This sign was posted at the school where my wife works...

[weekendracer]

I wish ALL schools had properly trained armed security.

Our children and young people deserve to be protected, at all costs!

The majority of the private schools for the rich do; so should every school.

Nobody wants to pay the $50-60k minimum+ benefits to get 'good' cops. Probably more like $100k anywhere near Boston.

I was thinking about putting on a uniform again to be a RSO, the pay is 'ok' down here stacked on my retirement. If I could get the same days off as my kids do, that would rock.

I can honestly say, most of what goes on in schools wouldn't get me riled up. Boys are gonna fight. Girls are gonna slapfest and hairpull. Bring seriously bad thoughts, I'd be ok dealing with it.
The kid with an ounce of weed would get it air tested. I'd probably only get irritated with a dealer.

 

[Retired-LEO]

Nobody wants to pay the $50-60k minimum+ benefits to get 'good' cops. Probably more like $100k anywhere near Boston.

I was thinking about putting on a uniform again to be a RSO, the pay is 'ok' down here stacked on my retirement. If I could get the same days off as my kids do, that would rock.

I can honestly say, most of what goes on in schools wouldn't get me riled up. Boys are gonna fight. Girls are gonna slapfest and hairpull. Bring seriously bad thoughts, I'd be ok dealing with it.
The kid with an ounce of weed would get it air tested. I'd probably only get irritated with a dealer.

Years ago after one of the horrific school shootings. The NRA and other organizations recommended having schools hire retired law enforcement "Part Time", each doing just a couple of days a week (so it would not affect their pension). Many thought this was a fantastic idea a retired L.E.O. doing say 2 days a week tops, to help protect kids and put a little spending money in their pockets. Another positive thing with this, is benefits would not be necessary. Retirees keep their medical insurance upon retirement and wouldn't need other benefits because it would be part time up to 16 hours a week. The big reason this got shot down is, the majority of schools are public and run by anti police & anti military socialists. I personally think it's a fantastic idea; one that the public should push for.

 

[weekendracer]

Years ago after one of the horrific school shootings. The NRA and other organizations recommended having schools hire retired law enforcement "Part Time", each doing just a couple of days a week (so it would not affect their pension). Many thought this was a fantastic idea a retired L.E.O. doing say 2 days a week tops, to help protect kids and put a little spending money in their pockets. Another positive thing with this, is benefits would not be necessary. Retirees keep their medical insurance upon retirement and wouldn't need other benefits because it would be part time up to 16 hours a week. The big reason this got shot down is, the majority of schools are public and run by anti police & anti military socialists. I personally think it's a fantastic idea; one that the public should push for.

I get what you're saying, I really do.

But if the thought is countering an active threat, I'm not so sure even I am the best to do it at this point. I don't shoot as often as I'd like and dynamic defense requires training. I'm not as quick on my feet due to substantial injuries to my back and lower body.

My take on it is that you are more likely to individually win the Powerball than be involved in what I would consider a 'school shooting', even if you consider the last couple of years. They simply do not happen as often as the 'news' would like you to believe.

What I consider a 'school shooting':

The school/children in general must be the target, not a specific person with collaterals.
It can't be a 'domestic', romantic partner is the actual target, even with collaterals.
It can't be targeted to a particular person or group, ie gang related.
It has to be during normal school hours, on the actual campus. This eliminates football games/sports for the most part.
It has to be a general attack, no individual targets, then I consider it a 'school shooting'.

There is some wiggle room in my broad definition, but you get the point.

 

[Retired-LEO]

I get what you're saying, I really do.

But if the thought is countering an active threat, I'm not so sure even I am the best to do it at this point. I don't shoot as often as I'd like and dynamic defense requires training. I'm not as quick on my feet due to substantial injuries to my back and lower body.

My take on it is that you are more likely to individually win the Powerball than be involved in what I would consider a 'school shooting', even if you consider the last couple of years. They simply do not happen as often as the 'news' would like you to believe.

What I consider a 'school shooting':

The school/children in general must be the target, not a specific person with collaterals.
It can't be a 'domestic', romantic partner is the actual target, even with collaterals.
It can't be targeted to a particular person or group, ie gang related.
It has to be during normal school hours, on the actual campus. This eliminates football games/sports for the most part.
It has to be a general attack, no individual targets, then I consider it a 'school shooting'.

There is some wiggle room in my broad definition, but you get the point.

Just the mere presence of armed security would reduce the chances significantly.

Not having armed security and with schools being anti-gun; is just asking for trouble.

Criminals will almost always pick the soft & easy target over the ones that have higher risks.

 

[Darksideblues42]

I wish ALL schools had properly trained armed security.

Our children and young people deserve to be protected, at all costs!

The majority of the private schools for the rich do; so should every school.

Years ago, I was in Calabria (Southern Italy) in a small village where my company was setting up an integration and sales office.

About 200 yards up the road was a school with high walls around the complex and a well worn path around the perimeter.

There were several two man teams walking the perimeter at all times, day and night.

One always had a Spas-12, the other had something I had never seen before (I now know it was a Spectre M4) or what I later found out was an SC70/90.

Our company host encouraged us to go talk to the patrols, but we needed to bring a lemon and some cold bottles of coke.

On our approach, subgun guy put some pressure into his sling while shotgun guy held up a hand. We pointed at the company down the road with our host waving to them. Once the pleasantries were out of the way, we handed over a fresh lemon from the courtyard of our company and some cold cokes. Shotgun guy whipped a knife out of his vest, and expertly cut the lemon into almost paper thin slices and added them to the coke.

They got to practice English and were happy for that. We of course asked about the school and they were happy to explain.

Seems the school was a "declared neutral site" between "import and export families" and several prominent "civilian" families sent their kids there. So that everyone had "skin in the game" some of the local police command staff sent their kids there too, then provided security.

That had to be the safest school ever.

 

[Picton]

Years ago after one of the horrific school shootings. The NRA and other organizations recommended having schools hire retired law enforcement "Part Time", each doing just a couple of days a week (so it would not affect their pension). Many thought this was a fantastic idea a retired L.E.O. doing say 2 days a week tops, to help protect kids and put a little spending money in their pockets. Another positive thing with this, is benefits would not be necessary. Retirees keep their medical insurance upon retirement and wouldn't need other benefits because it would be part time up to 16 hours a week. The big reason this got shot down is, the majority of schools are public and run by anti police & anti military socialists. I personally think it's a fantastic idea; one that the public should push for.

Who pays for it? You're probably talking about, oh, $50/hr, per school. That's $350 minimum. Suppose your town has five schools: you're now spending $1,750/day as a district. Per DAY. And there would certainly be overtime. That's almost half a million a year.

Which budget does it come out of? Because that's substantial, for a school budget, especially if the status quo (SROs) costs them nothing.

How does the PD union feel about retirees taking SRO gigs? I'm sure they're NOT hunky-dory with it. That's a lot of money out of their members' pockets, plus positional cuts.

The devil's in the details. It SOUNDS like a common-sense fix, but just try to get everyone on board with how to implement that. You're talking about three separate municipal bureacracies supposedly sitting down and agreeing on all this. In a world where there's already a much simpler solution: SROs.

Personally, I'd be in favor (in a state like MA, anyway) of taking interested teachers and turning them into auxiliary cops for the purposes of carrying in schools. Which would cost nothing. Bear in mind, teachers who are willing to carry? They just want to carry. They don't want extra money for it. Possibly a box of ammo, and a bit of legal coverage in the event of a shooting.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Personally, I'd be in favor (in a state like MA, anyway) of taking interested teachers and turning them into auxiliary cops for the purposes of carrying in schools. Which would cost nothing. Bear in mind, teachers who are willing to carry? They just want to carry. They don't want extra money for it. Possibly a box of ammo, and a bit of legal coverage in the event of a shooting.

Do you really think the teacher's union would tolerate teachers accepting an additional responsibility without compensation?

 

[Picton]

Do you really think the teacher's union would tolerate teachers accepting an additional responsibility without compensation?

No, I don't. I'm talking about the individual teachers involved.

Certainly the union would insist on all sorts of perks, which is why my aux-cop plan won't work any better than the retired-cop scenario. Sadly. Believe it or not, there are all sorts of times when teachers want to do extra stuff, but are prevented by the union. Most of the time? They just thumb their noses at the union and do the extra stuff anyhow.

 

[weekendracer]

Just the mere presence of armed security would reduce the chances significantly.

Not having armed security and with schools being anti-gun; is just asking for trouble.

Criminals will almost always pick the soft & easy target over the ones that have higher risks.

The thing is, these people aren't 'criminals' in the normal sense, if we are talking legit random mass or school shootings and not gang violence. They are having a psychotic break. I'd have to go look at the current numbers, but back when I was privy to a LOT of information on these things, a high percentage self deleted as soon as they encountered force of any kind. Using that logic, having RSO's makes a lot of sense. It's more like they really do just want 15 minutes of fame, even if it's after they have expired. Maybe the cops are responding faster and with appropriate force recently, skewing the numbers the other way now.

The Aurora and Las Vegas shooters are two that I can't wrap my head around off the top of my head. Complete random acts of violence as far as I can tell. Most others have some tie to either a person, a school, or workplace, 'something' that links the violence. Unless the Las Vegas guy just really hated country music?

Until I talk to someone that can run the numbers without an agenda either way, it's hard for me to really create an opinion. If anyone knows someone, I'd love to sit down and work on it within my parameters or definition of an actual 'school shooting'. Then see what the actual odds of something like this happening.

 

[paul73]

Just the mere presence of armed security would reduce the chances significantly.

Not having armed security and with schools being anti-gun; is just asking for trouble.

Criminals will almost always pick the soft & easy target over the ones that have higher risks.

You have very different issue there. It is not criminal issue, it’s a mental health issue. 1/4 of high school kids are assessed now to have mental problems, depression mostly, it is at bizarre crazy high levels and it is true. It is a f#cked up society and it drives kids insane, they run schools like jails and it all takes its toll. Middle school is a free ride with almost no work and high school junior year all kids sit till 1am every day doing damn homework and thinking of AP classes outcomes.

 

[tuna]

Personally, I'd be in favor (in a state like MA, anyway) of taking interested teachers and turning them into auxiliary cops for the purposes of carrying in schools. Which would cost nothing. Bear in mind, teachers who are willing to carry? They just want to carry. They don't want extra money for it. Possibly a box of ammo, and a bit of legal coverage in the event of a shooting.

Or simply amend the law against carrying firearms in schools does not apply to those who are employed by the school. I'm sure HR and the union would screw it up and cost a teacher their job if found out, but at least no jail time for breaking a stupid rule.



Our town has an awesome SRO in the school (school runs K-12, so they only need one). Guy isn't young, but no where near retirement age and has a great relationship with the kids. He spends a lot of time chatting with the kids that get sent to the hall, and it's a pretty positive experience for the kids, at least according to my son, who talked with him a lot in the hallway last year, lol.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Nice.

That sign doesn't even need to be true to potentially save lives.

My grandmother had an attempted break-in by three "urban yoofs" in Dorchester years ago. WHILE SHE WAS HOME SCREAMING! Think on that. My granddad had occasional bouts of depression and he attempted suicide several times so even if it was able (Dorchester. . . . Boston. . . . permit?? LOL) a gun was not an option.

So my grandmother bought a BEWARE OF DOG sign and stuck it on the front of the porch. We were told when we were over and hanging out with the neighbor kids to talk about "Sandy" and how mean she was and how she had to be on a leash IN the house. She didn't bark, she just growled.


A few years later, she was living in the 5-story apartment building behind Eire Pub on. . . . Adams St. 3rd floor. Had 2 "urban yoofs" climb a tree ONTO HER BALCONY and try and break in. WTF,O???

 

[Picton]

Or simply amend the law against carrying firearms in schools does not apply to those who are employed by the school. I'm sure HR and the union would screw it up and cost a teacher their job if found out, but at least no jail time for breaking a stupid rule.

They'll never change that law, and by their logic they needn't: there's already a carve-out allowing principals to exempt anyone they want to. Meaning, in theory, that every teacher in MA could carry today, legally, if their principals were simply willing to sign a letter saying so.

They'll point to that provision and tell you there's no need for a new law, and actually, they'd be right.