Turkey Guns

Understood. It's not about buying a lighter gauge though. It's about handloading getting better shells in smaller payloads and not getting the snot beat out of you by 3.5"mags but dropping to smaller gauges does make it nice carrying the lighter guns around
 
My one takeaway from this thread is that more people than I was aware can't handle the recoil of shooting 3-5 3.5" turkey shells a year.
 
Tiktock said:
My one takeaway from this thread is that more people than I was aware can't handle the recoil of shooting 3-5 3.5" turkey shells a year.
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People hunt for different reasons. Some enjoy the challenge of finding a better load in a lighter gauge that patterns well. Some of us don't subscribe to the addage that "if this tool doesn't work get a bigger hammer". It's not about not being able to "handle" the 3.5 inch loads
.....It's a bout why......What......How.....And experimenting. For many it's not about just blowing a turkeys head off with the biggest shell money can buy off the shelf at cabellas.....But aparently for some it is.

I'm pretty sure there were hunters harvesting turkeys well before Magnum blend and 3.5 in loads were around. I've said it before......Hunting ammo and carry amo is akin to fishing lures........Gotta market the next wonder lure....Or load.
 
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whacko said:
People hunt for different reasons. Some enjoy the challenge of finding a better load in a lighter gauge that patterns well. Some of us don't subscribe to the addage that "if this tool doesn't work get a bigger hammer". It's not about not being able to "handle" the 3.5 inch loads
.....It's a bout why......What......How.....And experimenting. For many it's not about just blowing a turkeys head off with the biggest shell money can buy......But aparently for some it is.

I'm pretty sure there were hunters harvesting turkeys well before Magnum blend and 3.5 in loads were around.
Click to expand...

Thats all fine....I was just commenting on most justification for what you've been talking about focused on getting "beat up" by the recoil of larger shells. Its literally less than 6 shots a year. If you have other non-hunting related reasons like you like building up loads and patterning as a reloading hobby thats great I just hadnt seen many of them mentioned.

I shoot 3.5's because they have given me the highest pellet counts in the tightest groups across ranges I've tested and I'm not willing to invest a ton of time into maximizing reloads in a smaller gun when I can handle the recoil just fine and the reality is that in 99.9% of turkey hunting situations you could take them with quite literally any shotgun and load in the world.

If recoil isnt your motivating factor, what is the desire to go from a 12 to a 20 or a 20 to a 28 if youre claiming you can achieve the same patterns and loads. Assume all else equal you cold use the same reloading techniques and patterning on a 3.5 shell and there no math on earth that tells me you wouldnt end up with more pellets and denser groups if you worked those rounds the same as youre working your 28s. So if the motivation is clearly not end-game performance and youre saying its not recoil avoidance...what is it? Simple experimentation is a fine answer but I'm not getting that sense from you.
 
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Tiktock said:
Thats all fine....I was just commenting on most justification for what you've been talking about focused on getting "beat up" by the recoil of larger shells. Its literally less than 6 shots a year. If you have other non-hunting related reasons like you like building up loads and patterning as a reloading hobby thats great I just hadnt seen many of them mentioned.

I shoot 3.5's because they have given me the highest pellet counts in the tightest groups across ranges I've tested and I'm not willing to invest a ton of time into maximizing reloads in a smaller gun when I can handle the recoil just fine and the reality is that in 99.9% of turkey hunting situations you could take them with quite literally any shotgun and load in the world.

If recoil isnt your motivating factor, what is the desire to go from a 12 to a 20 or a 20 to a 28 if youre claiming you can achieve the same patterns and loads. Assume all else equal you cold use the same reloading techniques and patterning on a 3.5 shell and there no math on earth that tells me you wouldnt end up with more pellets and denser groups if you worked those rounds the same as youre working your 28s. So if the motivation is clearly not end-game performance and youre saying its not recoil avoidance...what is it? Simple experimentation is a fine answer but I'm not getting that sense from you.
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A 20 gauge is a lighter gun physically to take to the field. A 20 gauge is what some people have. A 20 like you said will take turkey in 99% of hunting situations provided you do your part.

I have 12s and 20s in my safe.....I've found my 20 to pattern very well enough to take a turkey at 40 yards. I plan to hunt in an area with trees and brush.......And 40 yards will be enough. So why take a 12 that is heavier to walk with and 3.5 inches when the 20 will more than do the job in the situation I'm presented with. Yes.....I'm saying why waste $ patterning my 12 with a new choke......and $2 a shell ammo when the gun I've tested is perfect for the job.

I've seen plenty of hunting buddies and acquaintances just opt straight for a 12 and 3.5 inch lightfields as their first tested ammo......Shoot a box of 5 at the pattern board and grunt and groan about the pain......And say.....Good enough. Me......I experimented the other way.......Started with a 20 and got 40 yard proficiency which is more than I need for the woods I'll hunt and am fine with it. I've taken one Tom with it 2 years ago at about 20 yards and it was clean harvest.

I guess I'm not akin to your statement boarder line calling people pansies for not being able to "handle" a 12 gauge 3 or 3.5 inch load. [smile]. Some of us can handle it.....I've shot em (out of a buddies gun) and thought.......Wow......My 20 is more comfortable. And to me that make me smart.....Not a pansy.
 
Tiktock said:
Thats all fine....I was just commenting on most justification for what you've been talking about focused on getting "beat up" by the recoil of larger shells. Its literally less than 6 shots a year. If you have other non-hunting related reasons like you like building up loads and patterning as a reloading hobby thats great I just hadnt seen many of them mentioned.

I shoot 3.5's because they have given me the highest pellet counts in the tightest groups across ranges I've tested and I'm not willing to invest a ton of time into maximizing reloads in a smaller gun when I can handle the recoil just fine and the reality is that in 99.9% of turkey hunting situations you could take them with quite literally any shotgun and load in the world.

If recoil isnt your motivating factor, what is the desire to go from a 12 to a 20 or a 20 to a 28 if youre claiming you can achieve the same patterns and loads. Assume all else equal you cold use the same reloading techniques and patterning on a 3.5 shell and there no math on earth that tells me you wouldnt end up with more pellets and denser groups if you worked those rounds the same as youre working your 28s. So if the motivation is clearly not end-game performance and youre saying its not recoil avoidance...what is it? Simple experimentation is a fine answer but I'm not getting that sense from you.
Click to expand...

You cannot take load data and just swap it around using the same technique. You have got to have loads made up then sent off and pressure tested. This stuff is a totally different animal. The people that sell the shot have loads worked up that you follow by. When u buy the shot they give you the load data specific to the gauge you use and you follow it to a T. It can be very dangerous to alter a worked up tested load.

Now reasons for shooting this vs your 3.5". First is weight of the gun. I can take my 28ga and anyone from my cousins 12yo son can use it to my wife on up to elder fellas. When you set up on a bird and you wait for a while to get him in to your set a gun gets heavy when your in a really position with the gun up the whole time. That's the primary purpose of cutting gun weight. It can work for all Ages.

2nd your 3.5" load won't touch a 20ga pattern and the smaller gauge pellet per shell will Out shoot your 3.5" on avg pellet counts. Therefore making my 12ga make your 3.5" shell look like a pansy and you a goof for shooting that big of unneeded shell. All In while my 12ga shell is not even a 3"!

3rd is performance. It's much more dense holds a tighter pattern and more effective killing power down range. Meaning I can take a load of #9 shot and have more penetration farther than your lead 6's or 7's. Also I can take a load of 2 or 4's load them Cheaper than your all well known "dead coyote walking" shells and make them look like child play.

This stuff isn't the cheapest to shoot but you won't find anything tom match it. And not many halfway wanna be hunters shoot it. Most that shoot 3.5's are high on their horse and gotta feel macho for shooting them when people like Myself have said why shoot them when there is better performing loads with less recoil while carrying a lighter gun.

And final. It's not 4-6 shots a year for some. When you shoot turkeys predators waterfowl game birds like dove grouse then crows that 3.5" gun gets put away to collect dust.
 
306a66d6b9c79c5a032d0ae212a81ba0.jpg

Here is a 12ga load of mine at 40 yards with 1 7/16oz of shot and the overall hull measures 2 7/8".

Here is a 2 3/4 20ga shot just yesterday with a 1 7/16oz payload of shot.
a390e4406d61ecabb41f97d5c2bc5fa6.jpg
 
birdsnspurs said:
Thank you sir
Click to expand...

I'm using a 20 gauge for turkey and never got I to that much detail or loading myself. I just went with off the shelf 3 in 20 g loads and found one that patterned very well to 40 yards which was really my goal. I tried an xfull choke and the pattern was worse Than my full with the same load! My full choke with the Winchester loads I've picked out do quite nicely.
 
whacko said:
I'm using a 20 gauge for turkey and never got I to that much detail or loading myself. I just went with off the shelf 3 in 20 g loads and found one that patterned very well to 40 yards which was really my goal. I tried an xfull choke and the pattern was worse Than my full with the same load! My full choke with the Winchester loads I've picked out do quite nicely.
Click to expand...

Yes more full isn't always better. You can over choke a load
 
birdsnspurs said:
You cannot take load data and just swap it around using the same technique. You have got to have loads made up then sent off and pressure tested. This stuff is a totally different animal. The people that sell the shot have loads worked up that you follow by. When u buy the shot they give you the load data specific to the gauge you use and you follow it to a T. It can be very dangerous to alter a worked up tested load.

Now reasons for shooting this vs your 3.5". First is weight of the gun. I can take my 28ga and anyone from my cousins 12yo son can use it to my wife on up to elder fellas. When you set up on a bird and you wait for a while to get him in to your set a gun gets heavy when your in a really position with the gun up the whole time. That's the primary purpose of cutting gun weight. It can work for all Ages.

2nd your 3.5" load won't touch a 20ga pattern and the smaller gauge pellet per shell will Out shoot your 3.5" on avg pellet counts. Therefore making my 12ga make your 3.5" shell look like a pansy and you a goof for shooting that big of unneeded shell. All In while my 12ga shell is not even a 3"!

3rd is performance. It's much more dense holds a tighter pattern and more effective killing power down range. Meaning I can take a load of #9 shot and have more penetration farther than your lead 6's or 7's. Also I can take a load of 2 or 4's load them Cheaper than your all well known "dead coyote walking" shells and make them look like child play.

This stuff isn't the cheapest to shoot but you won't find anything tom match it. And not many halfway wanna be hunters shoot it. Most that shoot 3.5's are high on their horse and gotta feel macho for shooting them when people like Myself have said why shoot them when there is better performing loads with less recoil while carrying a lighter gun.

And final. It's not 4-6 shots a year for some. When you shoot turkeys predators waterfowl game birds like dove grouse then crows that 3.5" gun gets put away to collect dust.
Click to expand...

Maybe we should have a friendly competition. I'll use stock 3.5 Longbeard XRs and you can use the custom ordered stuff you're using. Last time I patterned seriously I was getting 305-310 pellets in a 10" circle @ 40 yards and all I'm using is a cheap mossy 535 with a stock choke and 20$ box of 10 rounds of longbeards.

It doesnt really matter how well your #9 shot works if its illegal to hunt with, BTW. Maybe where you hunt those are legal.
 
Tiktock said:
Maybe we should have a friendly competition. I'll use stock 3.5 Longbeard XRs and you can use the custom ordered stuff you're using. Last time I patterned seriously I was getting 305-310 pellets in a 10" circle @ 40 yards and all I'm using is a cheap mossy 535 with a stock choke and 20$ box of 10 rounds of longbeards.

It doesnt really matter how well your #9 shot works if its illegal to hunt with, BTW. Maybe where you hunt those are legal.
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Nice pellet count that's what my 28ga shoots. 20ga shoots about 340 and 12 is upward about 365-380 pending temps that day and all are under 3"
 
birdsnspurs said:
I was thinking it was 7.5. But yet should still get 320-340
Click to expand...

TSS is 185/oz at #7...you think you are going to load and get 1.83oz of #7 shot into a 10" ring at 40 yards? How many ounces of TSS #7 are you going to fit into your 3" 20Ga load to get that kind of pellet count out at 40?
 
Tiktock said:
TSS is 185/oz at #7...you think you are going to load and get 1.83oz of #7 shot into a 10" ring at 40 yards? How many ounces of TSS #7 are you going to fit into your 3" 20Ga load to get that kind of pellet count out at 40?
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Lol oh lord I just realized I looked at my steel shot chart and not tss. Oh man my bad. Steel is 422 per oz.
 
birdsnspurs said:
Lol oh lord I just realized I looked at my steel shot chart and not tss. Oh man my bad. Steel is 422 per oz.
Click to expand...

I was literally thinking to myself "i'm gonna order me some of that!" and then I started doing the math and my head exploded :)

I 100% believe in the smaller shot clouds with the heavier-than-lead stuff. The best patterns I've ever shot were with 2+1/8oz of #7 Hevi-shot. I simply couldnt bear to spend $5+ per shotgun shell for those :)
 

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