"Well being check"... warrantless search??

[Snapshot]

For the past few weeks I've been pretty sick... and we ain't talking "cold and flu season" sick. I took almost an entire week off and got called into the doctors office one hour into my shift last week for some tests. My bosses all knew that something was pretty wrong.

Last Friday I told my supervisor that I have to take Monday (today) off so I can get some more testing done. However he is pretty sick too (more along the lines of cold or flu). So today rolls around and neither of us show up.

The assistant supervisor never got word that I was taking today off. He tries to contact the supervisor but he is now home and high on whatever drugs he's taking to combat his illness and really doesn't remember much of Friday.

Next thing you know, the police are knocking on..... not my door.

The guys at work still have my old address on file (in spite of the countless times I've told them to change it to the new one). I get a call from the current residents (whom obviously know me) telling me that the fuzz showed up looking for me to see if I was still alive.

Which brings me to my question. If they had the right address, they wouldn’t have gotten a response to their knock because I was at the doctors office. Had they not gotten a response, could they have just gone in? One would think that my rights say the “check” stops at the door. However the whole purpose behind a well being check is for somebody who may not be able to answer a door. So what’s the protocol?

Secondly, if they can go right in, how does that affect me as a gun owner? I have all sorts of reloading equipment around. If they see what they think are live rounds all over the place (but are really empty casings) can that cause trouble for me?

 

[JonJ]

Which brings me to my question. If they had the right address, they wouldn’t have gotten a response to their knock because I was at the doctors office. Had they not gotten a response, could they have just gone in? One would think that my rights say the “check” stops at the door. However the whole purpose behind a well being check is for somebody who may not be able to answer a door. So what’s the protocol?

The entry would have been made under the Community Caretaker or Emergency Aid exception. Attempts would be made to contact a neighbor or family member, check with the local hospital, look through the windows. If all fails then a way is looked for to enter, ie: open window, spare key etc. When that fails the FD is called and your door is "stretched" or worse.
Every situation is different. Entries are not only made on the circumstance you outlined but are done regularly on 911 hang up calls.

Secondly, if they can go right in, how does that affect me as a gun owner? I have all sorts of reloading equipment around. If they see what they think are live rounds all over the place (but are really empty casings) can that cause trouble for me?

It depends. As far as the law is concerned empty cases are the same as live.

 

[bpm990d]

It depends. As far as the law is concerned empty cases are the same as live.

Hmmmm... glad I don't live in the Workers Paradise.

B

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Entwhistle's attorney is going to build up a lot of billable hours getting this exact question answered.

 

[Doctordrew]

legally your suposed to have reloading supplies locked up, as you would other "ammunition" so having your reloading equiptment around would be unlawful...

im not sure about the entry stuff.

 

[Snapshot]

legally your suposed to have reloading supplies locked up, as you would other "ammunition" so having your reloading equiptment around would be unlawful...

I thought that was just for the stuff that went boom... such as powders and primers. In fact, wouldn't that make those novelty dummy rounds illegal to keep on your desk?

 

[Len-2A Training]

ALL components are "defined as ammunition" in the Commiewealth.

Thus, ALL components, even spent .22 shells, are supposed to be locked up at all times and never within reach of an unlicensed person.


Don't you feel safer knowing this?

 

[JonJ]

I thought that was just for the stuff that went boom... such as powders and primers. In fact, wouldn't that make those novelty dummy rounds illegal to keep on your desk?

Powder, primers and ammo above specific quantities needs to be stored by the regulations set forth in 527 CMR 13.04.

The novelties would require at least a FID to possess or purchase if someone wanted to push the issue.

 

[Chris]

Locking up ammo is a Fire Marshal regulation. The PD would have to call in the fire dept to issue the civil infraction. Dunno about your town, but my Fire Chief would be a bit miffed to be called away from his farm for some guy's reloading bench.

Then again, it's so much easier to just clean up after yourself and put all your toys away. (^_^)

 

[Len-2A Training]

Locking up ammo is a Fire Marshal regulation. The PD would have to call in the fire dept to issue the civil infraction. Dunno about your town, but my Fire Chief would be a bit miffed to be called away from his farm for some guy's reloading bench.

Then again, it's so much easier to just clean up after yourself and put all your toys away. (^_^)

Much more likely is that the report, once it hits the police chief's desk, results in HIM determining that you are no longer a "suitable person" and he sends you a letter with an officer and a truck to pick up your LTC, all your guns, ammo and components which disappear into a black hole (bonded warehouse for guns, all the rest "destroyed" as "high explosives" like we see reported in the snews).

 

[Snapshot]

Well, here I was worried about the empty casings causing a fishing expedition. Little did I know there wouldn't be much of a need for fishing.

Guess I'll be locking up the rest of my stuff tonight.

Thanks for the heads up guys

 

[Doctordrew]

mass law

this is it right here.

“Ammunition”, cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun. The term “ammunition” shall also mean tear gas cartridges, chemical mace or any device or instrument which contains or emits a liquid, gas, powder or any other substance designed to incapacitate.

 

[StuckInMA]

ALL components are "defined as ammunition" in the Commiewealth.

Thus, ALL components, even spent .22 shells, are supposed to be locked up at all times and never within reach of an unlicensed person.

Don't you feel safer knowing this?

I wouldn't be surprise to see the Mass "off"icials come out with some "report"* about the alarming numbers of people injured or killed by empty shells.





* officially "made-up" report

 

[Len-2A Training]

I wouldn't be surprise to see the Mass "off"icials come out with some "report"* about the alarming numbers of people injured or killed by empty shells.





* officially "made-up" report

IIRC, they have "locked down" schools after finding a spent shell! I'm sure that it goes in the firearms crime stats!

 

[Doctordrew]

i remember when i was younger me and a friend would go into sand pits and find spent shells and trade them, the more shiny, the more they were "worth" and the bigger the better....we traded them in school too and almost got suspended..... we didnt realize it was illegal... im glad we didnt actually get in trouble. beyond a talk with the principal...

 

[billmelater]

I never realized how unsuitable a person I am.
It looks like I've been brazenly flaunting the law by displaying logo golfballs on top of spent 45 Long Colt casings at a flea market.
And right out in the open too, endangering the lives of some, maybe even thousands of innocent women and children.

Thank God nobody was injured, or worse yet, offended!

 

[dwarven1]

I never realized how unsuitable a person I am.
It looks like I've been brazenly flaunting the law by displaying logo golfballs on top of spent 45 Long Colt casings at a flea market.

You crazy lunatic, don't you realize how dangerous that is???

Why, that brass could... uh, that is... Well, it must be dangerous; they're parts of ammunition, aren't they??

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It's interesting how any part of ammunition is legally ammo and subject to all the restrictions therefor, whereas, the frame of a handgun is not legally a "firearm" in MA and may be legally sold without any license (subject to the usual federal check and restrictions). Even so, I doubt any of the shops selling frames without the non-required-for-frames FA10 would sell to someone without an LTC.

 

[rscalzo]

Getting back to the original subject, we had many of these "request for well being checks". Many times the person who had "disappeared" just didn't want to talk to the other one or a phone line problem. I guess it was an unanticipated result of caller ID. The weirdest one was a request from a large consulting firm to check on one of their senior executives. We gained entry and it looked like a bomb hit this million dollar condo. What a slob. Turned out he took off with over two million of the companies money and later surfaced at another firm with some of his old clients. The original company buried it and took no action because of the embarrassment of not even missing the funds.

I few times it was more serious and when we arrived we knew there was a problem so the door came down or a window forced after approval by a supervisor.

The only time firearm's components actually came into play was after an arrest we found a large quantity of black powder. That tended to worry me somewhat. Ammo or components wasn't regulated back there so it wasn't an issue.

A more likely scenario would probably be something involving drugs or related paraphernalia. That would most likely go to a suppression hearing down the line.

 

[dwarven1]

Last month, a friend of mine hadn't shown up for work for several days - his company called his emergency contact, and on a Monday night broke into his apartment. He'd passed away sometime the previous Tuesday.

 

[bpm990d]

How are you supposed to dispose of spent primers if the law makes no distinction?

B

 

[Admin]

The popo would have a heat attack if they walked in to my house in NH, but I wouldn't be in jail.

 

[Admin]

Guess I'll be locking up the rest of my stuff tonight.

Start looking for real estate in NH. They don't treat their residents like 5 year old children.

 

[doobie]

How are you supposed to dispose of spent primers if the law makes no distinction?

Is there a place to recycle old cases? I imagine that if cases are in bad shape for reloading I can't just throw them out in the trash.

 

[Doctordrew]

bring them to a machine shop and sell the old cases to them? but make sure he has his FID or LTC!!!!

 

[gws1063]

Is there a place to recycle old cases? I imagine that if cases are in bad shape for reloading I can't just throw them out in the trash.

Locate a nearby anti-crime community activist group (you should have several to choose from, especially if you are willing to venture closer to Boston). Help organize a cartridge turn-in drive after which all the brass will be melted down and re-cast as Peace Medallions.

Remember to stage press conferences along the way, as local pols love to prattle on about all they are doing to reduce crime, get cop-killer bullets off the street, yada, yada, yada.

It will be a lot of hard work and you may not think you are accomplishing much (er, um, well, 'cause you aren't), but you can feel all warm and fuzzy and know that you've done it FOR THE CHILDREN.

-Gary

Sorry for sarcasm, I guess it was a tough morning.

 

[Firetarr]

Don't forget the "dum-dum" brass, it's just as dangerous!