• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

To Lube or Not to Lube (BPCR)

Broc

Broc

NES Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
57,532
Likes
117,982
Feedback: 16 / 0 / 0
I will be heading to the range in a few to test some BP loads ... but I was thinking ...

The point of lubing the GG bullet is to soften the BP. But I swipe after every shot. So is that really needed?

My goal is to eliminate pan lubing, it is a major pain in the a**.

For those that shoot BPCR, what are your thoughts?


Ps: I know, I should try paper patching.
 
You are correct , BP specific lubes do soften the crud for easier bore swabbing. It also minimizes lead buildup on the rifling. Ive always hot dip lubed the grooves on my cast 45-70 greaser bullets. When i shoot my . 58 cal bp Enfield muzzleloader i just swab a bit of a 50/50 mix of Bore Butter and Crisco on the bullet right before i drop it down the bore. Ive never tried shooting 45-70 cast bullets "dry" i would be a little concerned about barrel leading.
 
I picked up a spare lubrisizer with .458 and .470 dies, and cast my own beeswax/crisco lube sticks. I size all my trapdoor and martini bullets this way. For Snider, I just wipe the lube into the grooves as they are very shallow, or I use a grease cookie for roundballs in that. I previously paper patched .458 up to .470 for the Martini which made for awesome very traditional-looking cartridges but it was a pain.
 
I answered my question... TO LUBE is the way.

Shot 20 without lube, shot like sh*t.
Shot 10 lubed (same primer, charge ...), shot great.

And this happened to 2 cases. A full case went in, 3/4 came out. The rifle shot the piece out.

I am wondering why this happened.. this brass has been reloaded around 10 times. I annealed last week (no longer than 3 seconds).

Never happened to me before.

20220701_123147.jpg
 
How long before you cleaned the cases after firing?
BP residue is corrosive to steel not certain if it eats your brass too.

And were those unlubed?
 
pastera said:
How long before you cleaned the cases after firing?
BP residue is corrosive to steel not certain if it eats your brass too.

And were those unlubed?
Click to expand...
1. Not lubed.
2. Usually a day ... or a week. I don't remember. But I will change to right away.

I found this online:

.45-70 case separation

I was shooting my sharps the other day when the top 1/3 of a starline .45-70 case separated from the backhalf. Load was 535 lyman postell bullet 60 grains of 1 1/2 f old eynsford powder with a walters wad .03 has anybody had this happen before? 225952
castboolits.gunloads.com

Aparently it is common.

And I usually have a wet chamber, when I wipe, I use a wet patch and dont follow with a dry one. I have never done this the hundreds of times I have shot this rifle.

But my guess is the wet chamber thing is bullsh*t.

The case was maybe corroded a little and the bullet with no lube probably grabbed the case when it expanded and ripped it.

That is my theory.
 
Broccoli Iglesias said:
And I usually have a wet chamber, when I wipe, I use a wet patch and dont follow with a dry one. I have never done this the hundreds of times I have shot this rifle.

But my guess is the wet chamber thing is bullsh*t.

The case was maybe corroded a little and the bullet with no lube probably grabbed the case when it expanded and ripped it.

That is my theory.
Click to expand...
Concur - wet chamber doesn't allow for friction to hold the case
No lube to help the bullet separate from the case
Corrosion, however minor, weakening the case slightly

Probably not any one factor
 
Broccoli Iglesias said:
I answered my question... TO LUBE is the way.

Shot 20 without lube, shot like sh*t.
Shot 10 lubed (same primer, charge ...), shot great.

And this happened to 2 cases. A full case went in, 3/4 came out. The rifle shot the piece out.

I am wondering why this happened.. this brass has been reloaded around 10 times. I annealed last week (no longer than 3 seconds).

Never happened to me before.

View attachment 632673
Click to expand...
DAUUM never had this happen to a straight wall cartridge. Is it possible to over-anneal creating brittle brass ?
 
Road_Clam said:
DAUUM never had this happen to a straight wall cartridge. Is it possible to over-anneal creating brittle brass ?
Click to expand...
I thought that, and I think it is possible. But no way I over annealed here. I used tempirlaq and timed it, it was 3 seconds per casing.
 
Broccoli Iglesias said:
I thought that, and I think it is possible. But no way I over annealed here. I used tempirlaq and timed it, it was 3 seconds per casing.
Click to expand...
Case separation only happens because the casing is forced and allowed to move in opposite directions. Usually from excessive headspace on bottleneck casings. The fact that happened on a straight wall cartridge is baffling me.
 
Road_Clam said:
Case separation only happens because the casing is forced and allowed to move in opposite directions. Usually from excessive headspace on bottleneck casings. The fact that happened on a straight wall cartridge is baffling me.
Click to expand...
Looks like it is not that rare. Post #11 has a link to a thread.
 
Broccoli Iglesias said:
1. Not lubed.
2. Usually a day ... or a week. I don't remember. But I will change to right away.

I found this online:

.45-70 case separation

I was shooting my sharps the other day when the top 1/3 of a starline .45-70 case separated from the backhalf. Load was 535 lyman postell bullet 60 grains of 1 1/2 f old eynsford powder with a walters wad .03 has anybody had this happen before? 225952
castboolits.gunloads.com

Aparently it is common.

And I usually have a wet chamber, when I wipe, I use a wet patch and dont follow with a dry one. I have never done this the hundreds of times I have shot this rifle.

But my guess is the wet chamber thing is bullsh*t.

The case was maybe corroded a little and the bullet with no lube probably grabbed the case when it expanded and ripped it.

That is my theory.
Click to expand...
My theory is that you and @andrew1220 are keeping score regarding blowing shit up. ;)

On a serious note, I agree with you. Good thread- may save me some trouble someday. I assume CR = curio and relic?
 
I always have wiped between shots.
I use a mix of 1 part Tru-Tap cutting fluid to 8 parts M-Pro7.
I never dry my chamber either.
Sometimes during a long match the stuff has soaked the action.

I HAVE had case separations like that before in my 45-90.
It wasn't because of a wet chamber.
The cases weren't clean enough inside and the soft bullet grabbed the case and tore it in half.
Once I started using bore brush in a drill,to clean the inside of the case mouth, the problem went away.
I did pull my hair out for a while though.

I never anneal my cases for BPCR guns.
I know it's all the rage now.
I was talking with Brian Chilson at one of our matches about annealing cases and he laughed saying he never did it.
Brian's a multi time National champ and holds many records in BPCR silhouette.

I don't re-sze my brass nor do I crimp.
My fired brass is de-primed, cleaned in an ultrasonic cleaner, dried then tumbled in walnut.
I use the bore brush before loading.
I my 40-65, my silhouette gun, a fired starline case measures about .411 ID.
I shoot either a Lyman Snover or a BACO409415 Postell
Both bullets measure pretty close to .410 un-sized and are a slip fit in the case.
I use an old Lyman 45 with a .412 die to lube them.
I drop 57.2 grains of Swiss 1 1/2, seat a .060 poly wad and compress enough so a seated bullet is just off the lands.
I make my own lube using bees wax, castor wax and castor oil and can post the ratios tomorrow if anyone's interested.

This is what works for me though I haven't made Master class with it.

Hope this helps
 

Similar threads

Is a "blue card" needed to buy components (shot, powder, primers..) in Rhode Island
Replies
4
Views
147
T-Unit
T
Makes me want to cry
Replies
10
Views
458
Love Machine
Love Machine
Bullets to keep cost down on reloading 223?
Replies
18
Views
509
EddieCoyle
EddieCoyle
i decided to cast rifle freedom seeds ..
Replies
19
Views
558
Lennypeters
Lennypeters
Quick change from 38 Spl to 357 Mag
Replies
20
Views
740
mac1911
M
Back
Top Bottom