Traveling

[Karl]

The wife and I have discussed going on vacation.... something we haven't done for a few years. Recently, I've made it a point to carry whenever and wherever I'm legally allowed. I've checked a few CCW law sites and I know that my NH CCW permit is good in multiple states and I understand that FOPA protects me to cross state lines with my CCW pistol providing it's secured properly in states that my permit doesn't apply to. What happens if we stop in an unfriendly state, at a motel for the night? Am I not allowed to keep my pistol with me? If an unfriendly state allows open carry but doesn't allow my NH permit, I'm not allowed to OC in that state, right?

 

[RichM]

If I were traveling through states where I needed to rely on FOPA to allow possession of firearms, I would not stay in that state overnight. I'd either change my route to spend less time in that state, or I'd drive straight through.

Remember to check the laws of those states; you may not need to rely on FOPA for possession, even though your NH permit would not allow for carry.

Once you're beyond NY, NJ, or MD, life gets MUCH better for possession!

Don't forget to check the laws for the states you'll be transiting about their laws for guns in the glove-box, restaurants that serve alcohol, effect of no-gun signage, and whether you need to inform a LEO about carry or possession.

Check the NRA-ILA site and USA Carry for more information.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

What happens if we stop in an unfriendly state, at a motel for the night? [

It depends on who notices

Am I not allowed to keep my pistol with me?

No, FOPA86 specifies a "continuous and uninterrupted journey", and it is generally accepted that an overnight stay is not part of such a journey.

If an unfriendly state allows open carry but doesn't allow my NH permit, I'm not allowed to OC in that state, right?

It depends on the laws of the "open carry" state. Many open carry states are "open carry with no permit required".

 

[Harleynut]

I am reading this with interest. Going to drive from NH to Fla in a couple of weeks and not sure if its worth it to take something with me or not. I know there will be times on the trip I won't want a gun and even though I had a friend weld ammo can up so I can lock and cable it inside the car still not sure I want to do that. No trunk in what I drive.
I have heard others say to avoid NY, NJ and dc and some other places it may complicate the drive.

 

[GraftonNH]

I can't argue with anything that's been said so far. I would be certain to check state laws for the locations you plan on staying, and as recommended drive on through the unfriendly states. NH for example, allows you to carry in your home, and I seem to recall - anywhere you plan to stay for the night, such as a tent or hotel room. I can't for the life of me find that specific statute right now. Perhaps other states have similar laws - protecting overnight visitors.

 

[Dirtypacman]

I too have interest in doing some extended traveling and would love to know I am protected through the trip. I am still in the planning stages so I don't know exactly what states will be on the list but I appreciate the input I have already seen here.

 

[Kevin_NH]

Another option to consider would be to have an unloaded, unlocked, unthreatening shotgun in the trunk. States with crazy handgun and AR restrictions often will be okay with "Fudd Guns"

 

[Kevlar]

If you have enough time before you leave, I would suggest a FL non-resident CWFL (concealed weapons or firearm license). It would allow you to carry a concealed firearm in DE, VA, NC & GA as well as FL, and SC allows loaded firearms in the glove compartment. The remaining states (NY, NJ, MD) can be transited under the provisions of FOPA.

 

[GSG]

No, FOPA86 specifies a "continuous and uninterrupted journey", and it is generally accepted that an overnight stay is not part of such a journey.

I read an ATF opinion letter uploaded to some gun website a couple years back where ATF said that FOPA would cover you for reasonable stops on such a trip, including overnight hotel stays, as long as the gun(s) stayed FOPA compliant, even in the hotel room. It was obvious from reading the letter I found that the guy was looking to get them to say "Sure, you can keep a handgun in your hotel room nightstand while stopped in NY with FOPA!" They didn't say that, not nearly, but their opinion expanded things a little.

I still think it's borderline suicidal to spend any time you don't have to relying on FOPA coverage. I'll see if I can pull that letter up anyway.

 

[GSG]

I'm not having luck finding the letter, but FWIW, NJ doesn't think FOPA applies when you stop in a hotel room.

http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/092029p.pdf

 

[Karl]

I'm not having luck finding the letter, but FWIW, NJ doesn't think FOPA applies when you stop in a hotel room.

http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/092029p.pdf

That's not surprising. I'm sure this question must be a common one. How many road trips do people take that don't involve a stay over somewhere along the way.... If anything, it could be argued that in the interest of public safety they wouldn't what people driving while half asleep because they didn't want to stop and rest for the night.

 

[GSG]

Even just families with kids who can't be cooped up for 24 hours at a time, people with back problems, or who want to sightsee along the trip. It makes sense logically, but I just don't think it's worth the trouble. Read the above complaint, that guy must have had quite the experience when he was booked.

 

[Number2]

Not sure if it helps now, but look into a Utah LTC. Utah has reciprocity agreements with like 30 other states, so you are legal in all of those. Plus those states NH has reciprocity (there are a few overlaps). This will severely reduce those "jumps" in states which you aren't licensed.

Another route is one which allows CCW in any state, you just have to be an "officer of the peace" or "peace officer" (forget how the reciprocity agreement is written exactly) and have proof with you you are one.

 

[Karl]

Not sure if it helps now, but look into a Utah LTC. Utah has reciprocity agreements with like 30 other states, so you are legal in all of those. Plus those states NH has reciprocity (there are a few overlaps). This will severely reduce those "jumps" in states which you aren't licensed.

Another route is one which allows CCW in any state, you just have to be an "officer of the peace" or "peace officer" (forget how the reciprocity agreement is written exactly) and have proof with you you are one.

I've heard Florida is really good too.

 

[Jose]

Outside NY/NJ/MA/CT you need no license or FOPA exemption to carry firearms unloaded and away from direct access. Such transport is legal by default without any license or permit. When I say away from direct access I mean just that. A soft case away from the psg compt complies, you usually do not need a locked box welded to the trunk or some of the other BS that I see mentioned here routinely.

Just read the laws of the state you are traveling through on handgunlaw.us. Some states have funny defs of what unloaded is so keep that in mind.

It really is not all that difficult to transport guns across state lines in the majority of the country.

 

[Beansie_Time]

I have a question along these same lines.
I'll be traveling in a vehicle without a trunk soon with long guns. Are trigger locked guns or guns with locks through the action considered compliant in a soft case? or must the long guns be in a locked container? I have enough space in my locking cases for all but one gun I'd like to bring, and if the trigger lock is ok I'd love to bring it along too.
I should also mention these guns all fit in the "fudd gun" category.

 

[GraftonNH]

...snip...
I'll be traveling in a vehicle without a trunk soon with long guns. Are trigger locked guns or guns with locks through the action considered compliant in a soft case? or must the long guns be in a locked container?
...snip...

§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

It sounds to me like if you have a trunk, it needs to be in a trunk. If you don't have a trunk it can be in a locked container. I don't really see a "I have a locked container, but it's full" provision. I also don't see the need for a locked hard shell case, maybe a travel lock through the zipper holes in a soft case is enough?

Just an opinion, I'm not a lawyer.

 

[drgrant]

Also bear in mind that FOPA really is only relevant and needed in like 6-8 states. The other states all have gun laws which likely have standards which most would consider to be less than what FOPA requires. It's good to have a working knowledge of at least the basic elements of gun law in the states you are traveling through... no need to over-restrict yourself in a lot of cases.

-Mike

 

[Jose]

Also bear in mind that FOPA really is only relevant and needed in like 6-8 states. The other states all have gun laws which likely have standards which most would consider to be less than what FOPA requires. It's good to have a working knowledge of at least the basic elements of gun law in the states you are traveling through... no need to over-restrict yourself in a lot of cases.

-Mike

No matter how many times this is said by you, me, and a few others, there will be a constant barrage of questions about whether all guns need to be in the trunk, inside a lock case, and wearing a trigger lock.

In most states you can actually throw a rifle in the back seat of the car and leave it there in plain sight legally so long as it meets that particular state's definition of unloaded.

I bet that blows a few mental fuses around here......

 

[Jose]

It sounds to me like if you have a trunk, it needs to be in a trunk. If you don't have a trunk it can be in a locked container. I don't really see a "I have a locked container, but it's full" provision. I also don't see the need for a locked hard shell case, maybe a travel lock through the zipper holes in a soft case is enough?

Just an opinion, I'm not a lawyer.

Most of that crap is irrelevant if you are traveling in or through a state with no gun owner licensing and reasonable transport laws.

Ohio:

(C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless the person may lawfully possess that firearm under applicable law of this state or the United States, the firearm is unloaded, and the firearm is carried in one of the following ways:

(1) In a closed package, box, or case;

(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;

(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose;

Notice the complete absence of the words "LOCK" or "LOCKED".

 

[GraftonNH]

Most of that crap is irrelevant if you are traveling in or through a state with no gun owner licensing and reasonable transport laws.

Ohio:

Agreed, but this is not OHShooters. Sadly, the person who asked the question is in NH, and to get practically anywhere out of the north east, you need to drive through states that have draconian firearm laws (MA and NY come to mind). (I guess you could take a boat or try your luck going through Canada.) There are numerous other threads, specific state gun law forums, but the FOPA that I quoted is the lowest common denominator of laws that should allow you to travel across the United States unmolested.

You may only need it in 6-8 states (per drgrant) but I'm sure if you screw up in one of those states and *poof* there go your 2A rights for good because they'll likely throw a felony at you.

 

[Jose]

I understand and agree with you.

But it seems that mostly the MA guys get all panicky about not having guns triple locked even after they leave the states where FOPA matters.

I remember distinctly a post from someone from MA driving to NC and asking these questions about travel within NC too.

How hard is it to educate oneself about the laws of every state where one will travel through or stay in?

 

[Racenet]

I understand and agree with you.

But it seems that mostly the MA guys get all panicky about not having guns triple locked even after they leave the states where FOPA matters.

I remember distinctly a post from someone from MA driving to NC and asking these questions about travel within NC too.

How hard is it to educate oneself about the laws of every state where one will travel through or stay in?

LOL

Did he have an LTC-A? That makes a big difference.

LOL

 

[Jose]

I have a Mass LTC-A and I'm traveling to..........

LOL

 

[ScottS]

Most of that crap is irrelevant if you are traveling in or through a state with no gun owner licensing and reasonable transport laws.

Ohio:

(C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless the person may lawfully possess that firearm under applicable law of this state or the United States, the firearm is unloaded, and the firearm is carried in one of the following ways:

(1) In a closed package, box, or case;

(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;

(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose;

Notice the complete absence of the words "LOCK" or "LOCKED".

Or "evil."