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Weymouth PD REQUIRES live fire for LTC.

Precision Point Firearms

Precision Point Firearms

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150-T New Boston St. Woburn, MA 01801
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I just had a student contact me staying that my class certificate I awarded him does not meet the requirements for a state license to carry with Weymouth PD. The student in question successfully completed the NRA's home firearms safety class LTC-007 and was told they would not issue the license unless they had taken a live fire class. Keep in mind this is for a restricted license. I called the PD and reminded them LTC-007 meets state police requirements and they we not having it. Has anyone else ran into this situation?
 
that's some hardcore bullshit. probably will be upheld given boston has done the same shit for some time now. never heard of it outside boston.
 
Not a new "requirement" by that PD. They probably hinge their decision on "suitability" which allows them a very wide berth to add all sorts of non-requirements.
 
Precision Point Firearms said:
I just had a student contact me staying that my class certificate I awarded him does not meet the requirements for a state license to carry with Weymouth PD. The student in question successfully completed the NRA's home firearms safety class LTC-007 and was told they would not issue the license unless they had taken a live fire class. Keep in mind this is for a restricted license. I called the PD and reminded them LTC-007 meets state police requirements and they we not having it. Has anyone else ran into this situation?
Click to expand...


The Weymouth permit application requires a live fire segment by the instructor giving the LTC-007 class (See #5 five in the attachment). It only requires a target signed and dated by the instructor. Did your class have a live fire segment?


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...hYHgAQ&usg=AFQjCNFHxJLfJsSaA62JpElEOxZQLNKmgQ
 
Precision Point Firearms said:
No as ltc-007 doesn't have it I did not But I will work something out
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I'm certified by NRA and state police. If you can't find a way to do it and the applicant can drive to Middleton (about 40 miles), I'll do it gratis (assuming the Weymouth PD will accept it from another instructor).
 
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While I happen to agree that any basic training courses for LTC purposes should include live fire, Weymouth is on doubtful ground legally.

The statute requiring pre-license training authorizes the Colonel of the State Police to promulgate regulations governing such training. G.L. ch. 140, sec. 131P.

The governing regulations are at 515 C.M.R. sec. 3.00 et seq.

As for LTC training:

"The following BFS courses, with fulfillment of 515 CMR 3.05(2)(b) requirements as applicable, meet the Department of State Police's criteria for obtaining a LTC and are approved: . . .

(b) NRA Basic Pistol Course, NRA Personal Protection Course or NRA Home Safety Course . . . .". 515 C.M.R. sec. 3.05(b)(4)(b).

The Home Firearms Safety Course explicitly does not include live fire.
 
Such shit. All of it. It's all about power.


Sent from my mobile phone from behind enemy lines.
 
RKG said:
While I happen to agree that any basic training courses for LTC purposes should include live fire, Weymouth is on doubtful ground legally.

The statute requiring pre-license training authorizes the Colonel of the State Police to promulgate regulations governing such training. G.L. ch. 140, sec. 131P.

The governing regulations are at 515 C.M.R. sec. 3.00 et seq.

As for LTC training:

"The following BFS courses, with fulfillment of 515 CMR 3.05(2)(b) requirements as applicable, meet the Department of State Police's criteria for obtaining a LTC and are approved: . . .

(b) NRA Basic Pistol Course, NRA Personal Protection Course or NRA Home Safety Course . . . .". 515 C.M.R. sec. 3.05(b)(4)(b).

The Home Firearms Safety Course explicitly does not include live fire.
Click to expand...

"Suitability" is a separate issue allowing them to hang their hats on that, and the case that Atty Karen MacNutt lost many years ago is what give them the guts to invoke such "requirements".

Many PDs also refuse Hunter Ed Certs, even though MGL specifically allows that as an option. Having taken a terrible Hunter Ed course a few years ago, I really understand their rationale for doing so and personally agree that most of the Hunter Ed courses out there are severely lacking!
 
Len-2A Training said:
"Suitability" is a separate issue allowing them to hang their hats on that, and the case that Atty Karen MacNutt lost many years ago is what give them the guts to invoke such "requirements".

Many PDs also refuse Hunter Ed Certs, even though MGL specifically allows that as an option. Having taken a terrible Hunter Ed course a few years ago, I really understand their rationale for doing so and personally agree that most of the Hunter Ed courses out there are severely lacking!
Click to expand...

There is a principle that holds that when the Legislature has spoken on a point, an executive official cannot use otherwise valid discretionary power to reach a different result on the same point. (This is an element of the legal doctrine of preemption.) While Weymouth may disagree with the Colonel's judgment on what training suffices for an LTC--as do I--he and I are both bound by it.
 
To get your drivers license you have to drive a real car I see why you have to shoot a real gun to get your LTC.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm from Weymouth I had no problem getting my LTC with live fire. (Have to submit a target with date and initials of instructor)
 
Serapis said:
Such shit. All of it. It's all about power.
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That may be part of it. The other part is designed to dissuade one from even applying. Some chiefs don't believe that citizens, who pay their salaries, should even have the right to own firearms, let alone carry them concealed. They forget that their opinion doesn't trump the Constitution.
 
HiramAbiff said:
To get your drivers license you have to drive a real car I see why you have to shoot a real gun to get your LTC.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm from Weymouth I had no problem getting my LTC with live fire. (Have to submit a target with date and initials of instructor)
Click to expand...

I agree with my Brother,as long as you get a real LTC at the end,and not one with restrictions.
 
RKG said:
There is a principle that holds that when the Legislature has spoken on a point, an executive official cannot use otherwise valid discretionary power to reach a different result on the same point. (This is an element of the legal doctrine of preemption.) While Weymouth may disagree with the Colonel's judgment on what training suffices for an LTC--as do I--he and I are both bound by it.
Click to expand...

Convincing them of that is the real challenge! [wink]

And why we have Comm2A in our corner.
 
HiramAbiff said:
To get your drivers license you have to drive a real car I see why you have to shoot a real gun to get your LTC.
Click to expand...

Great, I am so glad you have the moral authority and technical knowledge to tell us how to live our lives. Here is the problem with this. There are all of one commercial training facilities (Bob's in Salisbury may have classes, but I don't know, they would be the second one) that can support live fire. The rest are non profit clubs of some form or another. The clubs can not, per their charter, rent out their facilities to trainers on a for profit basis without having all sorts of problems with the IRS. If MA mandated live fire, the number of trainers available to teach would shrink to about 10% of the current. The clubs could allow trainers to come in for free and teach the club courses, but not allow them to teach their own classes.

A requirement for live fire would be MFS corporate welfare if this requirement were put in place and cut LTC applications to about 25% of where they are now.

Also, how the **** do you think people learn to shoot? They practice. How the **** can someone practice shooting a gun in MA if they don't have their ****ing LTC? What may be a perfectly reasonable requirement in a state like NH where places to shoot are abound and the ability to practice exists without first sucking the kings cock, is a major burden and infringement of rights down here in this this shithole.
 
I always include a live fire segment in training because of a bad experience (not for me, but for the student) that I encountered about 8 years ago. He was a male, around 35 years old and never handled or shot a firearm in his life. Place an empty firearm in his hand and he was fine. However, once he loaded a firearm and prepared himself to fire it, he would start sweating and shaking uncontrollably with it. I started out with 9mm, but after observing this shaking behavior, I reverted to letting him shoot a .22lr. Eventually, after around several hundred rounds of .22, and then 9mm (that I made him pay for) and several shooting sessions, he finally calmed down and I passed him. He was an exception, but the time was worth it to me because I just didn't have the conscience to pass him until he exhibited control with a firearm.

Someone with experience or who does not exhibit this type of behavior generally shoots a box of ammo (or more if they request it).

BTW, my club holds classes and includes live fire.
 
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HiramAbiff said:
To get your drivers license you have to drive a real car I see why you have to shoot a real gun to get your LTC.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm from Weymouth I had no problem getting my LTC with live fire. (Have to submit a target with date and initials of instructor)
Click to expand...

Fail
 
HiramAbiff said:
To get your drivers license you have to drive a real car I see why you have to shoot a real gun to get your LTC.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm from Weymouth I had no problem getting my LTC with live fire. (Have to submit a target with date and initials of instructor)
Click to expand...

There should not be ANY mandatory requirement for ANY constitutional right.
 
HiramAbiff said:
To get your drivers license you have to drive a real car I see why you have to shoot a real gun to get your LTC.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm from Weymouth I had no problem getting my LTC with live fire. (Have to submit a target with date and initials of instructor)
Click to expand...

driving a car is NOT a constitutional right. wake up
 
HiramAbiff said:
To get your drivers license you have to drive a real car I see why you have to shoot a real gun to get your LTC.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm from Weymouth I had no problem getting my LTC with live fire. (Have to submit a target with date and initials of instructor)
Click to expand...

Huge, Major, FAIL !
 
HiramAbiff said:
To get your drivers license you have to drive a real car I see why you have to shoot a real gun to get your LTC.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm from Weymouth I had no problem getting my LTC with live fire. (Have to submit a target with date and initials of instructor)
Click to expand...

Good for you! I on the other hand don't feel self important enough to give away others rights.

After getting past the right to move about unfettered by the government, we can examine the fact that a drivers license is shall issue, has one clearly stated set of requirements and is not required to own a car or drive on private property.

If you can fix those issues with the LTC, then you might have a case
 
pastera said:
Good for you! I on the other hand don't feel self important enough to give away others rights.

After getting past the right to move about unfettered by the government, we can examine the fact that a drivers license is shall issue, has one clearly stated set of requirements and is not required to own a car or drive on private property.

If you can fix those issues with the LTC, then you might have a case
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Restate the OP: "I know a guy who lives in Weymouth, the RMV won't give him a driver's license because he took driver's ed, but Weymouth says you have to take driver's ed only from a *insert small set of schools* to get a DL in Weymouth"
 
HiramAbiff said:
To get your drivers license you have to drive a real car I see why you have to shoot a real gun to get your LTC.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm from Weymouth I had no problem getting my LTC with live fire. (Have to submit a target with date and initials of instructor)
Click to expand...

I agree completely.

If you take your live fire with a .22 semi-auto, that's all you should be allowed to own.

A 1911 has a different operating procedure from a revolver, so that needs to be addressed, too.

And, Glocks just plain scare me, so those should be for LEOs, only.

And a separate endorsement for Pump, Semi-auto, and break-action shotguns, as well as for the different types of rifles.

People should not be allowed to do things for themselves. That way lies madness.
 

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