Upon research.... some interesting variations...

[JustinEMT990662]

Ok, so after reading the questions in here and looking to update my website, I have been comparing what I was taught in my CCW class and what is actually in the law books...

1. I was told you cannot possess any handgun which was not registered too me. I can't find a law stating this.

2. We were told this is a CC state, but as we all know there is no law banning OC.

That's it for now, I will add more as I find em.

 

[robmcd]

Here's a response I received previously from the DPS on question #1:

It is legal to lend a pistol to another permit holder. Obviously each case would be fact specific as to if a transfer took place that would change ownership (requiring transfer paperwork).


Sergeant Douglas A. Hall
Connecticut State Police
Special Licensing and Firearms Unit
1111 Country Club Road
Middletown, CT 06457

Here's a link to more info regarding question #2 from the CT Board of Firearms Permit Examiners.

 

[JustinEMT990662]

Here's a response I received previously from the DPS on question #1:

It is legal to lend a pistol to another permit holder. Obviously each case would be fact specific as to if a transfer took place that would change ownership (requiring transfer paperwork).


Sergeant Douglas A. Hall
Connecticut State Police
Special Licensing and Firearms Unit
1111 Country Club Road
Middletown, CT 06457

Here's a link to more info regarding question #2 from the CT Board of Firearms Permit Examiners.

heheheh I love this line from that page:
1. Is there any statute prescribing that firearms must be carried concealed?

The answer is no. The law does not address this issue. But, with limited exceptions, it is illegal to carry a handgun, whether concealed or openly, without a permit, except in one's home or place of business (CGS § 29-35(a)).

try open carry and see what happens LOL

 

[robmcd]

heheheh I love this line from that page:
1. Is there any statute prescribing that firearms must be carried concealed?

The answer is no. The law does not address this issue. But, with limited exceptions, it is illegal to carry a handgun, whether concealed or openly, without a permit, except in one's home or place of business (CGS § 29-35(a)).

try open carry and see what happens LOL

I agree. Open carry = breach of peace charge, license/firearm confiscation, 2 years to get to gun court. Don't be the case law - conceal your handgun.

Did you notice the disclaimer at the beginning of their Q&A? Talk about non-committal !

 

[JustinEMT990662]

yeah no kidding, and it comes from a STATE website ... something like that does not belong on a government website unless it can be used as fact.

 

[Dmac82]

I want to quote this, mind you this is from a SUMMARY OF STATE GUN LAWS Dated May 2007. I would really like to know where this quote actually originated.

If someone can find this in the statutes or case law please share.

The permit to carry handguns allows people to carry them openly or concealed, but mature judgment, says the Board of Firearm Permit Examiners, dictates that (1) “every effort should be made to ensure that no gun is exposed to view or carried in any manner that would tend to alarm people who see it. . . [and] (2) no handgun should be carried unless carrying the gun at the time and place involved is prudent and proper in the circumstances. ”

REF:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0369.htm

The general feeling is that in public open carry is NOT permitted.

 

[JustinEMT990662]

I want to quote this, mind you this is from a SUMMARY OF STATE GUN LAWS Dated May 2007. I would really like to know where this quote actually originated.

If someone can find this in the statutes or case law please share.



REF:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0369.htm

The general feeling is that in public open carry is NOT permitted.

Here's the catch 22

"The permit to carry handguns allows people to carry them openly or concealed ..."

If there is no law against open carry, there should be no penalty for it. People being 'alarmed' is such a matter of perspective.

You can breast feed in public even if someone else is offended. Fat people can wear spandex even though people are offended. A group load of teenagers in "gang-like" attire loitering outside a street corner would alarm some people. Yet you won't find them being charged with breach of peace.

My point is, you want concealed carry, fine, put it on the books then. Don't be shady about it.

 

[buketduder]

It is not illegal..but unless the courts feel like charging police with "violating civil rights"..police will do whatever they feel..i don't think they care about the law..pretty soon they will be pulling over motorcycles if the rider is not wearing a helmet....

 

[buketduder]

I was in a vehicle once and went through a checkpoint and they told me I had to empty my beer...i refused..it is not illegal to have an open container of alcohol in the car..the cop did not seem to care...but did not force me to empty it.....many peopel assume a lot things are against the law..they think you cannot a firearm into a bar/police station, etc...

 

[JustinEMT990662]

I was in a vehicle once and went through a checkpoint and they told me I had to empty my beer...i refused..it is not illegal to have an open container of alcohol in the car..the cop did not seem to care...but did not force me to empty it.....many peopel assume a lot things are against the law..they think you cannot a firearm into a bar/police station, etc...

You can carry in a bar, but you really wouldn't want to. One drink and they could claim you were under the influence. It's one of those grey areas.

Sec. 53-206d. Carrying a firearm while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drug prohibited. Hunting while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drug or while impaired by the consumption of intoxicating liquor prohibited. (a)(1) No person shall carry a pistol, revolver, machine gun, shotgun, rifle or other firearm, which is loaded and from which a shot may be discharged, upon his person (A) while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or any drug, or both, or (B) while the ratio of alcohol in the blood of such person is ten-hundredths of one per cent or more of alcohol, by weight.

As far as police stations, the law states you cannot carry in a place where it is unlawful or unwanted by the controlling party.

(e) The issuance of any permit to carry a pistol or revolver does not thereby authorize the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver in any premises where the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the person who owns or exercises control over such premises.

Most police departments post that no weapons are allowed inside the building... but not all do.

EDIT: Regarding the open container ...

Sec. 53a-213. Drinking while operating motor vehicle: Class C misdemeanor. (a) A person is guilty of drinking while operating a motor vehicle when he drinks any alcoholic liquor while operating a motor vehicle upon a public highway of this state or upon any road of any specially chartered municipal association or of any district organized under the provisions of chapter 105, a purpose of which is the construction and maintenance of roads and sidewalks, or in any parking area for ten cars or more, or upon any private road on which a speed limit has been established in accordance with the provisions of section 14-218a or upon any school property. As used in this section, "alcoholic liquor" shall have the same meaning as in section 30-1.

This seems alot like the open carry thing ... LOL ... while you aren't observed drinking, they could INFER that you have been LOL ... ARGH another law in CT which is too unclear.

 

[dcmdon]

Justin,
He was referring to having an open container as a passenger. I'd say once every couple of weeks I give the keys to my wife and get in the car with her and the baby with a beer in my hand.

I'm not driving and it is 100% legal. No ifs ands or butts. (its also 100% responsible. I'm just a passenger)

Re Carrying in a Police Station. If they don't want you carrying, it has to be posted. Even then, it may not carry the full weight of the law. Just because some shift seargant decided he didn't want you in the building with a gun doesn't make it illegal.

Who is the controlling party? Probably the chief of police. If there is not some DOCUMENTED proclamation by the controling party, then its not law. Often times the controlling party of a municipal building is the public works director. So its not just as simple as some cop printing off a "no firearms" sign on the laser printer and sticking it on the door.

Botom line in CT re where you can carry, where you can't carry, and where you can kindof fudge it is very simple.

do not carry into a 2ndary school.
do not carry into a court house. (even though its not statutorially prohibited)

post office is illegal according to federal law. But really. if you are out running errands, whats the harm?

Bars - no law against it. There is a law against being impaired.
But forget about the law for a minute. Ethically, I want to be as sharp as possible if I am going to take the awesome responsibility of carrying a gun in public.

I carry into bars all the time. I've been doing it since college, but I don't drink when I carry. Not even 1.

 

[JustinEMT990662]

Justin,
He was referring to having an open container as a passenger. I'd say once every couple of weeks I give the keys to my wife and get in the car with her and the baby with a beer in my hand.

I'm not driving and it is 100% legal. No ifs ands or butts. (its also 100% responsible. I'm just a passenger)

Re Carrying in a Police Station. If they don't want you carrying, it has to be posted. Even then, it may not carry the full weight of the law. Just because some shift seargant decided he didn't want you in the building with a gun doesn't make it illegal.

Who is the controlling party? Probably the chief of police. If there is not some DOCUMENTED proclamation by the controling party, then its not law. Often times the controlling party of a municipal building is the public works director. So its not just as simple as some cop printing off a "no firearms" sign on the laser printer and sticking it on the door.

Botom line in CT re where you can carry, where you can't carry, and where you can kindof fudge it is very simple.

do not carry into a 2ndary school.
do not carry into a court house. (even though its not statutorially prohibited)

post office is illegal according to federal law. But really. if you are out running errands, whats the harm?

Bars - no law against it. There is a law against being impaired.
But forget about the law for a minute. Ethically, I want to be as sharp as possible if I am going to take the awesome responsibility of carrying a gun in public.

I carry into bars all the time. I've been doing it since college, but I don't drink when I carry. Not even 1.

I agree with you entirely. But, let's be realistic. If someone shift Sergeant prints off a sign that says "No Weapons Beyond This Point" do you REALLy want the agony of arguing the charge? And then, what if you find the controlling authority has had a rule for this on the books since 1972 but never had it posted. Eventhough Sgt Dumbledor doesn't know about the rule, he posted a sign in accordance with it and now you have broken the law.

As a general practice, I don't carry in the following places:
1. Court
2. Police Stations or Municipal buildings
3. Anyplace where I know there is a no weapons policy (be it posted or for employees)

When I do carry to places which serve alcohol, I am very sure to not drink, period. Soda, water, sure ... alcy? no.

 

[dcmdon]

Justin,
When I carry into a PD, I don't announce it. I just walk in, do my business and walk out.

The gun is concealed, so nobody knows or cares. Typically, I'm just picking up CT pistol permit application forms anyway.

Don

 

[JustinEMT990662]

Justin,
When I carry into a PD, I don't announce it. I just walk in, do my business and walk out.

The gun is concealed, so nobody knows or cares. Typically, I'm just picking up CT pistol permit application forms anyway.

Don

Well I would hope so, but you know how it goes, there's always that 1 in 100 chance someone will figure it out, either via a visable silouette (my spelling bites today LOL) or by metal detector, etc... the point of the argument was that while under the law its the controlling responsability to post the rules regarding carry on the premisis, do you really want to even go down that road? I prefer to leave my gun home when going to places where I know it is likely to be a big issue if discovered.

 

[dcmdon]

Justin,
I don't know how old you are, or how long you have been carrying, but you will find that the paranoia goes away after a while.

Nobody is looking to see if you have a gun. Even cops, in most circumstances. If they've pulled you over to talk to you, its an entirely different story.

But the guy sitting at the desk, behind the bulletproof glass is not checking you out to see if you are carrying.

If the building is clearly marked, no weapons, then I agree with you. The place to argue that point is in the town managers/mayors/first selectmans office. Not face down on the ground.

But if it is not marked, then you are DEFINITELY legal to walk into a police station.

As far as metal detectors, I would just tell the operator that I was legally carrying before I went through.

The CT courts have metal detectors in them. Shortly after college (1992 ish) I had to go into a CT court for a speeding ticket. I told the man that I had a concealed handgun. He led me to a room and we locked it away.

They won't do that anymore. They will tell you that you need to put it in your car. Either way, you don't ever to want to try to sneak it past for obvious reasons.

Don

p.s. Here's an interesting story about court security. When I got divorced in 1997, I went to the court in a jacket and tie, carrying a brief case. When I got in line for the metal detector, the balif motioned to me and said "right this way counselor". Following his direction, I went right around the metal detector and everyone in line.

It was family court, where emotions run high and smart people do dumb things. I couldn't believe it. I could have had an uzi in my brief case.

 

[JustinEMT990662]

I've been carrying for a few years. I am just one of those people who tends to view things from the perspective of "if I was trying to make an example out of some one, how would I do it" ... and then I try to give people as little a chance to make an example out of me LOL.

I hear what you're saying. I used to work as a police dispatcher, and until another dispatcher messed up, we were allowed to carry, can't now. Not posted, but I know there is a standing order that civilians aren't allowed to carry at this particular police dept.

I don't really carry alot. Mostly when I feel I am going to a place where I might need it. That, and my G-23 is not comfortable with the taclight on it ... need a new holster.

 

[dcmdon]

Justin,
as far as you carrying as a dispatcher. You need to understand something. There is a difference between breaking the law and violating an employers policy.

You are going to work in a public building that, unless marked, it is perfectly legal for civilians to carry guns into.

As an employer, they can have more strict rules. However, if you were caught, you would be subject to employer disciplinary action, not arrest.

I used to bar tend when I was in college. We had a "safe workplace" policy that barred employees from carrying guns. However, there was no prohibition against guns on the property. As a bartender, I was there at 3:00 AM, with piles of cash in a not great part of New Haven, at a time when the murder rate in that city was 3x what it is now.

For me it was well worth the risk of losing my job.

Don

p.s. one other thing. Don't listen to what the cops tell you the law is. I've found that most cops don't actually know the law. I actually had a cop tell me it was illegal to carry a gun in my car (with a pistol permit). Keep in mind, things vary state to state. Everything i said applies to CT. Nowhere else.

 

[JustinEMT990662]

Right, but as the statute reads if you are aware guns are not allowed, posted or not, and they can prove that you are aware, then you are in fact violating the law. Now, as you stated, the person who originally states there is to be no carrying would be the controlling party of the property in question; but neither here nor there, if you know they don't want you to carry on the property and you do so, you have broken the law.

(e) The issuance of any permit to carry a pistol or revolver does not thereby authorize the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver in any premises where the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the person who owns or exercises control over such premises.

That's my whole point.

PS - I don't blame you LOL, I would have too. I just tend to be very conservative. Not that I think I am doing anything wrong, but with the way this state is, I don't want to give them an excuse to take my gun and permit away and then have to wait 2 years to fight to get them back.

 

[tmitney]

I believe the legislative intent on that was to make it clear that if there is a "no gun rule" somewhere, your permit does not trump that rule and allow you disregard said rule. It essentially allows the person(s) responsible for the property the ability to tell you to leave if you have a gun, even though you have done nothing wrong. I personally do not believe you would be breaking the law, though (save for town ordinance or law that MAKES it illegal to carry gun somewhere.) If I carried a legal gun with a valid permit to a mall where they don't allow guns, what would be the criminal charge? Carry pistol w/o permit? I've got a permit; I don't think a sign posted on private property will invalidate my permit entirely; don;t believe that is what the statute intended. I say not illegal. My opinion....

 

[tmitney]

Got to thinking....criminal trespass maybe? I'll have to check on that one, i believe that would be a stretch.

 

[dcmdon]

Maybe.

I used to carry into the Meadow's outdoor music theater in Hartford. They would pat us down before entering. I would carry my J frame in a pair of thunderware, then then durring my first piss break, I'd slip into a stall and transfer the gun (already in and never removed from a pocket holster) into my pocket.

The main risk there was the long walk in the dark from the venue to the parking lots that could be 1/2 mile away. Despite the pat down, there were never any signs on the entrance telling me that I could not carry a gun inside. There was something about "illegal weapons". But my gun was not an illegal weapon.

Don

p.s. Part of it comes down to an old truism. I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

 

[TheBigC]

I believe the legislative intent on that was to make it clear that if there is a "no gun rule" somewhere, your permit does not trump that rule and allow you disregard said rule. It essentially allows the person(s) responsible for the property the ability to tell you to leave if you have a gun, even though you have done nothing wrong. I personally do not believe you would be breaking the law, though (save for town ordinance or law that MAKES it illegal to carry gun somewhere.) If I carried a legal gun with a valid permit to a mall where they don't allow guns, what would be the criminal charge? Carry pistol w/o permit? I've got a permit; I don't think a sign posted on private property will invalidate my permit entirely; don;t believe that is what the statute intended. I say not illegal. My opinion....

The charge would most likely be trespassing. And that's of course if you knew the rules. I did not know that a sign with size 12 font on a 40 inch poster has legal binding.

 

[dcmdon]

In that case, the whole "reasonable man" defense would come up.

Would a reasonable man, excercising reasonable care have seen the sign?

Same thing with the meadows concert. I've since found out that on the back of every ticket is a contract that it says you accept by using the ticket. It says no weapons of any kind. But get this. The font is so small that neither I nor my 35 yr old wife could read it without holding it under a magnifying glass in a very bright room.

I'd say thats not legally binding either.

 

[tmitney]

Yeah. Think we all feel pretty much the same. The only way anyone would know we had a gun is if we used the gun. If we used the gun, that means something went really wrong...and the trespass charge, if any, means very little to us at that point.

 

[dcmdon]

Agreed. Again, back to that whole "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" logic.

With that said. I have tremendous respect for the individual rights of private property owners. If they don't want people carrying on their property, then thats their perogative.

Remember, with private property, access can be completely arbitrary. I could say no one is alowed in whose name begins with a J. Its perfectly within the law.