibit this?
 

frenchman

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I don't see why they couldn't give an automated phone call like walgreens does. "your license to carry can be picked up at your local PD. Please bring your ID when you pick it up". Saves time and money, IMO. But I guess that would be too simple or something.Not enough of a hassle for the citizen.
 
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Without getting a union bash going how would it look if some "citizen" walked in and did a weeks worth of work in a day..Would not look to good on the PD
 
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I don't think it would be a union thing or even an MGL thing. It is a police culture thing here in New England. In many other states, communities have civilian volunteers, not just Reserve or Auxiliary Officers. The idea of citizens helping is a good one.

The reality of the situation is that most departments are financially strapped and that is no BS. I'm willing to bet that the firearms clerk has other things that are a higher priority, even if he/she is hired to do that job. I'm not defending any PD because I think it is a good idea, but one that probably won't float here because of regional prejudices and the corporate police culture. It may very well be an idea whose time has come, though and I think that out of the 351 police departments in the Commonwealth, some department would adopt this concept and the idea would catch on. I hope so, it has merit, resistance to change will be formidable I think.
 

ntomsw

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They do it on purpose. Just like the 'backlog' in issuing new LTC's. There is no backlog. They are sitting on applications because they can.

Same thing applies here. "She's too busy" to mail the licenses. Bull shit. Do your ****ing job.
 

center442

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Aside from the union stuff, there might also be a problem with allowing non-employees access to LTC information. MA prohibits public disclosure of LTC info, so having 'ordinary citizens' processing any part of that info might be no-go. Bolio said that the LO is a civilian, but if she is paid by the department then she is probably considered privileged enough to handle that information. A volunteer might not have that same exemption.
 
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Aside from the union stuff, there might also be a problem with allowing non-employees access to LTC information. MA prohibits public disclosure of LTC info, so having 'ordinary citizens' processing any part of that info might be no-go. Bolio said that the LO is a civilian, but if she is paid by the department then she is probably considered privileged enough to handle that information. A volunteer might not have that same exemption.

It would depend on how much of the licensing process the volunteer would do. They might not be able to run a BOP, but they could keep the records and act as file clerks and ensure that things are mailed out or applicants are notified. Simple clerical stuff which even in our automated age takes time, and not every department has the same degree of automation. This frequently is what takes time in any process involving state applications for anything. General office practice more late 20th Century in many instances (from what I have seen over the years with the state) than state of the art 21st Century. Lots of Departments are still doing things the way it was done in the 1970's.

So it becomes an issue of financial resources: what are departmentlal priorities? If a town of 5000 had 3900 people with FIDs or LTCs then it would be a big deal, but I don't know of any towns or cities like that. Higher priorities for budget to upgrade, lack of urgency to licensing all contribute to this. I am not defending, just attempting to provide an explanation. There are I suspect too, Chiefs who are very anti-gun who abuse their power, we know this, but I think in most cases it has to do with management of assets and resources and firearms licensing just doesn't rise to the top of any department's priorities. Once departments found that there was no teeth in the 40 day rule, they let things slide, such is the nature of bureaucracy.
 
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I think that would demonstrate an overwhelming approval of the current system - no thanks. What if: no licenses to exercise fundamental rights = no paperwork. Its so crazy it might even work.
 

drgrant

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That's the fast part of the process, frankly, not sure what the poi t of having a circus to save 2 or 3 days worth is even worth getting worked up over, because that's not where the bulk of delays are coming from.... the pds and the state are often dragging ass to the tune of 20+ days over normal just getting them processed. Unless you're in Everett or one of those dumps... where the turtle factor us 100 times longer than that.

-Mike
 

TonyDedo

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Yeah, liability and privacy issues aside, I'm sure the CoP would just LOVE the idea of a bunch of "citizens" (specifically those with a political agenda) coming into the police station to "help" process LTC applications.

If nothing else, I wouldn't want ANYONE getting access to my LTC applications. Just imagine the shitstorm the first time someone leaks the information and everyone's LTC application info gets published online...
 
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Yeah, liability and privacy issues aside, I'm sure the CoP would just LOVE the idea of a bunch of "citizens" (specifically those with a political agenda) coming into the police station to "help" process LTC applications.

If nothing else, I wouldn't want ANYONE getting access to my LTC applications. Just imagine the shitstorm the first time someone leaks the information and everyone's LTC application info gets published online...

The problem is that there is no guarantee that something like that couldn't happen now. Lots of "unnamed sources" just love to blab to the press.

You can have civilian volunteers sign a binding non-disclosure agreement. We have interns in out office who are essentially unpaid volunteers and they do all catch-up clerical work. It's the same idea. They must undergo a basic background check, sign a non-disclosure agreement with the MSP and are not paid for their services. They are in effect volunteers. They also have to get CJIS training. Divulging anything can result in criminal prosecution whether paid or not. The intern program is a de facto application of the idea proposed by HKDrummer, the precedent is set IMO.
 
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If nothing else, I wouldn't want ANYONE getting access to my LTC applications. Just imagine the shitstorm the first time someone leaks the information and everyone's LTC application info gets published online...

But honestly, having a volunteer or part time person screened and sign a non-disclosure agreement is pretty simple. There is nothing stopping a current cop or city employee from leaking sensitive data to the media, if they really wanted to.

I really think we're over thinking it with respect to LTC data being all secret squirrel, meanwhile everyone and their brother can access your medical and financial records at the lowest levels of employment in those fields. I wouldn't want my information made public, because it's nobody's business but mine, but I also don't kid myself about ow much information you can get with little more than my name and address.
 
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But honestly, having a volunteer or part time person screened and sign a non-disclosure agreement is pretty simple. There is nothing stopping a current cop or city employee from leaking sensitive data to the media, if they really wanted to.

I really think we're over thinking it with respect to LTC data being all secret squirrel, meanwhile everyone and their brother can access your medical and financial records at the lowest levels of employment in those fields. I wouldn't want my information made public, because it's nobody's business but mine, but I also don't kid myself about ow much information you can get with little more than my name and address.

This. Someone else messaged me mentioning the same thing, "what if they gave out the info to thugs". My response would be what stops the cop from doing the same? I mean, all you would have to do is make them sign a non disclosure, and maybe even threaten revocation of disclosing info. I would think that anyone who has an LTC and is willing to help certainly wouldnt be the type to do something stupid and risk all kinds of shit. JMHO.

NTom, honestly, I think some towns do exactly what you're saying, but I noticed here in my town that she literally was doing interviews back to back to back all day, and had a stack, no lie, of roughly three inches of licenses that just came in that she had to individually envelope, address, and mail. I think she was sincerely back logged, and not trying to hold people up. She seemed pretty 2A. I would gladly lick envelopes and get those mailed out so people could enjoy them.
 
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I don't see why they couldn't give an automated phone call like walgreens does. "your license to carry can be picked up at your local PD. Please bring your ID when you pick it up". Saves time and money, IMO. But I guess that would be too simple or something.Not enough of a hassle for the citizen.

Automated phone calls are not something (I think) that every PD is set up with, especially the small towns. It's a good idea but not universally applicable.
 

KMS

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I dropped my renewal off one day last month,lady at the front desk said it takes about a week and a half because it was back logged.

Silly me I waited for the last minute to turn it in before my old one expired.

They called me 2 days later to come pick it up,I was busy so I didn't make down....a week went by and they called again and told me it was ready,I finally went down and was told I was the first person to get 2 phone calls.She told me that that was the first time they waited for someone to pick up a license it sat in the basket for 2 weeks.

Total reverse mentality than the MA,while they can't wait,I'm to lazy to drive 10 minutes to pick mine up.
 
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That's the fast part of the process, frankly, not sure what the poi t of having a circus to save 2 or 3 days worth is even worth getting worked up over, because that's not where the bulk of delays are coming from.... the pds and the state are often dragging ass to the tune of 20+ days over normal just getting them processed. Unless you're in Everett or one of those dumps... where the turtle factor us 100 times longer than that.

-Mike

I was merely mentioning the distribution as it was the most forefront issue I saw, but I wonder if getting someone in there to aid in processing or even just as simple as scheduling the interview, that alone here in town took me two weeks and dozens of phone calls. Little things like that could start to speed things up, shit if it makes it a week or two quicker, id say its worth it.
 
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How about we do away with licensing

oh yea we live in MA where we are criminals before the fact

Yes, but there are a LOT of things which could be done to streamline the process. First and foremost, make it SHALL ISSUE. Second, remove the different classes. Third, remove the restrictions. These changes alone would speed things up tremendously. In fact, that would probably be enough to allow the fee to drop down to $20 or $25.
 

GunGrey

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Yes, but there are a LOT of things which could be done to streamline the process. First and foremost, make it SHALL ISSUE. Second, remove the different classes. Third, remove the restrictions. These changes alone would speed things up tremendously. In fact, that would probably be enough to allow the fee to drop down to $20 or $25.

that would be too easy
 
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