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Two Dead, Three Critically Injured After Gunman Opens Fire at California Restaurant
- Thread starter DukeNukem
- Start date
AMEN!
While I agree with you 100% about carrying, this is another typical article with very few details. We don't know if this is just some nutbag random attack, of if the shooter had some sort of beef with his victims. Since the shooter offed himself we can only hope he is rotting in hell.
NOPE not at all. I was merely suggesting we just don't know if it was random, or if the victims had reason to be concerned.
W
wolf223
THIS
remember, if I or anyone else REALLY wanted to kill any of you high speed commandoes. i'm going to do it at about 50 yards with an Aimpoint, OR i'm going to pull the fire alarm and pick you off as you get to the door.
see what i'm saying?
the gun does NOT guarantee survival... it's just a tool for the "unprepared" criminal... not the guys in full body armor and AKs
My home town. ![[crying]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/006.gif "Crying [crying]")
I was just out there with my family last month. While it's one of those rare places in California where most anyone can get a carry permit (after jumping through a lot of hoops, of course), it's still gone completely to hell since I lived there. Several years ago my mother sold the house I grew up in, which was occupied by some crack head tenants at the time, and her parents' home where I spent a lot of time playing, after the tenant was shot in the head by some 15yo gang-banger because she wouldn't let her 13yo join a gang. The restaurant they're talking about is about 2 miles from one of my brothers' house; if it had been a couple of miles further east, my other brother might well have been the first responder. My impression is that if about half the population were to suffer fatal accidents this weekend, or just drop dead, it could be a much nicer place. It used to be a really nice place.
![[banghead]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/045.gif "Bang Head [banghead]")
1911 - Don't leave home without it.
Ken
I was just out there with my family last month. While it's one of those rare places in California where most anyone can get a carry permit (after jumping through a lot of hoops, of course), it's still gone completely to hell since I lived there. Several years ago my mother sold the house I grew up in, which was occupied by some crack head tenants at the time, and her parents' home where I spent a lot of time playing, after the tenant was shot in the head by some 15yo gang-banger because she wouldn't let her 13yo join a gang. The restaurant they're talking about is about 2 miles from one of my brothers' house; if it had been a couple of miles further east, my other brother might well have been the first responder. My impression is that if about half the population were to suffer fatal accidents this weekend, or just drop dead, it could be a much nicer place. It used to be a really nice place.1911 - Don't leave home without it.
Ken
Guy comes in a eatery with guns,only you don't know he has guns.
Guy opens fire while your back is turned,firing at some people you don't know.
This guy has 2 weapons,at the ready pointing.
You have a gun.
What do you do ?
I have no idea what I would do,but I think carrying a gun at that instant would do nothing..Unless of course you plan on taking the guy out.
Do you plan on taking the shooter out ?
I don't carry 24/7,matter of fact I rarely carry..Unless I am at the range,bunch of nutbags with guns there.
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No time to be a hero really. Duck, cover and assess the situation while protecting you and yours.
This. Your first responsibility to to protect the people you're responsible for (wife, kids, family, etc). After they're out of the line of fire, if you want to play hero, good luck. I hope that whatever the outcome is it's worth it.
This!
xtry51
NES Member
![[slap]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/025.gif "Slap [slap]")
I'm gonna go ahead and assume you don't have kids, because if you do and you wouldn't try to stop that piece of s*** from murdering little children in front of you I'm pretty much ashamed of your existence. If you can in any way try to stop anyone from killing kids I'd hope you'd do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and assume you don't have kids, because if you do and you wouldn't try to stop that piece of s*** from murdering little children in front of you I'm pretty much ashamed of your existence. If you can in any way try to stop anyone from killing kids I'd hope you'd do it.
Yep! If you don't at least make some effort to let those little ones grow up and have some semblance of a life, then I gotta wonder what makes you tick.
W
wolf223
i'd love for Jim Conway or any of the NEshooter instructors to comment on this.
because, "out here in the real-world"
WHEN and IF a crazy guy wants to shoot up a mall, a crazy guy, YOU (and that includes me) are DEAD.
there are a few mitigating factors, such as the distance between YOU (me) and the shooter, the ability to return fire w/o killing a 13 year old girl who is out for a mall trip with her girlfriends.... ect. ect..
there IS a reason why LEO's train for the "active shooter" scenareos. but again, and again, having a GAT inside my waistband is nothing when Romeo wants to kill Juliet and any bystanders.. it's NOT going to matter, unless you are NEO and can dodge bullets when Agent Smith is coming for you.
i really worry about some you guys and gals... having a gun means nothing against a prepared and unstable opponent.
because, "out here in the real-world"
WHEN and IF a crazy guy wants to shoot up a mall, a crazy guy, YOU (and that includes me) are DEAD.
there are a few mitigating factors, such as the distance between YOU (me) and the shooter, the ability to return fire w/o killing a 13 year old girl who is out for a mall trip with her girlfriends.... ect. ect..
there IS a reason why LEO's train for the "active shooter" scenareos. but again, and again, having a GAT inside my waistband is nothing when Romeo wants to kill Juliet and any bystanders.. it's NOT going to matter, unless you are NEO and can dodge bullets when Agent Smith is coming for you.
i really worry about some you guys and gals... having a gun means nothing against a prepared and unstable opponent.
Perhaps they should continue trying to disarm America anyway since this guy had a lengthy criminal background including assault .... Or we could just focus on keeping criminals in jail and enforcing laws.
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Maybe. Maybe we can escape. Maybe we can shoot at the BG while he is distracted. (LEOs
have done it all the time, no reason why an armed citizen couldn't. ) Maybe we'll win the death
lottery and be the first person shot. Who knows. There are no guarantees.
I think it depends on the context of the scenario and the timeline. There are numerous possibilities
here- if it all happened in a few seconds there probably isn't a damned thing you could do
about it. This isn't like a guy holding up a store clerk at gunpoint waiting for the clerk to give him
the money, giving someone time to "do something". (or not).
Having a gun (and knowing how to use it) is useful but it's never a panacea. It's still way better than not having one.
-Mike
This. So simple it's stupid.
W
wolf223
if he arrived on a bicycle, then it's OBVIOUS we need to ban those evil vehicles...
mike (drgrant) i agree.... again, i guess having a faith or not giving a damn (me) is what it is.... if it's your (my) time to go, it's time to go....
to quote chappelle... "you can't beat fate n***a"
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
I'm gonna go ahead and assume you don't have kids, because if you do and you wouldn't try to stop that piece of s*** from murdering little children in front of you I'm pretty much ashamed of your existence. If you can in any way try to stop anyone from killing kids I'd hope you'd do it.
I'm guessing you are serious,so I will reply..and you just keep assuming.
I don't live my life like a fantasy book,and I also have never taken a class where some guy who reads books by Masaad Ayoob holds a class and makes you believe you are a superhero with a gun.
Although I am not ashamed of your existence like you are mine,because without superhero e-commandos like you,the internet would be a boring place.
In your e-world,what would you do in a situation of some guy holding a gun to a childs head ?
Are you telling everyone here that you would pull out your e-penis and pull a headshot on the gunman with massive adrenaline flowing through your veins,risking the life of the child ?
You would pretty much have to,correct ?
Me,I would just asses the situation and act accordingly as to not endanger anyones life with internet heroics..
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W
wolf223
c'mon now!!! ![[angry2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/019.gif "Angry2 [angry2]")
we all have "go kits" in our cars with body armor, ARs, MRE's, radios and chest rigs to resolve the situation before LE gets there...
where have you been?
we all have "go kits" in our cars with body armor, ARs, MRE's, radios and chest rigs to resolve the situation before LE gets there...
where have you been?
I hope I can live to be an old man and go to my grave never having to be posed with such a situation. So my master plan is to hope I'm among the majority of the population and will never NEED my gun.
J
Jose
Once my family is under the table or under some sort of cover/concealment, I'm pretty sure I am going to try to stop whoever is shooting up the place.
All those who are willing to bet their families' lives that the shooter is not there for mass casualties go ahead and go about your lives unarmed 99% of the time or just sit under the table.
If I can get mine out immediately though, I am gone. I do what I do for mine not for society. Society is rotten and not worth saving anyway.
All those who are willing to bet their families' lives that the shooter is not there for mass casualties go ahead and go about your lives unarmed 99% of the time or just sit under the table.
If I can get mine out immediately though, I am gone. I do what I do for mine not for society. Society is rotten and not worth saving anyway.
kevin9
NES Member
Yet another case of some douchebag getting the order wrong.
Regarding what one should do in this situation, I carry wherever I can. It gives me an option; no more, no less. Whether that option gets exercised is situationally dependent. If that makes me a cowboy in some of you people's eyes then git along little doggie.
Regarding what one should do in this situation, I carry wherever I can. It gives me an option; no more, no less. Whether that option gets exercised is situationally dependent. If that makes me a cowboy in some of you people's eyes then git along little doggie.
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I'd rather have one than not have one. You never know how a situation will play out and having that tool available could be a very good thing.
Armed civilians have stopped active shooters before. We could probably learn a lot from Israel.
http://old.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel200409022215.asp
This guy claims that many active shooter situations are ended by civilians. (He doesn't cite sources though, so grain of salt warning...)
http://officerresource.com/2009/07/solo-officer-entry-for-active-shooters-ron-borsch-qa-part-1/
Armed civilians have stopped active shooters before. We could probably learn a lot from Israel.
http://old.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel200409022215.asp
This guy claims that many active shooter situations are ended by civilians. (He doesn't cite sources though, so grain of salt warning...)
http://officerresource.com/2009/07/solo-officer-entry-for-active-shooters-ron-borsch-qa-part-1/
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dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Ah, yes... the typical NES "article about a shooter" thread:
1 - post article about shooting
2 - someone mentions about carrying 24x7
3 - someone else points out that you can't live in condition 3 24x7 and that a gun won't help if the shooter catches you with your back turned.
4 - next, there's the "do I take him out if he's not aiming at me?" question.
5 - question anyone who says "no" by saying that "you're not a parent, you couldn't possibly understand".
6 - someone (usually Wolf223 & Greg, lately) tries to insert some sanity... and gets jumped on for it.
These are getting really predictable.![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
I think that most of us hope this, too. But carry anyway. "Trust, but verify".
1 - post article about shooting
2 - someone mentions about carrying 24x7
3 - someone else points out that you can't live in condition 3 24x7 and that a gun won't help if the shooter catches you with your back turned.
4 - next, there's the "do I take him out if he's not aiming at me?" question.
5 - question anyone who says "no" by saying that "you're not a parent, you couldn't possibly understand".
6 - someone (usually Wolf223 & Greg, lately) tries to insert some sanity... and gets jumped on for it.
These are getting really predictable.
I think that most of us hope this, too. But carry anyway. "Trust, but verify".
xtry51
NES Member
I think I need a soap box smiley. Begin rant:
Greg my point is I don't believe if in that situation I would necessarily survive, however I would put my life up in exchange for a child's because I have three kids of my own.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"
While you can't plan for the vast majority of real life situations, and we all hope that we never have to be in said situation, I think it's a bit naive to believe you can just hangout and do nothing when someone walks into a restaurant and starts shooting people. In such a situation it's best to assume he's there to kill all of you, not just a select few before he offs himself. It's the same reason you would shoot someone who breaks into your house. You don't assume they're just there to steal a toaster and leave.
As for the situation of holding a child hostage, there's many more factors there. Did he already shoot others including children before taking the hostage? If so and you're stuck within his line of fire, it may be best to take your chances and try to shoot rather than wait for him to decide who he wants to shoot next, having already shown no remorse.
That's a very tough situational call that can only be made in the moment. It's not something you can train for. Self preservation is a tough instinct to plan around. I have realistic expectations that if ever in a situation that requires use of my gun I may not survive. To think otherwise is foolish. My comments on this specific situation is had I been there I would have returned fire to protect unarmed people.
I'm not saying you should be required to do the same, nor that you should agree with my position. I was simply stating that I'm less apt to be a fan of yours if you think it's OK to watch an unarmed family get shot and not do something to stop it when there's a CHANCE you could make a difference, no matter how small.
It also helps IMO to remember that the police are under no obligation to come to your aid in such a situation. They are perfectly in line with current law to sit in the car and wait for the shoter to run out of ammo while you're inside the restaurant getting killed one by one. And no, I'm not taking cheap shots at all LEOs. I personally know two locals who are great, but that doesn't mean that all will feel the same sense of duty in such a situation.
![[horse]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/026.gif "Beat a dead horse [horse]")
End of rant...Oh, and I believe I did mention in a thread a few months ago that I love arguing and playing devil's advocate. So I expect most people will read my drivel here and go on living their lives their own way
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
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