Underage children in a gun shop?

[Len-2A Training]

I apologize for not responding sooner Len or being more clear in what I meant. If you read my earlier post in the beginning I said it wasn't illegal for kids to be in shops. That being said there are plenty of shops out there with racks of firearms on the floor all over the store and hanging which are within the reach of kids. I agree totally that if your kids cant behave they shouldn't be in shops. But kids are kids just like accidents happen and even the best behaved children can pick up handle firearms unattended. Especially when they are given the freedom to poke around the shop. If dad is looking elsewhere/ handling firearms in the case he cant be "supervising/overseeing" the unlicensed person/child. Which was the point. When I referenced liquor/tobacco (never said ammunition or magazines) the laws are clear and written in a way that avoids any misinterpretation. The intention is clear so no one can say "oh I was just doing this". If what I am getting from you is correct (if I am wrong please correct me) The supervision by the license holder is where the child derives the ability to handle firearms. No supervising parent no handling, correct?

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You read me correctly and for small children I would advocate that the parent be with the child and not let them wander off by themselves if there is product where indeed they could get hurt (or hurt others) as you describe. That's part of proper parenting. I don't think there ever has been any case law clarifying how close someone has to be in cases like this. For instance if the child is 14-15 yo and acts responsibly, if they walk 10' away to look at a gun, I wouldn't see a problem with that . . . 3-8 yo, yes I think in general that would be inappropriate.

 

[UNSUB]

You read me correctly and for small children I would advocate that the parent be with the child and not let them wander off by themselves if there is product where indeed they could get hurt (or hurt others) as you describe. That's part of proper parenting. I don't think there ever has been any case law clarifying how close someone has to be in cases like this. For instance if the child is 14-15 yo and acts responsibly, if they walk 10' away to look at a gun, I wouldn't see a problem with that . . . 3-8 yo, yes I think in general that would be inappropriate.

Sorry viewers there will be no fight. Put your popcorn away.

I should have posted more clearly. My fault. My thought was which I was hoping you would speak to is can a licensee who is handling a firearm themselves be considered supervising a minor at the same time. I know its seems like an extreme situation but those are the stories we seem to be seeing these days where we go from someone getting pinched on a technicality that others on the forum treat as begnign "and don't worry Maura's not hiding in every corner". Its hard not to feel that way these days.

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[FrugalFannie]

Theres no MA Law preventing children being in shops. Just like any other controlled item (liquor, tobacco products) they aren't allowed to handle the controlled merchandise. Now if you are talking public hot tubs there is MGL regarding children being in them but parents routinely ignore that one to their own kids detriment.

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stop spreading BS. that's what politicians and bad LEOs are for.

 

[slap shot]

It's that dern slippery slope. I've learned here that you can't infer or try to guess what's implied. The question was "is it illegal?" Simple answer is no.

 

[UNSUB]

stop spreading BS. that's what politicians and bad LEOs are for.

PennyPincher please come down from your soapdish Len2A and I already sorted this out.

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[ldi]

I've been in the number of gun shops in different states with my kids and encountered nothing but positive reinforcement of learning, education on the subject in hand and great costumer service and understanding from the shop owners and employees.
With the understanding that my kids are well mannered.

 

[Len-2A Training]

"While supervised" is subjective, so it is open to interpretation by anyone. If a dealer hands a gun to a minor and stays there, s/he is supervising the child. I don't interpret "supervision" as requiring both hands free from the supervisor. When I'm teaching on the range, I'll supervise 2 shooters at a time (not more than that for a BFS type class). I assess this as adequate, others may disagree. In general I would prefer not to teach children on the range, it is a personal preference only. However, when Scouter-Rick asked me to supervise Abbey Oakley (who was 13 at the time IIRC) doing the NRA Personal Protection in the Home Instructor class drills, I did it without hesitation. Abbey didn't need any supervision, as she was very well disciplined and more safety conscious than adults more than 2x her age! So I would (and have) certainly make exceptions for a child that I deem as well-behaved and extremely safety conscious.

 

[LTCRN]

Would you please cite the specific law that prohibits children from handling "controlled merchandise" (guns, ammo, mags) in a gun shop? I'm all ears and love to learn about new things.

Like a previous poster commented, just go to Norwood Armory and ask him, he knows ALL the laws regarding children, firearms, and firearms components!

 

[UNSUB]

"While supervised" is subjective, so it is open to interpretation by anyone. If a dealer hands a gun to a minor and stays there, s/he is supervising the child. I don't interpret "supervision" as requiring both hands free from the supervisor. When I'm teaching on the range, I'll supervise 2 shooters at a time (not more than that for a BFS type class). I assess this as adequate, others may disagree. In general I would prefer not to teach children on the range, it is a personal preference only. However, when Scouter-Rick asked me to supervise Abbey Oakley (who was 13 at the time IIRC) doing the NRA Personal Protection in the Home Instructor class drills, I did it without hesitation. Abbey didn't need any supervision, as she was very well disciplined and more safety conscious than adults more than 2x her age! So I would (and have) certainly make exceptions for a child that I deem as well-behaved and extremely safety conscious.

Thanks, response appreciated.

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[Len-2A Training]

Like a previous poster commented, just go to Norwood Armory and ask him, he knows ALL the laws regarding children, firearms, and firearms components!

RIGHT!!

Ignorance amongst dealers is so deep! And you can't educate those that refuse to learn and be educated.

 

[ldi]

Thanks, response appreciated.

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+1

 

[noxin]

Little pamphlets put out by anti-gun gov't orgs usually will do a very good job of MIS-representing the actual law.

Here's the law and as far as I know has not been superseded by any other law or juniors/Boy Scout shooting programs wouldn't be able to exist.

MGL C. 140 S. 129C(m):
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section129C



To me (IANAL) "examination" when a parent with LTC is present seems to NOT exclude "in a gun shop".

I missed there was a Mass law. When I googled youth handgun safety act, it brought me to https://www.atf.gov/file/58806/download which references 18 U.S.C. 922(x) and that's what I based my statement on.

 

[Gidge]

So there's 2 replies that refer to the law specifically, the rest are basically saying, 'OP asked a stupid question, of course kids are allowed in gun shops legally' Do I have that straight?

This is Massachusetts where EVERYTHING is illegal.

You see, a certain someone has an ex wife that would figuratively rape this certain someone with the knowledge of a hint of stepping out of line.

There is no comfort living in a state where law is able to be "reinterpreted" by the likes of Maura Hitler. IANAL, so your mileage may vary.