Tumbling with SS Media

What jab? Remember - Nothing is mean if it's funny enough.

I was thinking of mounting two parallel shafts about 20" long, in a frame, horizontally in bearings. I want to find four rubber bushings (or 'tires') about 2" in diameter that I can press onto the shafts (2 on each shaft) that the bucket will turn on.

I want to find a similar 'tire' to put on the motor shaft, and mount it on a pivot so that the weight of the motor causes the bushing to ride on the bucket causing it to spin. I have a 400 RPM motor, so a 2" tire running a 10" diameter bucket will result in a 1:5 reduction, so 80RPM on the bucket. I do woodworking, so I'll make the frame from wood, and make an octagonal wooden 'tube' to fit inside the bucket for agitation (if someone has a better idea, pipe up).

I'll put a couple of round steel posts sticking up from the frame to limit the x-axis travel of the bucket while it spins.

It'll look like this:

tumbler.jpg


I figure that this design eliminates a complex series of pulleys and belts.

I'm having a hard time finding the 'tires' though.
 
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hahaha. its never mean if its funny enough. how true. guess that means it's okay when people tell me I'm an a**h*** as they're rolling in laughter (thought jasons was gonna fall off his chair the other night)


i'd skip the wood inserts.

Take a piece of 2" (or bigger, i have a chunk of 4" you can have for it) diameter PVC pipe, and cut it into quarters, the long way (doesn't need to be ultra precise).

there ya go. instant agitators. glue em and screw em (i'd use carriage bolts and bolt from the outside, use epoxy to glue/seal it in place).

tires? make em out of anything round. ever see what us sparky's use to make big splices? (with burndy's). get yourself a roll or two of 2" wide rubber splice tape. it's self vulcanizing (just stretch it a little bit). once you get the shaft / roller wrapped...it'll fuse to itself, and ought to be fairly durable.

if it wears through. add a layer of tape. cheap and done.


*edit


thinking about it....you *might* wanna rethink driving at least one of those shafts. a loaded 5 gallon bucket is gonna be HEAVY....and a small rubber wheel may not have the traction to get it spinning (or restart it spinning, if it happened to stop). what about a 1.5" diameter shaft (or even 1"), geared directly to the motor. if 2.5" gives you 80RPM, seems like 1-1.5" might give ya somewhere around 40ish RPMs.
 
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If you guys google for "homemade rock tumbler", you might get some good ideas. Like this (LOL):

[video=youtube_share;XNhLF2_J8pI]http://youtu.be/XNhLF2_J8pI[/video]
 
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How about Roller Blade wheels?

EddieCoyle said:
What jab? Remember - Nothing is mean if it's funny enough.

I was thinking of mounting two parallel shafts about 20" long, in a frame, horizontally in bearings. I want to find four rubber bushings (or 'tires') about 2" in diameter that I can press onto the shafts (2 on each shaft) that the bucket will turn on.

I want to find a similar 'tire' to put on the motor shaft, and mount it on a pivot so that the weight of the motor causes the bushing to ride on the bucket causing it to spin. I have a 400 RPM motor, so a 2" tire running a 10" diameter bucket will result in a 1:5 reduction, so 80RPM on the bucket. I do woodworking, so I'll make the frame from wood, and make an octagonal wooden 'tube' to fit inside the bucket for agitation (if someone has a better idea, pipe up).

I'll put a couple of round steel posts sticking up from the frame to limit the x-axis travel of the bucket while it spins.

It'll look like this:

tumbler.jpg


I figure that this design eliminates a complex series of pulleys and belts.

I'm having a hard time finding the 'tires' though.
Click to expand...


ETA: There really isn't anything complicated about the pullies. Every Ace Hardware store has them in a variety of sizes (both mandrel size and pulley diameter) so you can get your gearing down.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/...w=pulleys&origkw=Pulleys&searchId=59944852503

I'm going with 1 1/2 inch on the motor and start with a 4" pully on the rollers, and I'll experiment with 5/6/8 inch to tweak the agitation RPM depending on how I design my drum.
 
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The AFRCOM threads ballpark 60 - 90 RPM.

My design is following Bigdawgs pretty closely--but I'm going in a different direction with the drum.

I do want want the 5 gallon capacity, but I think the drum he built is overly complicated (and expensive).

EddieCoyle said:
Damn, can't argue with that.

What design are you going to use for your home-built tumbler? This thread has got me thinking about trying this out.

I was thinking about using a sealed 5-gal bucket lying on its side on a couple of rollers, one of which will be powered. What should be the RPM of the tumbler vessel itself?
Click to expand...
 
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PaulD said:
There's probably something in here that would work well, though they'd need something added so the contents actually tumble instead of just sitting on the bottom.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.aspx?catid=459&parentcatid=458
Click to expand...

Yeah, the 5 and 6 Gallon WINPAKS look pretty good.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23285&catid=459

The idea would be to Mod the thing for a wider mouth with a compression-style plumbing fixture--garbage-disposal ring, drain ring (etc).

ETA: I actually have 2 of the white on order.

(and man, Becky sounds like somebody I want to be in love with).
 
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Warm_Garand said:
Yeah, the 5 and 6 Gallon WINPAKS look pretty good.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23285&catid=459

The idea would be to Mod the thing for a wider mouth with a compression-style plumbing fixture--garbage-disposal ring, drain ring (etc).
Click to expand...

Here's a few more options. The 15 gallon ones could work quite well if you're going really big.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#plastic-storage-drums/=fuhi9i

Once again, some sort of bar would have to be added inside to induce the tumbling.
 
For agitation I'm thinking a simple strip of rubber weatherstripping--just a rubber speed bump at 1/6 intervals--but you'd need a really good, aggressive adhesive.

Anybody have any suggestions?
 
Warm_Garand said:
For agitation I'm thinking a simple strip of rubber weatherstripping--just a rubber speed bump at 1/6 intervals--but you'd need a really good, aggressive adhesive.

Anybody have any suggestions?
Click to expand...

One idea:

Get a piece of relatively heavy rubber, like from a door matt or car matt and cut a section out that's 6 to 8" by whatever the width of your drum is. I'd then fold it so it forms an upside down T. Then, attach the bottom to the barrel with a section of aluminum strip on the inside, screws through the barrel and fender washers on the outside. Seal it with silicone or some other gasketing compound.
 
PaulD said:
Here's a few more options. The 15 gallon ones could work quite well if you're going really big.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#plastic-storage-drums/=fuhi9i

Once again, some sort of bar would have to be added inside to induce the tumbling.
Click to expand...

I'd guess that anything larger than 5 or 6 gallons is makes routine administrative handling pretty difficult.

I went with the 5 gallon Winpak, figure on 10-15 lbs stainless media and a working solution of 3 gallons of water (there is really no need to fill it ALL the way up, I don't think).

My rollers are basic Monnick Hardware 1/2" Zinc Rods, covered with rubber hose from Autozone, spinning in pillow blocks (Kudos out to Bidgawg @ AR15.com).

Two drums ought to fit, and I'm hoping my 1/2 HP motor will get the job done.

If anybody knows of an elegant solution for creating a portal for gaining access to the drum's interior (I'm thinking 4" opening, to get a hand INSIDE the drum, but that can also be securely sealed shut) I'd love to hear it. I'm thinking a compression fitted drain flange, like for a wide commercial drain, or a roofing drain (like a shower drain, but for flat roofs) installed on the flat end, with a threaded plug on it. That would let me get an arm deep inside the drum and really secure some agitation paddles with adhesive, a glue gun, epoxy etc.

Also: if anybody is leaning toward doing a home build and wants a list of the cheapest place to get various parts, I'd be happy tell you what I've found cheap, and where.
 
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Warm_Garand said:
I'd guess that anything larger than 5 or 6 gallons is makes routine administrative handling pretty difficult.

I went with the 5 gallon Winpak, figure on 10-15 lbs stainless media and a working solution of 3 gallons of water (there is really no need to fill it ALL the way up, I don't think).

My rollers are basic Monnick Hardware 1/2" Zinc Rods, covered with rubber hose from Autozone, spinning in pillow blocks (Kudos out to Bidgawg @ AR15.com).

Two drums ought to fit, and I'm hoping my 1/2 HP motor will get the job done.

If anybody knows of an elegant solution for creating a portal for gaining access to the drum's interior (I'm thinking 4" opening, to get a hand INSIDE the drum, but that can also be securely sealed shut) I'd love to hear it. I'm thinking a compression fitted drain flange, like for a wide commercial drain, or a roofing drain (like a shower drain, but for flat roofs) installed on the flat end, with a threaded plug on it. That would let me get an arm deep inside the drum and really secure some agitation paddles with adhesive, a glue gun, epoxy etc.

Also: if anybody is leaning toward doing a home build and wants a list of the cheapest place to get various parts, I'd be happy tell you what I've found cheap, and where.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see pics.
 
I'd say BigDawg @ AR15.com is the king of the homebuilt.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_114/907679_Large_capacity_wet___stainless_tumbler.html

I like the frame.

Anybody want to weld one up for me? I'll roll in with pre-cut tubing.

Lemme know.



ETA: I wrote to Biggdawg for an idea about drying brass.

Right now the process is passive, waiting for it to air dry, even under a fan (or putting it in your oven, i guess, but that idea doesn't resonate for me).

I suggested putting the brass inside of a 5 gallon wet-dry shop vac.

Turn it on, let it run for five minutes, give the brass a 1//4 turn, etc.

Might work.




ETA2:

PaudD--

I've been giving your idea of rubber mats for agitators some thought, and it is a strong idea. Paint the entire inside of the drum with an adhesive, lay in roofing-rubber, and make small folds in the material. Adhesion ought to be 100%, and it will help it to run quieter too.
 
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Warm_Garand said:
I'd say BigDawg @ AR15.com is the king of the homebuilt.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_114/907679_Large_capacity_wet___stainless_tumbler.html

I like the frame.

Anybody want to weld one up for me? I'll roll in with pre-cut tubing.

Lemme know.



ETA: I wrote to Biggdawg for an idea about drying brass.

Right now the process is passive, waiting for it to air dry, even under a fan (or putting it in your oven, i guess, but that idea doesn't resonate for me).

I suggested putting the brass inside of a 5 gallon wet-dry shop vac.

Turn it on, let it run for five minutes, give the brass a 1//4 turn, etc.

Might work.




ETA2:

PaudD--

I've been giving your idea of rubber mats for agitators some thought, and it is a strong idea. Paint the entire inside of the drum with an adhesive, lay in roofing-rubber, and make small folds in the material. Adhesion ought to be 100%, and it will help it to run quieter too.
Click to expand...

Looking at BigDawg's post on AR15, I think I'd probably go with the way he did it (quartered sections of PVC). That said, the way he attached them is kind of what I had in mind for the rubber.

Also, BigDawg's frame is very nice. However, I think a good substitute would be a piece of 3/4" birch plywood coated with a few coats of poly. The stuff is very strong and flat. That said, for the price BigDawg lists, I'd consider just buying one from him. It's really a very good deal considering what the factory built tumblers cost.
 
Boris said:
I sent you a PM, steel frame is cheaper and sturdier than wood, looks better too.
Click to expand...

A piece of 2'x4'x3/4" birch plywood would be about $15 and is easily cut into the necessary shape. Clearly a steel frame could be stronger but I'm not seeing where that much strength is needed.
 
PaulD said:
A piece of 2'x4'x3/4" birch plywood would be about $15 and is easily cut into the necessary shape. Clearly a steel frame could be stronger but I'm not seeing where that much strength is needed.
Click to expand...

depending on construction steel may be even lighter, consider vibration, mounts joints that will be overstressed, also any moisture or wetness destroys plywood.

you can frequently get a bed frame free which is great scrap steel angle for projects like these. If something doesn't work out, you can cut it up and reweld. I know that not everyone has access to a welder, but if you want to build it solid, steel is a great way to go. Everyone should get a welder and learn how to use it.
 
Here's my review of tumbling with stainless media:

I bought a Thumler kit from http://www.buffaloarms.com/ about 3 days before I saw this thread. Had I seen this thread and, in particular the link off to AR15.com, I might have not placed the order. However, after one batch complete, I can't complain much about what I bought.

The brass definitely comes out as shiny as everyone says. It's very clean. I ran the first batch for 3hrs and I probably overloaded the tumbler a fair bit. The results were pretty much equivalent to factory brass. Others have said they get it cleaner than factory brass and I'm sure that's possible if I ran it for longer or put less brass in.

There are some minor downsides to the process, but I'm sure they can be gotten around with the right tools or techniques:

1. You'll probably want some sort of fine mesh strainer, mostly to catch the media. I went to Home Goods (yes, I realize this jeopardizes my man card) and found a domed spatter shield (those are for frying bacon to add a man card point). The mesh on some strainers isn't fine enough to catch the pins. The spatter shield I got isn't ideal because it has a frame going across the middle and a friend said he'd get me a replacement at a supply place in Chinatown.

2. The rotating brass separator thing showed in some of the videos would definitely be useful. I don't have one so I had to pick the brass out of the strainer mentioned above. It wasn't a big deal but a bit time consuming.

3. I didn't deprime the brass before tumbling. I did this on purpose because I'd rather sort clean brass. The downside is that getting the water out of bottle necked rifle cases is a bit of a PITA. I had to hold each one upside down and shake it because, surprise surprise, they act like a bottle. Depriming would have lessened this I'm sure.

4. There will be a very small rate of media loss overtime, guaranteed. Some will fall on the floor or go down the drain. The rate will probably be .0x% or so, but it's there.

5. I have a 5 gallon bucket of brass and it's all various calibers mixed in. So, I just grabbed a bunch and through it in the tumbler. The only downside I had doing this was that 9mm cases got stuck in the .45 cases because the stainless pins wedged them in. With a few, I had to use some needle nose pliers to pull them apart. Not a big deal.

6. I have a 16"x18"x3" stainless tray and this is a very useful item as a place to put the finished brass for drying. It was suggested that I use an electric heat gun to dry the brass. Anyone see any problems with that idea? Oh, you definitely want a bucket as well as an interim spot to hold the brass while rinsing.

Anyway, I initially liked the idea of this process because it's wet and therefore will hold down any lead dust (I have a kid in the house) and it may be more effort than tumbling with dry media, but I think it's worth it. Also, the Thumler model B is a good size though I can see wanting a bigger unit. The one on AR15.com also seems more robust though the Thumler is probably good enough.
 
One other note on the process, a magnetic pickup tool is very useful for getting the stray media that inevitably ends up on the bench, floor, pan, etc.

This leads to another point though. The media is magnetic and usually the more magnetic a stainless alloy is, the more likely it is to rust. So time will tell what the media does.
 
You should sort the brass before tumbling; much easier in the long run. I tumble with corn cob grit and metal polish. I find the results great as long as I change the media every ten runs or so (Lyman vibratory tumbler) and add a little brass polish prior to each run. Again, much easier in the long run.
 
I'm almost out of brass to clean (lol).

Anybody interested trading a Giraud trimmer for a monster stainless tumbling unit for week or two?

I need to trim 5.56 and 30.06 to length for an RCBS X-Die.

Let me know.

ETA: Here is a video of the tumbler in action...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpxFDMcYiXA
 
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I've been looking into SS tumbling for a while. I've seen some of the posts on Enos and NES and I was close to picking up one of the Thumblers. That was until I went and weighed what 2 or 3 lbs of brass looked like. I shoot IDPA, USPSA, ICORE, Steel Challenge, WoS etc so needed something that could handle a larger volume. I thought about building my own but I don't have the time and tools to put something together. I was looking for something like the one that bigdawg put together. I recall that he had built an extra one and sold it. Then I found out that he had setup a website and was building them to order. I contacted him and discussed which size drum was the best for my situation. He had a frame and some drums already in stock. I sent a money order and one week later it was on my door steps. He was a pleasure to deal with, answered all my questions and kept me informed every step of the way.

I picked up the SS media from Kevin at Pellets LLC. They have started selling their media to resellers like Brownells so they have increased their minimum order to 25 lbs ($6/lb + $16 S/H).

So far I've run 3 batches of 9mm (~1500 cases/batch). The drum can hold more but I'm limited on the capacity of my separator at the moment.

For the record:

No affiliation with bigdawg, just a satisfied customer.

Yes, I know brass doesn't have to be this clean to reload.

Decapping prior to tumbling is kind of a pain. It's made a lot easier by running the cases through my progressive press (with casefeeder) and using a lee decapping die.

Drying is an extra step, but isn't that bad. I placed a towel on a table, spread the brass out, and placed a fan nearby. The next morning they everything was dry and ready to go.

Some pictures:

Bigdawg Tumbler with the large drum:
DSC_4985.jpg


My High-Tech drying setup:
DSC_4966.jpg


Some clean 9mm brass just prior to drying:
DSC_4987.jpg


DSC_4972.jpg


DSC_4979.jpg
 

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