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WC846 powder
- Thread starter richc
- Start date
55_grain
NES Member
xtry51
NES Member
Bumping this.
For .223 I'm currently using 24.5gr with a M855 62gr.
Getting 2,758fps avg with +/-25fps range.
Very accurate even at 300 yards out of my 16" 1:7.
I'm getting .308 dies shortly and will be using it for that as well.
For .223 I'm currently using 24.5gr with a M855 62gr.
Getting 2,758fps avg with +/-25fps range.
Very accurate even at 300 yards out of my 16" 1:7.
I'm getting .308 dies shortly and will be using it for that as well.
xtry51
NES Member
Bumping this again.
I just opened a new jug of WC846 to reload some 55gr .223. Bullets are Hornady FMJ. Brass LC. Primers were Federal 205s.
Started at 26.0gr in 0.5gr increments to 27.5gr.
100 yd target today. 70F, light headwind ~5-10mph.
1:7 16" Noveske Barrel. 5 shot groups, slow fire.
Time between loads for barrel to cool to warm (can hold barrel with bare hand) but not cold.
XM193 10 shots to warm barrel
XM193 10 shot group for baseline - 3.54" (this is why I don't buy factory ammo anymore, GARBAGE)
26.0 - 1.75"
26.5 - 2.91"
27.0 - 1.46"
27.5 - 1.46" slight flattening of primers.
The first group was slight right. The second went buckshotty and center to left indicating I was probably in a bad place for barrel harmonics. Third and forth very nice groups, same POI slight right again. I think you could go to 28.5gr for a max load, but I wouldn't gain anything with my 16" barrel and I might end up in another bad harmonic. I'm stopping and settling on reloading at 27.3gr to stay in that sweet spot and a smidge down from the primer flattening.
The best load I have going for 55gr from this gun right now is 27.1gr of 4320, same brass and primers shoots a 0.90" group. Overall I'm pretty happy that an $80 jug of pull down is giving me a 1.5" group from a barrel that's no spring chicken.
I have one more jug of WC844 from a new lot I've not tried yet. I'll be working up a load for that one next week. I'll probably start at 25.5gr as that's been a decent number in the safe zone for all three previous lots I've run and I'll take it up in .5 increments to 27.0gr. Fairly certain I'll see flat primers at 26.5 and stop, but I'll load five of the next one anyway just in case.
I just opened a new jug of WC846 to reload some 55gr .223. Bullets are Hornady FMJ. Brass LC. Primers were Federal 205s.
Started at 26.0gr in 0.5gr increments to 27.5gr.
100 yd target today. 70F, light headwind ~5-10mph.
1:7 16" Noveske Barrel. 5 shot groups, slow fire.
Time between loads for barrel to cool to warm (can hold barrel with bare hand) but not cold.
XM193 10 shots to warm barrel
XM193 10 shot group for baseline - 3.54" (this is why I don't buy factory ammo anymore, GARBAGE)
26.0 - 1.75"
26.5 - 2.91"
27.0 - 1.46"
27.5 - 1.46" slight flattening of primers.
The first group was slight right. The second went buckshotty and center to left indicating I was probably in a bad place for barrel harmonics. Third and forth very nice groups, same POI slight right again. I think you could go to 28.5gr for a max load, but I wouldn't gain anything with my 16" barrel and I might end up in another bad harmonic. I'm stopping and settling on reloading at 27.3gr to stay in that sweet spot and a smidge down from the primer flattening.
The best load I have going for 55gr from this gun right now is 27.1gr of 4320, same brass and primers shoots a 0.90" group. Overall I'm pretty happy that an $80 jug of pull down is giving me a 1.5" group from a barrel that's no spring chicken.
I have one more jug of WC844 from a new lot I've not tried yet. I'll be working up a load for that one next week. I'll probably start at 25.5gr as that's been a decent number in the safe zone for all three previous lots I've run and I'll take it up in .5 increments to 27.0gr. Fairly certain I'll see flat primers at 26.5 and stop, but I'll load five of the next one anyway just in case.
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If I,read the US military spec right for testing 5.56(m855) they test velocity 75' from the muzzle.
The only data I have seen that has specific 5.56"NATO" is western powder load data.
I have used WC844 with great success with hornady 55gn FMJ plinking fodder and it can deliver 1moa which was a,surprise for surplus and bulk bullets.
My notes got ruined when a pipe broke so I have lost my info.
I do remember though my crony testing for 223 pretty good.
Any of the M855 ammo I tested out of my 20" AR was high in velocity but usually deviating in velocity on the extreme side. The most consistent M855 I tested was,PPU
I found the mil spec testing info on armystudyguides.com I think.? Been a,while.
The only experience I have with WC846 is the most trusted reloaded I know said go with 844 he said it's cleaner and not as sensitive to changes in temp as 846. @ that time when I bought surplus or pull down it was a significant price difference vs "new" powder.
I paid 85$ 8# vs 159 for varget?
When it comes to plinking ammo I like to run the least amount of powder possible....especially inside 200 yards.
This is also why I made a slow transition to cast loads.
Will be working up a cast load to function in the M1 soon
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Not that this is relevant, since it likely was an issue with full-auto...
http://digitaledition.qwinc.com/publication/?i=120990 Page 36, left column
AR's have probably changed since those days, too.
http://digitaledition.qwinc.com/publication/?i=120990 Page 36, left column
AR's have probably changed since those days, too.
xtry51
NES Member
I only bought the 846 originally because the vendor I was using didnt have 844 in stock at one point. I had a bunch of surplus tracer I was reloading for training purposes mostly inside 100yds so I grabbed a few jugs of the 846 knowing the heads were going to be the limiting factor on accuracy and the distance was going to mean it really didn't matter. I was reloading that ammo for $130/1,000rds. Sadly I can't get that low anymore.
Once I'm through the surplus I have I'm likely just going to stick with stockpiling 4320 for future use. I've seen surplus around a little bit recently, but the prices are really high. Honestly if I wanted to reload cheaper .223 training ammo right now I'd probably use Varget because you can usually find it at SO for $20/lb.
Once I'm through the surplus I have I'm likely just going to stick with stockpiling 4320 for future use. I've seen surplus around a little bit recently, but the prices are really high. Honestly if I wanted to reload cheaper .223 training ammo right now I'd probably use Varget because you can usually find it at SO for $20/lb.
xtry51
NES Member
Additional info. I loaded some of the 27.3gr with CCI400s instead of 205s. I shot a bunch for two hours using some other ammo and the gun was fairly hot, then I dumped a mag of the these CCI400 loads and I get some cratering/flow on the primer strike indicating I was coming up on the limit for those cups. Well beyond what the Fed205s and CCI41s were doing.
I've since downloaded the rounds to 26.9gr as a standard load so I can use any primer and avoid any issues. I shot a group and they are still sub 2", so I'm good with that. I only have this one jug of 846 left, then I'll be onto my last jug of 844.
I've since downloaded the rounds to 26.9gr as a standard load so I can use any primer and avoid any issues. I shot a group and they are still sub 2", so I'm good with that. I only have this one jug of 846 left, then I'll be onto my last jug of 844.
xtry51
NES Member
Shot an OCW ladder with my last bin of WC844 today. Lot #91412.
Based on previous jugs I've had I loaded up 24.9, 25.3, 25.7, 26.1 and 26.5gr under a 55gr Hornady FMJ.
My results were a bit surprising as I initially guessed the 26.5gr load was going to be super hot. Well, I probably should have gone even higher because this wasn't the case and is pretty unusual for this powder in my experience with it.
Here's what I got for 5 shot group size @100yds, Wind gusting 5-10mph, 50°F
30rds of stock M193 to warm barrel, even pace 2-3 seconds between shots
Groups shot in the 5 rounds batches I made them in, slow fire ~5sec between shots
1 minute between groups with bolt open to keep barrel temp even (I just do it by feel, I keep it warm, but you can grab barrel and hold it bare handed)
WC846 26.9gr for Baseline - 1.39" (Right inline with my test above) bullseye, I zeroed gun to this ammo last week 50/200yd
WC844 24.9gr - 2.38" Left of center 3/4" high 1/2"
WC844 25.3gr - 2.10" Left of center 1/2" high 1/2"
WC844 25.7gr - 1.80" Center dead high 3/4"
WC844 26.1gr - 1.52" Center dead high 3/4
WC844 26.5gr - 0.75" Center dead high 1"
26.5 is a pretty high load at about 4% over where I normally stop. Primers just started to flatten a little at 26.1, but still nothing close to what I'm seeing on that WC846 load. No other pressure signs, brass all looks great, no extractor marks, no thinning line on the base. I think I could have gone definitely to 26.9 and 27.3 before cratering started to show on primers, and maybe even to 27.7gr. I'm using the CCI400 primers again as they are the softest cup I buy. I don't plan to shoot any higher loads. I'm good with sub MOA.
I'm pretty stoked about that accuracy result. I was going to be happy with whatever got me under 1.5".
I would not recommend loading other batches of WC844 above 25gr to start, certainly not going straight to 26.5gr. I'm certain on my previous jugs I would have been popping/piercing primers that high up.
Based on previous jugs I've had I loaded up 24.9, 25.3, 25.7, 26.1 and 26.5gr under a 55gr Hornady FMJ.
My results were a bit surprising as I initially guessed the 26.5gr load was going to be super hot. Well, I probably should have gone even higher because this wasn't the case and is pretty unusual for this powder in my experience with it.
Here's what I got for 5 shot group size @100yds, Wind gusting 5-10mph, 50°F
30rds of stock M193 to warm barrel, even pace 2-3 seconds between shots
Groups shot in the 5 rounds batches I made them in, slow fire ~5sec between shots
1 minute between groups with bolt open to keep barrel temp even (I just do it by feel, I keep it warm, but you can grab barrel and hold it bare handed)
WC846 26.9gr for Baseline - 1.39" (Right inline with my test above) bullseye, I zeroed gun to this ammo last week 50/200yd
WC844 24.9gr - 2.38" Left of center 3/4" high 1/2"
WC844 25.3gr - 2.10" Left of center 1/2" high 1/2"
WC844 25.7gr - 1.80" Center dead high 3/4"
WC844 26.1gr - 1.52" Center dead high 3/4
WC844 26.5gr - 0.75" Center dead high 1"
26.5 is a pretty high load at about 4% over where I normally stop. Primers just started to flatten a little at 26.1, but still nothing close to what I'm seeing on that WC846 load. No other pressure signs, brass all looks great, no extractor marks, no thinning line on the base. I think I could have gone definitely to 26.9 and 27.3 before cratering started to show on primers, and maybe even to 27.7gr. I'm using the CCI400 primers again as they are the softest cup I buy. I don't plan to shoot any higher loads. I'm good with sub MOA.
I'm pretty stoked about that accuracy result. I was going to be happy with whatever got me under 1.5".
I would not recommend loading other batches of WC844 above 25gr to start, certainly not going straight to 26.5gr. I'm certain on my previous jugs I would have been popping/piercing primers that high up.
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xtry51
NES Member
I'm full length resizing on a single stage RCBS with a Lee die. I trim on a Giraud, open the pocket using a chamfer tool running in my mini-lathe chuck at around 200RPM and hand prime on a RCBS or Lee hand primer. I'm obviously resizing at my bench, but usually trim, open pocket and prime while sitting on couch and watching TV or a movie.
My reloading setup for .223. Not exactly high dollar, but this is how I started and it's been working for about 4 years now![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
The press is a Lee 4 hole turret. I have two Lee powder drops and two Lee bullet seat dies. So a bullet for every two pulls. Pockets in the adjustable drop have been opened up a smidge with a dremmel to allow up to 27.5gr of ball powder in a single drop. Stock they only allow about 24.5gr. I get ±0.1gr total between the two consistently. I check both before every session by weighing out drops on my RCBS Chargemaster.
Here are the Hornady 55gr I'm using. I paid $479 for this box shipped. Vendor still has it listed at this price, but out of stock. They seem to come in every couple months and don't normally sell out quick.
Here's a couple pics of the rounds. Yes, it's mixed brass headstamp and steel is also mixed in. I don't change anything for the steel, it gets processed at the same time in the exact same way as the brass. You just don't get as many reloads out of it before you get neck cracks. Super hot loads maybe 3-4, lower 2600-2700fps maybe 6. All my groups posted in this thread are done using mixed brass including the steel.
You can see I'm barely getting a caliber diameter of seating depth to leave the rounds at 2.250 OAL and the entire cannular is still visible. I do not crimp.
My reloading setup for .223. Not exactly high dollar, but this is how I started and it's been working for about 4 years now
The press is a Lee 4 hole turret. I have two Lee powder drops and two Lee bullet seat dies. So a bullet for every two pulls. Pockets in the adjustable drop have been opened up a smidge with a dremmel to allow up to 27.5gr of ball powder in a single drop. Stock they only allow about 24.5gr. I get ±0.1gr total between the two consistently. I check both before every session by weighing out drops on my RCBS Chargemaster.
Here are the Hornady 55gr I'm using. I paid $479 for this box shipped. Vendor still has it listed at this price, but out of stock. They seem to come in every couple months and don't normally sell out quick.
Here's a couple pics of the rounds. Yes, it's mixed brass headstamp and steel is also mixed in. I don't change anything for the steel, it gets processed at the same time in the exact same way as the brass. You just don't get as many reloads out of it before you get neck cracks. Super hot loads maybe 3-4, lower 2600-2700fps maybe 6. All my groups posted in this thread are done using mixed brass including the steel.
You can see I'm barely getting a caliber diameter of seating depth to leave the rounds at 2.250 OAL and the entire cannular is still visible. I do not crimp.
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Nice, old timer I learned from had a old Hollywood turret press set up much like that.
I wish I bought more of the W844 powder when it was $80/8lbs and more of the hornady fmj when they where .045 cents each ..... surprise surprise that combo gave very good results on paper.
I only wish I was not hesitant on the "surplus" powder.
I wish I bought more of the W844 powder when it was $80/8lbs and more of the hornady fmj when they where .045 cents each ..... surprise surprise that combo gave very good results on paper.
I only wish I was not hesitant on the "surplus" powder.
xtry51
NES Member
I here that. $80 a jug is what I paid for what I have on hand. Now it's twice that for 8lbs.
ETA: $144/8lb from same vendor for 844 right now. Plus hazmat of course. For that price I can just buy Varget at $20/lb from local shops. The cheap surplus powder days are over for now.
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God has,blessed you if your finding Varget and for $20/#! $31 plus tax if it's on the shelf around me.
Vendors are still spotty. Biggest problem now is having enough powder in,stock to max out the order.
6/8# jugs under one haz/ship spreads the cost out.....only thing is they don't have six of anything I want in stock at one time!
844@$144 is no deal just a few year ago the,differential was worth it
$80 for 844 0r 169 for Varget.
Heck with some of the prices I see for powder I might as,well buy VV powders
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xtry51
NES Member
Shooters Outpost in Manchester, NH was selling it $20/lb this past winter. I picked up 8lbs then. I might get in there this week on Tues or Wed. I'll check on what they have it for now.
I have now been able to venture north since my 1st daughter was born. I have been exploring other powder options also.
I have a decent vendor or 3 that I have been using and we small circle of group buyers. We did a larger primer buy was spring. Got a good deal on wolf and cci primers.
We are ready for more powder...just need it to all come together.
I have a decent vendor or 3 that I have been using and we small circle of group buyers. We did a larger primer buy was spring. Got a good deal on wolf and cci primers.
We are ready for more powder...just need it to all come together.
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