This week's "Sure. You go first." stupid Massachusetts hypothetical

[Toast]

Sitting here bored thinking about stupid situations. In the midst, thought of one of those hypothetical "Hi, Andrea!" questions.

The .375 SOCOM was designed to use an AR-15 lower with a dedicated .375 upper. So, let's say you have one of those uppers. Now, the magazines for it by design fit into the standard STANAG well on an AR-15. As things would have it, a 10-round .375 SOCOM magazine is identical to a 30-round 5.56 magazine.

So, if you have the upper, can you buy all the standard capacity magazines you want, because all you're buying is 10-rounders for your gun?

 

[cookiecutter]

Not sure why you'd even need the upper -- you could have been buying the mags for the build you are planning - all you have to do is mark them appropriately, no??

 

[Toast]

Not sure why you'd even need the upper -- you could have been buying the mags for the build you are planning - all you have to do is mark them appropriately, no??

There's a product for that !

375 SOCOM Magazine Marking Band 3 pack (Red-Black)

Magazine Marking Band for .375 SOCOM. Both sides are labeled .375 SOCOM. Quickly identify mags or dress up your “Thumper”. Will also fit around many hand guards for quick gun identifica…

sighthoundballistics.com

 

[LakeTrout]

So, if you have the upper, can you buy all the standard capacity magazines you want, because all you're buying is 10-rounders for your gun?

Have to do it. No offense. But there is a MA gun law forum.

Now that that is over with, I actually like your thinking. Very creative. The answer is heck no you cannot buy new standard capacity 5.56 mags in MA. But its still a pretty interesting thought.

What would actually be awesome is if someone made 10 round .375 mags, that just so happened to accidentally hold 30 5.56 rounds if someone actually loaded the wrong ammo in them... wink wink.... Now, that I would have to wonder about being closer to the line of what is legal and what is not. Its MA, so I wouldn't count on it. But I'd really like someone to do it and find out.

 

[pastera]

Is the magazine capable of feeding more than ten rounds into gun?
It doesn't matter if you possess the correct gun or if the magazine is marketed for a larger cartridge where it only holds ten rounds.
The standard is it is ammunition feeding device capable of holding greater than ten rounds.
The cop isn't going to test it on your rifle or with your ammo
They will see it's an AR mag then will load it with 30 rounds then check to see if it fits and feeds their AR.

 

[AMV]

If the people that make the dedicated upper also make a dedicated mag, I would think you are good to go, However adapting a 556 mag I would think would be a no go, By dedicated Mag, if it had a follower that matched the contour of a 375 socom that would be a purpose built mag.

The opposite would be, if you put 11 round of 9mm in a 10 round .40 cal mag is it now a high cap??

 

[LakeTrout]

Is the magazine capable of feeding more than ten rounds into gun?
It doesn't matter if you possess the correct gun or if the magazine is marketed for a larger cartridge where it only holds ten rounds.
The standard is it is ammunition feeding device capable of holding greater than ten rounds.
The cop isn't going to test it on your rifle or with your ammo
They will see it's an AR mag then will load it with 30 rounds then check to see if it fits and feeds their AR.

Cops take a suspects mags and ammo and test them out in their patrol rifles?

 

[Snora]

The law doesn't allow you to have a magazine that holds over 10 rounds. Your fictional scenario includes a magazine that can hold over 10 rounds of one of the most popular rounds on the planet. I wouldn't want to be your lawyer.

 

[pastera]

Cops take a suspects mags and ammo and test them out in their patrol rifles?

Yes
Get arrested with an apparent 'high capacity' magazine and they will 'test' the device to create evidence against you.
It's not something they do roadside.

 

[pastera]

The opposite would be, if you put 11 round of 9mm in a 10 round .40 cal mag is it now a high cap??

No because the magazine would not function to feed a gun capable of firing in that configuration.

 

[kalash]

Is the magazine capable of feeding more than ten rounds into gun?
It doesn't matter if you possess the correct gun or if the magazine is marketed for a larger cartridge where it only holds ten rounds.
The standard is it is ammunition feeding device capable of holding greater than ten rounds.
The cop isn't going to test it on your rifle or with your ammo
They will see it's an AR mag then will load it with 30 rounds then check to see if it fits and feeds their AR.

By this logic a whole bunch of shotguns are illegal because mini shells exist.

 

[Mountain]

I shoot .458 SOCOM and just have a pile of pre-ban mags. IANAL and all that but you can buy or engrave baseplates with your caliber and 10 rounds plus install a follower specific to the socom rounds. Supposedly the follower centers the cartridge and will not hold 5.56/.223. Haven't tried that as my pre-bans have been working perfectly.

 

[LakeTrout]

By this logic a whole bunch of shotguns are illegal because mini shells exist.

Does the capacity law apply to non-detachable magazines too?

 

[AMV]

No because the magazine would not function to feed a gun capable of firing in that configuration.

Yes, yes it would function, A CZ 75 in 9 and .40 share the same exact mag, 9mm will also feed and function out of a .40 glock mag . So the question still stands

 

[Spartan65]

Cops take a suspects mags and ammo and test them out in their patrol rifles?

See it written in articles all the time.

Know of someone personally who did time for this also. Sucks.

 

[In God We Trust]

Is the magazine capable of feeding more than ten rounds into gun?
It doesn't matter if you possess the correct gun or if the magazine is marketed for a larger cartridge where it only holds ten rounds.
The standard is it is ammunition feeding device capable of holding greater than ten rounds.
The cop isn't going to test it on your rifle or with your ammo
They will see it's an AR mag then will load it with 30 rounds then check to see if it fits and feeds their AR.

So what if I can fit more than 10 rounds of .22LR in my 10 round 9mm magazine? Am I a felon?

 

[AMV]

Does the capacity law apply to non-detachable magazines too?

For semi shotguns it dose

 

[kalash]

I think the reality is that this is yet another gray area of the law. It might even be intentionally gray so it's easier for the state to come after you.

 

[AMV]

I think the reality is that this is yet another gray area of the law. It might even be intentionally gray so it's easier for the state to come after you.

I doubt it was intensional, the odd ball cartridges were not common when this law was written. And legislators aren’t knowledgeable enough to set that kind of trap

 

[Picton]

I think the reality is that this is yet another gray area of the law. It might even be intentionally gray so it's easier for the state to come after you.

This. A LOT of MA firearms law is like this.

OP, I like your idea and I think it could work. What you might want to do is buy many low-cap mags for guns you don't own, which your lawyer could then use later as evidence that you routinely purchase and possess mags for calibers you "plan on buying in the future." That way, when you claim the same thing about the .375 upper you're never going to buy, it'll sound more plausible to the jury.

 

[pastera]

So what if I can fit more than 10 rounds of .22LR in my 10 round 9mm magazine? Am I a felon?

Mass. General Laws c.140 § 121

Firearms sales; definitions; antique firearms; application of law; exceptions

www.mass.gov

Text - H.R.4296 - 103rd Congress (1993-1994): Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act

Text for H.R.4296 - 103rd Congress (1993-1994): Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act

www.congress.gov

“Large capacity feeding device”, (i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells; or (ii) a large capacity ammunition feeding device as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(31) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994. The term “large capacity feeding device” shall not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber ammunition.

The law uses the term "feeding device" so a combination of cartridge and device that cannot feed ammunition into a chamber through normal action of the gun would not be considered a feeding device under the law - if it were otherwise then a cardboard box can accept lots of bullets so it would be illegal.

An AR compatible magazine that CAN accept 5.56 in a quantity greater than ten IS by Mass laws definition a large capacity feeding device even if you change out the follower so that the last few rounds fail to properly feed. If it can feed the top round of 30 then it is a feeding device that can accept greater than ten rounds.

If you believe I'm wrong go ahead and test your theory - Please post your results for our instruction and entertainment

 

[appraiser]

constructive possession

If you do not have a 5.56 or .223 upper you should be able to convince a jury.

If you do, then you have to make a more persuasive argument to a bunch of people who have precious little knowledge of firearms

That means a Prosecutor, Judge, and Jury.

 

[LakeTrout]

Know of someone personally who did time for this also. Sucks.

That’s horrible. What a terrible place to live.

 

[greencobra]

I think the reality is that this is yet another gray area of the law. It might even be intentionally gray so it's easier for the state to come after you.

i think sometime, and of course i don't know for sure, that these laws are written "gray" for exactly that purpose. and it also makes it easier in the field for the cop to make a quick decision on legal or not. they are all "guilty" in the point of view of the cop, take 'em in, danno. it would also protect that cop against stray lawsuits later for making false charges. a kinda catch 22, no?

i also highly doubt the on scene officer is up to date on all ar calibers and the dates they made their first appearance in the platform. just grab 'em all and let it get sorted later.

 

[greencobra]

i forgot about this, my own situation regarding some pistol mags. i picked up one of those s&w m&p .22's, the full size one, off the classifieds some time ago. it only came at the time from factory with one 10 rd mag. i ordered 7 oem factory mags from ebay. all seven advertised in the ebay ad as 10 rounders. get them in, 6 are the 12 rd mags. the factory blister card is clearly marked 10 round with the 10 rd sku number & barcode. the mags themselves are stamped with a different sku number which i found out later to be the correct number for the 12's. huh! a factory packaging error? i don't know if smith makes and packages their own mags for that pistol, it's the one made by walther. i kept one mag package un-opened in case i got jammed i could produce it later and it might help. i don't know how jammed i'd have to be for law enforcement to push an old 70+ year old guy over two .22 rounds in a mag from a mismarked package. and the only difference between the 10 & 12 rounders besides the part number etched on the aluminum mag body is of course the little plastic bit that sits at the bottom of the mag to restrict the capacity. and that's not secured in any way, open the base up and it falls out in your hand.

 

[pastera]

constructive possession

If you do not have a 5.56 or .223 upper you should be able to convince a jury.

If you do, then you have to make a more persuasive argument to a bunch of people who have precious little knowledge of firearms

That means a Prosecutor, Judge, and Jury.

No - the law is the possession of a feeding device capable.
There is no need to also possess a gun that is compatible with the feeding device in question.

 

[drgrant]

Is the magazine capable of feeding more than ten rounds into gun?
It doesn't matter if you possess the correct gun or if the magazine is marketed for a larger cartridge where it only holds ten rounds.
The standard is it is ammunition feeding device capable of holding greater than ten rounds.
The cop isn't going to test it on your rifle or with your ammo
They will see it's an AR mag then will load it with 30 rounds then check to see if it fits and feeds their AR.

Lol then a bunch of multiplatform gun owners are already in violation. For example you can take a uspc 40 mag and put more rounds of 9mm in it, etc, etc, ad nauseam.....


If a pant shitter wanted to split the baby they would store those magazines with 10 rds of 375 in them. Or better yet disassemble them and store the parts separately.

 

[Toast]

Well, didn't take this thread long to go from my being bored to folks having their hair on fire.

No - the law is the possession of a feeding device capable.
There is no need to also possess a gun that is compatible with the feeding device in question.

FWIW, I do believe the law is "Possession of a large capacity feeding device without a Class A or Class B license".

See paragraph (m)

General Law - Part IV, Title I, Chapter 269, Section 10

malegislature.gov

 

[drgrant]

I do believe the law is "Possession of a large capacity feeding device without a Class A or Class B license".

General Law - Part IV, Title I, Chapter 269, Section 10

malegislature.gov

There are two laws. "LCAFD without a license" (which any ltc holder is exempt from) and the assault weapons ban. The AWB is more intricate.

 

[AMV]

So again if a 10 round .40 mag will hold and feed 11 rounds of 9mm.