Transporting guns in a vehicle without a trunk

[Pete85]

So I just got a new car and I'm just trying to make sure that I'm not running afoul of MA's transportation laws now since it's a crossover and doesn't have a trunk that's separate from the passenger area of the vehicle. Just trying to make sure I've got this right:

-Handguns can either carried under my direct control or need to be in a locked case.
-Large capacity rifles and shotguns need to be unloaded and in a locked case.
-Non-large capacity rifles and shotguns just need to be unloaded with no requirement for locking them up (though it's not a bad idea to put them in a locked case).

That brings up another question. When it comes to rifles and shotguns, what determines large capacity? Is my Mosberg 500 large capacity because it's fixed tube can accept 6 shells? Is my Ruger 15/22 large capacity because it can accept larger than 10 round magazines, even though I only have 10 rounders for it?

Any insight is appreciated.

 

[Drix]

When it comes to rifles and shotguns, what determines large capacity

I think large capacity is a magazine of more than 10 rounds, or capable of accepting a magazine more than 10 rounds. One of the two- this is defined my mgl.

Magazines don't have to be removable either, we always think of like an ar/ak mag, but you could have a m1903 navy or something and be high capacity. There's no rule currently on a shottie with 1" shells to my knowledge.

 

[last ranger]

A firearm must be semi-auto to be considered large capacity. A Ruger 10/22 is not considered a large capacity since it is manufactured as a 10 round firearm, however if you put in a magazine of more then ten rounds then it automatically becomes large capacity. It can be confusing, but that is the way Mass law is written. Large capacity is considered more then ten rounds in the magazine/feeding device, does not include the one in the chamber. If the firearm is designed for less then 10 rounds, i.e. 1911 45 acp then it is not considered a large capacity unless again you put in a larger magazine.

 

[DPR]

The law determines what is large capacity. And regarding handguns they would need to also be unloaded if in a locked case-your example didn’t specify. As far as all the other examples go just dumb it down and transport each unloaded in a locked container. It’s easier to do than trying to make sense of MA law. And yes my nylon bag with a $2 luggage padlock keeping it from being opened is a locked container.

 

[Matt_SERE]

Be careful with transporting and then stopping for lunch with the guys after the range. 'Storage' could very quickly become a concern.

Matt

 

[wilson911]

Why not just let them know it's there so they dont get spooked?

 

[Picton]

I’ve got a hatchback. Everything except what’s in my holster gets unloaded and locked into a case. Ammo too, separate case.

 

[92G]

find me a modern production vehicle where the trunk is physically separated from the rest of vehicle. all of them are accessible. laws are intentionally ambiguous, designed so we are guilty no matter what. we all have our practices that we deem appropriate but they're all opinion.

 

[Pete85]

find me a modern production vehicle where the trunk is physically separated from the rest of vehicle. all of them are accessible. laws are intentionally ambiguous, designed so we are guilty no matter what. we all have our practices that we deem appropriate but they're all opinion.

In the Civic I just traded in, while the rear seats did fold down allowing access to the trunk, it could only be done from within the trunk. There wasn't any way to do it from the passenger compartment without tools or breaking something. I'd imagine a lot of sedans are like this, otherwise the valet locks that many cars have to secure the trunk are worthless.

 

[92G]

In the Civic I just traded in, while the rear seats did fold down allowing access to the trunk, it could only be done from within the trunk. There wasn't any way to do it from the passenger compartment without tools or breaking something. I'd imagine a lot of sedans are like this, otherwise the valet locks that many cars have to secure the trunk are worthless.

^thinking too hard

 

[LLF]

Just dumb it down and transport each unloaded in a locked container. It’s easier to do than trying to make sense of MA law.

Truer words have rarely been spoken.
Don't try to outwit some police officer with an anti-gun agenda. Lock everything up and if you have anything that looks like a gun case visible from the outside throw an old blanket over it.

 

[richc]

Sometimes I feel very lucky that the gun club entrance is less than 1/4 mile from my house. I rarely travel any further with firearms stored in the vehicle.

 

[Uzi2]

Sometimes I feel very lucky that the gun club entrance is less than 1/4 mile from my house. I rarely travel any further with firearms stored in the vehicle.

I step ten steps out my front or back door to my range and always have a pistol on me and a rifle and six mags in the back seat or trunk....but this is Kentucky.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

IANAL, but does it have to be in a trunk for large capacity rifles? I see the word "or" in the sentence. My interpretation is that you have to have it unloaded and in one of three solutions--locked case, locked truck, or secure container.

"Large-Capacity Rifles and Shotguns: All persons transporting large capacity rifles or shotguns under an LTC must transport them unloaded and in a locked case, locked trunk, or other secure container. Trigger locks do not meet the requirements of securing a large-capacity firearm during transport in a motor vehicle. Large-capacity firearms left unattended in a vehicle must be unloaded and in a locked case, locked trunk, or other secure container."

 

[meh]

Yeah, I lock every gun up, either in its own locked case or in a case I leave in my hatchback area, even when it's not required. It's because when I'm driving places, sometimes I might want to go into a store or something. Although the rifles are properly unloaded for transport, I don't lock up the ammo.

 

[Redbeard22]

Gun ownership in Massachusetts

As ReluctantDecoy pointed out wording says "Locked case, locked trunk, OR other secure container." I'd rather be safe than sorry and add an extra measure whenever possible. It IS Massachusetts after all, and all laws are subject to "reinterpretation," as we all know.

The article goes one at the bottom to also say:

"The laws for transporting a firearm can be confusing. Basically, if you keep the firearm unloaded, and locked in a case in the trunk or rear storage compartment of a truck or SUV you will comply with the current law."

The clarification right on the Mass website seems to contradict the wording (because Mass) and suggest you should do both, but that a rear storage compartment of an SUV is good to go. Keep the doors locked. It's now a "locked" trunk.

 

[fshalor]

Had this conversation once. Cop who was picking up an AR for his wife. (I didn't comment about straw... ) When I bought my 870 and a group buy lower made a funny comment.

"I'd count a taped up box as an other secure container since most people don't have knives anymore. "

Dont do this of course. But it technically is maybe secure. And it's a container. And it's an "other".

I did ask if a garbage bag would count. He just laughed.

 

[M1911]

It is not that hard. If you put unloaded firearms in a locked case then you are in accordance with the law.

Rather than trying to make sure you know the difference between large capacity long gun vs non-large so that you can transport non-large not locked up, instead just lock them all up.

Also, if possible, keep them out of sight. If a cop doesn’t see them during a traffic stop, it is one less chance of things going sideways.

 

[drgrant]

find me a modern production vehicle where the trunk is physically separated from the rest of vehicle. all of them are accessible. laws are intentionally ambiguous, designed so we are guilty no matter what. we all have our practices that we deem appropriate but they're all opinion.

On both of my cars unless the pass through is unlocked- and even then- which maybe only a toddler could squeeze through, you ain't getting in the trunk from inside the
car. Also lots of cars allow you to lock the seats so there's no trunk access at all.

-Mike

 

[CrackPot]

So I just got a new car and I'm just trying to make sure that I'm not running afoul of MA's transportation laws now since it's a crossover and doesn't have a trunk that's separate from the passenger area of the vehicle. Just trying to make sure I've got this right:

-Handguns can either carried under my direct control or need to be in a locked case.
-Large capacity rifles and shotguns need to be unloaded and in a locked case.
-Non-large capacity rifles and shotguns just need to be unloaded with no requirement for locking them up (though it's not a bad idea to put them in a locked case).

That brings up another question. When it comes to rifles and shotguns, what determines large capacity? Is my Mosberg 500 large capacity because it's fixed tube can accept 6 shells? Is my Ruger 15/22 large capacity because it can accept larger than 10 round magazines, even though I only have 10 rounders for it?

Any insight is appreciated.

Law vs prudence

Correction on law. MGL 140 131C

The law parses out as firearm (handgun) loaded under direct control otherwise unloaded. NO statement about being locked up
Large capacity rifle/shotgun locked up (container, trunk)
non-large capacity rifle/shotgun no requirement under 131C. As someone pointed out in another thread, hunting regulations require that it is unloaded, but it is not a transport violation

That is law. Prudence is different

handgun, loaded under control, otherwise unloaded and locked up
rifle/shotgun regardless of capacity, locked up and unloaded

Always out of sight.

And as already pointed out, transport turns into storage when you stop so MGL 140 131L. Even it is lawful to leave your 5rd pump shotgun sitting on the backseat for transport, it is not legal for storage. So just lock everything up that you are not carrying concealed.

You are likely to get arrested for stacking FUDD shotguns like cord wood in your back seat and driving down the road even if it is legal

 

[Racenet]

 

[richc]

A bit of a segway, but are there restrictions on what guests can shoot. Assume no one is a PP. And I don't own any full auto.

Can guests of any reasonable age shoot guns I own at the range in MA?

 

[robjax]

just got a pick up so everything will have to go in the back seat. I always transport in locked cases.

 

[radioman]

I always break down my AR’s. That way the uppers are just
objects and only the lower 1/2 is the firearm. That way I only have to
lock up the lowers and the uppers I can wrap in a towel. I only have 1
lockable rifle case and just having to put the lowers in there I can also
bring other semi’s in the same case. Saves a lot on space.

 

[M1911]

A bit of a segway, but are there restrictions on what guests can shoot. Assume no one is a PP. And I don't own any full auto.

Can guests of any reasonable age shoot guns I own at the range in MA?

I believe that the answer to that is yes. I think that the relevant sections are MGL Chapter 140 Section 130:

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section130

Section 130: Sale or furnishing weapons or ammunition to aliens or minors; penalty

Section 130. Whoever sells or furnishes a rifle, shotgun or ammunition to any alien 18 years of age or older who does not hold a permit card issued to that alien pursuant to section 131H or, except as provided in this section or section 131E, whoever sells or furnishes any alien or any person under 18 years of age a rifle, shotgun, machine gun or ammunition, or whoever sells or furnishes to any person under 21 years of age a firearm or large capacity rifle or shotgun or ammunition therefor shall have the license to sell firearms, rifles, shotguns, machine guns or ammunition revoked and shall not be entitled to apply for such license for 10 years from the date of such revocation and shall be punished by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000, or by imprisonment in a state prison for not more than 10 years or by imprisonment in a house of correction for not more than 2 1/2 years or by both such fine and imprisonment.

and MGL Chapter 140 Section 130 1/2:

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section130 1~2

Section 130 1/2: Lawfully furnishing weapons to minors for hunting, recreation, instruction and participation in shooting sports


Section 130 1/2. Notwithstanding section 130 or any general or special law to the contrary, it shall be lawful to furnish a weapon to a minor for hunting, recreation, instruction and participation in shooting sports while under the supervision of a holder of a valid firearm identification card or license to carry appropriate for the weapon in use; provided, however, that the parent or guardian of the minor granted consent for such activities.

 

[M1911]

I always break down my AR’s. That way the uppers are just
objects and only the lower 1/2 is the firearm. That way I only have to
lock up the lowers and the uppers I can wrap in a towel. I only have 1
lockable rifle case and just having to put the lowers in there I can also
bring other semi’s in the same case. Saves a lot on space.

Personally, I would lock up both. I would not count on a police officer understanding which part is the firearm and which is not. Also, while the AR lower is the firearm per ATF, that is not true of an FN FAL. For an FAL, the upper is the firearm.

 

[allen-1]

find me a modern production vehicle where the trunk is physically separated from the rest of vehicle. all of them are accessible. laws are intentionally ambiguous, designed so we are guilty no matter what. we all have our practices that we deem appropriate but they're all opinion.

Ford F150 with a locked tonneau cover. Or Jobox.

Yeah, I know. It's not really a "trunk". But it is physically separated from the rest of the vehicle.

 

[whacko]

So I just got a new car and I'm just trying to make sure that I'm not running afoul of MA's transportation laws now since it's a crossover and doesn't have a trunk that's separate from the passenger area of the vehicle. Just trying to make sure I've got this right:

-Handguns can either carried under my direct control or need to be in a locked case.
-Large capacity rifles and shotguns need to be unloaded and in a locked case.
-Non-large capacity rifles and shotguns just need to be unloaded with no requirement for locking them up (though it's not a bad idea to put them in a locked case).

That brings up another question. When it comes to rifles and shotguns, what determines large capacity? Is my Mosberg 500 large capacity because it's fixed tube can accept 6 shells? Is my Ruger 15/22 large capacity because it can accept larger than 10 round magazines, even though I only have 10 rounders for it?

Any insight is appreciated.

First criteria for determining if it's high cap is if it is semi auto or not. Your Mossberg 500 is not semi auto so is not high cap.

 

[CrackPot]

A firearm must be semi-auto to be considered large capacity.

First criteria for determining if it's high cap is if it is semi auto or not.

So don't just take people's word and understand WHY and the reference to MGL

MGL 140 121. Definition of Large Capacity Weapon

'Large capacity weapon'', any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device; (ii) that is semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device; (iii) that employs a rotating cylinder capable of accepting more than ten rounds of ammunition in a rifle or firearm and more than five shotgun shells in the case of a shotgun or firearm; or (iv) that is an assault weapon. The term ''large capacity weapon'' shall be a secondary designation and shall apply to a weapon in addition to its primary designation as a firearm, rifle or shotgun and shall not include: (i) any weapon that was manufactured in or prior to the year 1899; (ii) any weapon that operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that is a single-shot weapon; (iv) any weapon that has been modified so as to render it permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a large capacity weapon; or (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable large capacity weapon.

The bolded part is mine.

This is of course interesting because immediately above this they have the definition of Large capacity feeding device. Your mossberg 500 that has a 6 round tube on it has a large capacity feeding device, but the shotgun itself is not a large capacity weapon. Wrap your head around that contradiction...

 

[arsco]

I have a newer jeep 2 door. Has a little storage area near the tail gate just a flap to "hidden" storage. I keep a pistol lock box on a cable. Not sure if I'm right or wrong but I drop the mag, the round from the chamber and lock the whole mess in the box. I've only had to do it a few times and it sucks to do it

This is for times I need to go into a place I can't bring it with .e