This May Be An Extremely Dumb Question

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Secesh

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But I'll ask it anyway. NH is open carry, and I have a CCW. So, if I'm carrying concealed, and happen to print, or someone notices my grip (by my fault); is it a problem? I'm carrying comcealed at the time... but since open is legal.... well, is it an issue (besides some little old lady calling the cops)?

Just curious. I usually make sure I either have a long enough jacket or shirt, but it's impossible, realistically, to ensure that it will 'never' be seen. Even the bottom of a mag pouch. I brush it when going for my wallet. People scared of guns really piss me off.
 
No. You might get pinged by the police, but that's about it. When ayotte was AG she basically wrote a legal opinion that "other peoples alarm at someone merely carrying a gun is not an invitation for harassment by law enforcement" more or less. If some of the FSP types that act like dicks to the cops can do it (and not get arrested) then for normal people an OC encounter with the police in NH is easy. Not to mention, outside of places like Salem, Nashua, and Manchester, the odds of someone whining about you OCing go down considerably anyways. A "fleeting print" is nothing to even be concerned about.

-Mike
 
Another persons fear is no justification for you to not exercise your constitutional rights. Printing, open-carrying ( meaning, if your shirt flips up and someone sees your gun ) is not illegal. From both perspectives, the carrier and the observer I wouldn't care.
 
Me and my buddy didnt take our OC guns off when we left the spring breakout shoot in Peterborough and the people at the ice cream place on 101 in Milford didnt say a word, nor did any of the people coming in, including the couple and their small children. They chose to order inside, which is their own business, but they didnt complain. A guy in his early 20s was staring at my buddies gun, but didnt say anything.

Alot of why we protect OC is to protect CC. I rarely OC, just to maintain a tactical advantage, but protecting OC covers you for CC mishaps.
 
GraftonNH said:
Well said! This exact scenario could cost you your LTC in MA, effectively a non-issue in NH.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately this scenario in MA (or Philly) could get you shot by a cop. At minimum the helicopters will be up and the regional tactical team called in.
 
I don't have my NH P&R permit, so I always OC when I'm in NH. I've never had an issue in Rindge or Jaffrey...except for one wide-eyed kid in line behind me at the convenience store [laugh]
 
I'd like to add that although you will generally be fine OC'ing in NH there are a lot of people who come up here, particularly the lakes region during the summer who aren't from NH and may not be familiar with our laws. I don't OC and I have yet to hear of it being an issue, but just something to be aware of.
 
Marcus99 said:
I'd like to add that although you will generally be fine OC'ing in NH there are a lot of people who come up here, particularly the lakes region during the summer who aren't from NH and may not be familiar with our laws. I don't OC and I have yet to hear of it being an issue, but just something to be aware of.
Click to expand...

A good point. Why cause undue attention to yourself? Frankly, Some NH LEOs are not really comfortable with the state's OC law (this statement is anecdotal and not theoretical). So somebody complains, and you get "pinged" by the police, no big deal according to some. Just remember this: you have now appeared on the law enforcement radar screen and more than likely this encounter will be recorded. There is now a piece of information about you which could, when combined with other data about you, could at a later time be used in working up a background on you in the course of an investigation.

Before you totally dismiss the above paragraph as some kind of paranoid delusion by someone who just doesn't understand about the "Live Free or Die State"...I want to respectfully point out, that it is very easy to generalize about a region or cultural attitude. Maybe nine out of ten encounters with the police in NH would result in nothing more than checking you out and sending you merrily on your way. But what happens when you get the particular officer who does have issues?

Sometimes, I really think people are too enmeshed in ideology and what they think should be correct. The simple truth is that laws are not enforced impartially or fairly even when those enforcing them believe that they are. The prejudices of the individual LEO are going to be reflected in the encounter that you have with one. If you don't think so, merely refer to the recent Philadelphia Shooting (now closed) thread. We spend a lot of time on this forum over the years talking about what to do if you have an encounter with a LEO, but very little about how the LEO is going to react to you.

The simple rule to follow is this: don't do anything that will intentionally attract the attention of law enforcement. I know an inadvertent printing or flash of a concealed weapon is not intentional and will probably not cause any kind of a ruckus (but even that is not 100 percent guaranteed despite what a former NH AG wrote) but nevertheless the best course of action is to exercise the same care when carrying concealed in NH as in any other place. As far as open carry goes, depending on the circumstances, you are bringing undue attention on yourself.

There are some who say "bring it on"...don't acquiesce etc. But why create a hassle for yourself? Life is full enough of them. Yeah, nine out of ten times in NH you are not going to find yourself in a "situation" but what about that 10th time? I fully agree that it is important to take a stand on certain issues, but I also believe that one must pick and choose his or her battles very carefully.

"well punk, do you feel lucky? Do yah ?"...Dirty Harry

Mark L.
 
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Accidental exposure or printing while in CC

Great responce Mark. I have had to bring myself to the level of confidence that I am comfortable while CCing. Right shirt / jacket etc. I had to work at not checking myself, walking differently, posturing, or any other of many thing CCs do when new to CC. To me that activity is more of an attention getter than a CC going about their business with confidence and composure. There was in here some where a list of all the things new CCers do and don't do that give them away. As long as I am not acting out of place, a print or flash of holster grip or muzzle should not be a problem.
 
Marcus99 said:
I'd like to add that although you will generally be fine OC'ing in NH there are a lot of people who come up here, particularly the lakes region during the summer who aren't from NH and may not be familiar with our laws. I don't OC and I have yet to hear of it being an issue, but just something to be aware of.
Click to expand...

F'em!
 
mark056 said:
A good point. Why cause undue attention to yourself? Frankly, Some NH LEOs are not really comfortable with the state's OC law (this statement is anecdotal and not theoretical). So somebody complains, and you get "pinged" by the police, no big deal according to some. Just remember this: you have now appeared on the law enforcement radar screen and more than likely this encounter will be recorded. There is now a piece of information about you which could, when combined with other data about you, could at a later time be used in working up a background on you in the course of an investigation.

Before you totally dismiss the above paragraph as some kind of paranoid delusion by someone who just doesn't understand about the "Live Free or Die State"...I want to respectfully point out, that it is very easy to generalize about a region or cultural attitude. Maybe nine out of ten encounters with the police in NH would result in nothing more than checking you out and sending you merrily on your way. But what happens when you get the particular officer who does have issues?

Sometimes, I really think people are too enmeshed in ideology and what they think should be correct. The simple truth is that laws are not enforced impartially or fairly even when those enforcing them believe that they are. The prejudices of the individual LEO are going to be reflected in the encounter that you have with one. If you don't think so, merely refer to the recent Philadelphia Shooting (now closed) thread. We spend a lot of time on this forum over the years talking about what to do if you have an encounter with a LEO, but very little about how the LEO is going to react to you.

The simple rule to follow is this: don't do anything that will intentionally attract the attention of law enforcement. I know an inadvertent printing or flash of a concealed weapon is not intentional and will probably not cause any kind of a ruckus (but even that is not 100 percent guaranteed despite what a former NH AG wrote) but nevertheless the best course of action is to exercise the same care when carrying concealed in NH as in any other place. As far as open carry goes, depending on the circumstances, you are bringing undue attention on yourself.

There are some who say "bring it on"...don't acquiesce etc. But why create a hassle for yourself? Life is full enough of them. Yeah, nine out of ten times in NH you are not going to find yourself in a "situation" but what about that 10th time? I fully agree that it is important to take a stand on certain issues, but I also believe that one must pick and choose his or her battles very carefully.

"well punk, do you feel lucky? Do yah ?"...Dirty Harry

Mark L.
Click to expand...

Mark, I disagree.

If the cops have a problem with it, that's on them.

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass what cops or anyone else thinks about me carrying a gun, open or otherwise.
 
Mr Weebles said:
Mark, I disagree.

If the cops have a problem with it, that's on them.

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass what cops or anyone else thinks about me carrying a gun, open or otherwise.
Click to expand...

You may not give a "rat's ass" about what cops or anyone else thinks. That is noble and idealistic but unfortunately not very realistic. While you may prevail in the end in any firearms related charges, are you willing to spend time in jail? Are you willing to go through the humiliation of being arrested and booked?

Now from what you have shared with us recently, it would appear that you will soon have to seek other employment. You also, I believe if memory serves me correctly, have a child in college. Therefore, are you prepared to financially assume the burden of competent legal defense?

In my estimation, a person like you, is a perfect candidate for a police "incident." You are white (presumably), male, middle-aged, middle class, reasonably well educated and articulate. You see yourself as a patriotic American who loves the constitution and stalwartly believes the Bill of Rights. You are exactly the kind of person that has been held to be an ideal of what an American citizen should be. You are not afraid to speak your mind, either and stand up for what you believe. After all, if you are doing nothing illegal, how or why would the police even bother with you, don't they have "real" criminals to apprehend? Well, they may do it simply because they can and you are a relatively easy target because you don' really understand "the system." You actually believe what they taught you in high school civics class, and remember how nice the police were when they opened up the new station and invited the whole community down for coffee and cake to show it off, and oh, there was that nice detective who spoke about crime and Neighborhood Watch at your local organization or club.

Here's the problem: If you piss off the police or cause undue attention to yourself by the police, you are inviting trouble. There are all kinds of ways you can be harassed and the courts will probably not side with you. The police can say you resisted arrest. The police can say that you brandished a weapon, there are some who might even plant some illegal substance on you, "Impossible" you say. "This is a country founded on laws, this is not a police state"....well this is a country founded on laws, and maybe your rights will be respected, and maybe if you are involved in some kind of "misunderstanding" with the police you will prevail in court. All of these things are possible and even today in 2011 probable. On the other hand, you just might hit the jackpot and find yourself at the mercy of a sadistic bully or bullies with badges, and frankly you don't stand much of a chance to prevail. I know people like this, and in some cases have worked with people like this. The thing of it is, is even though other cops might not condone that behavior, no one is going to step up and say that you are a victim. That's the system.

Now you can talk about how you will stand up to injustice, and your honor is worth more than your life and all of that, but how would you really feel in the corner of a holding cell after you have been maced or tased or beaten because you "resisted." Do you honestly think this stuff doesn't happen? True, it doesn't happen often, but it happens enough.

I think of all the times I used to be stopped by the police on my way to work at the Crime Lab on the midnight shift. I could never keep track of all the "flickering license plate lights" I used to have (funny I never saw them flicker). It's a good thing that I had identification on me issued by a law enforcement agency, I never had a problem and I was always respectful.

So exercise your rights, don't give a rat's ass about what anyone thinks, and be sure to project that attitude when you are caught in the crosshairs of a bored or angry cop who gets excited because he sees that you are carrying a gun. Be sure to quote some Patrick Henry and definitely quote the 2A as you are having the shit kicked out of you. (Yeah, even in "Live Free or Die, New Hampshire).

I don't know how things are in your world, but that's the way they are in mine. You're a stand-up guy, I just hope you never meet the cop that wants you to make his or her day.

Remember, in most agencies it is the police who police the police [wink]

Mark L.
 
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mcb said:
Unfortunately this scenario in MA (or Philly) could get you shot by a cop. At minimum the helicopters will be up and the regional tactical team called in.
Click to expand...

Don't forget we in mass will roll the the Tac team, choppers, evacuate an entire mall for an umbrella[rolleyes]
Geez how could I forget the giant state police mobile command center to[laugh]
 
mark056 said:
You may not give a "rat's ass" about what cops or anyone else thinks. That is noble and idealistic but unfortunately not very realistic. While you may prevail in the end in any firearms related charges, are you willing to spend time in jail? Are you willing to go through the humiliation of being arrested and booked?

Now from what you have shared with us recently, it would appear that you will soon have to seek other employment. You also, I believe if memory serves me correctly, have a child in college. Therefore, are you prepared to financially assume the burden of competent legal defense?

In my estimation, a person like you, is a perfect candidate for a police "incident." You are white (presumably), male, middle-aged, middle class, reasonably well educated and articulate. You see yourself as a patriotic American who loves the constitution and stalwartly believes the Bill of Rights. You are exactly the kind of person that has been held to be an ideal of what an American citizen should be. You are not afraid to speak your mind, either and stand up for what you believe. After all, if you are doing nothing illegal, how or why would the police even bother with you, don't they have "real" criminals to apprehend? Well, they may do it simply because they can and you are a relatively easy target because you don' really understand "the system." You actually believe what they taught you in high school civics class, and remember how nice the police were when they opened up the new station and invited the whole community down for coffee and cake to show it off, and oh, there was that nice detective who spoke about crime and Neighborhood Watch at your local organization or club.

Here's the problem: If you piss off the police or cause undue attention to yourself by the police, you are inviting trouble. There are all kinds of ways you can be harassed and the courts will probably not side with you. The police can say you resisted arrest. The police can say that you brandished a weapon, there are some who might even plant some illegal substance on you, "Impossible" you say. "This is a country founded on laws, this is not a police state"....well this is a country founded on laws, and maybe your rights will be respected, and maybe if you are involved in some kind of "misunderstanding" with the police you will prevail in court. All of these things are possible and even today in 2011 probable. On the other hand, you just might hit the jackpot and find yourself at the mercy of a sadistic bully or bullies with badges, and frankly you don't stand much of a chance to prevail. I know people like this, and in some cases have worked with people like this. The thing of it is, is even though other cops might not condone that behavior, no one is going to step up and say that you are a victim. That's the system.

Now you can talk about how you will stand up to injustice, and your honor is worth more than your life and all of that, but how would you really feel in the corner of a holding cell after you have been maced or tased or beaten because you "resisted." Do you honestly think this stuff doesn't happen? True, it doesn't happen often, but it happens enough.

I think of all the times I used to be stopped by the police on my way to work at the Crime Lab on the midnight shift. I could never keep track of all the "flickering license plate lights" I used to have (funny I never saw them flicker). It's a good thing that I had identification on me issued by a law enforcement agency, I never had a problem and I was always respectful.

So exercise your rights, don't give a rat's ass about what anyone thinks, and be sure to project that attitude when you are caught in the crosshairs of a bored or angry cop who gets excited because he sees that you are carrying a gun. Be sure to quote some Patrick Henry and definitely quote the 2A as you are having the shit kicked out of you. (Yeah, even in "Live Free or Die, New Hampshire).

I don't know how things are in your world, but that's the way they are in mine. You're a stand-up guy, I just hope you never meet the cop that wants you to make his or her day.

Remember, in most agencies it is the police who police the police [wink]

Mark L.
Click to expand...

Could you cite an example of this happening in NH please?
 
mark056 said:
You may not give a "rat's ass" about what cops or anyone else thinks. That is noble and idealistic but unfortunately not very realistic. While you may prevail in the end in any firearms related charges, are you willing to spend time in jail? Are you willing to go through the humiliation of being arrested and booked?

Now from what you have shared with us recently, it would appear that you will soon have to seek other employment. You also, I believe if memory serves me correctly, have a child in college. Therefore, are you prepared to financially assume the burden of competent legal defense?

In my estimation, a person like you, is a perfect candidate for a police "incident." You are white (presumably), male, middle-aged, middle class, reasonably well educated and articulate. You see yourself as a patriotic American who loves the constitution and stalwartly believes the Bill of Rights. You are exactly the kind of person that has been held to be an ideal of what an American citizen should be. You are not afraid to speak your mind, either and stand up for what you believe. After all, if you are doing nothing illegal, how or why would the police even bother with you, don't they have "real" criminals to apprehend? Well, they may do it simply because they can and you are a relatively easy target because you don' really understand "the system." You actually believe what they taught you in high school civics class, and remember how nice the police were when they opened up the new station and invited the whole community down for coffee and cake to show it off, and oh, there was that nice detective who spoke about crime and Neighborhood Watch at your local organization or club.

Here's the problem: If you piss off the police or cause undue attention to yourself by the police, you are inviting trouble. There are all kinds of ways you can be harassed and the courts will probably not side with you. The police can say you resisted arrest. The police can say that you brandished a weapon, there are some who might even plant some illegal substance on you, "Impossible" you say. "This is a country founded on laws, this is not a police state"....well this is a country founded on laws, and maybe your rights will be respected, and maybe if you are involved in some kind of "misunderstanding" with the police you will prevail in court. All of these things are possible and even today in 2011 probable. On the other hand, you just might hit the jackpot and find yourself at the mercy of a sadistic bully or bullies with badges, and frankly you don't stand much of a chance to prevail. I know people like this, and in some cases have worked with people like this. The thing of it is, is even though other cops might not condone that behavior, no one is going to step up and say that you are a victim. That's the system.

Now you can talk about how you will stand up to injustice, and your honor is worth more than your life and all of that, but how would you really feel in the corner of a holding cell after you have been maced or tased or beaten because you "resisted." Do you honestly think this stuff doesn't happen? True, it doesn't happen often, but it happens enough.

I think of all the times I used to be stopped by the police on my way to work at the Crime Lab on the midnight shift. I could never keep track of all the "flickering license plate lights" I used to have (funny I never saw them flicker). It's a good thing that I had identification on me issued by a law enforcement agency, I never had a problem and I was always respectful.

So exercise your rights, don't give a rat's ass about what anyone thinks, and be sure to project that attitude when you are caught in the crosshairs of a bored or angry cop who gets excited because he sees that you are carrying a gun. Be sure to quote some Patrick Henry and definitely quote the 2A as you are having the shit kicked out of you. (Yeah, even in "Live Free or Die, New Hampshire).

I don't know how things are in your world, but that's the way they are in mine. You're a stand-up guy, I just hope you never meet the cop that wants you to make his or her day.

Remember, in most agencies it is the police who police the police [wink]

Mark L.
Click to expand...


Wow, we have just met the poster child for all ma**h***s!
 
At least then we'd have good beer, and cheese to go with the whine

mark056 said:
...I fully agree that it is important to take a stand on certain issues, but I also believe that one must pick and choose his or her battles very carefully.
Click to expand...

This kind of attitude leads to people deciding not to take a public stance in favor of gun rights, to not standing up against local anti-gun politicians, and all the rest that makes Massachusetts more gun-unfriendly every year.


New Hampshirites need to exercise our right to OC, or we may as well be Wisconsin.
 
Gonzo said:
Could you cite an example of this happening in NH please?
Click to expand...

Ward Bird comes to mind...

I know that he received a lot of support. In the end the parole board recommended that he be pardoned. Even the county attorney testified in his behalf at a pardon hearing. This did not happen. His sentence was commuted but the conviction still is on the books. This means that he is still a convicted felon and is banned from owning firearms for the rest of his life. Your Democratic Gov Lynch (explain to me how a Dem can be elected gov in New Hampshire four times?) refused to pardon him. This is a guy who at one time in the past came to the aid of a police officer.

All he did was have a firearm in his possession while he ordered a trespasser off of HIS PROPERTY.

Mark L.
 
Last edited:
mark056 said:
Ward Bird comes to mind...

I know that he received a lot of support. In the end the parole board recommended that he be pardoned. Even the county attorney testified in his behalf at a pardon hearing. This did not happen. His sentence was commuted but the conviction still is on the books. This means that he is still a convicted felon and is banned from owning firearms for the rest of his life. Your Democratic Gov Lynch (explain to me how a Dem can be elected gov in New Hampshire four times?) refused to pardon him. This is a guy who at one time in the past came to the aid of a police officer.

All he did was have a firearm in his possession while he ordered a trespasser off of HIS PROPERTY.

Mark L.
Click to expand...

That wasn't one angry cop looking to make an example out of someone.
 
Gonzo said:
That wasn't one angry cop looking to make an example out of someone.
Click to expand...

No it was the nice friendly police responding to a complaint and believing a known liar and a convicted criminal. Instead of one angry cop, it was a whole system that decided to make an example out of him and despite all the protests, and all the good people who stood up for Mr Bird, he is still a convicted felon who can never own guns, exhausted financial resources, and had to spend several months in prison with real bad guys all because the police decided that he was a bad guy, when in fact all it was, was a "he said, she said".

You can have all the rallies and all the outrage in the world up there over how Mr Bird has been treated but at the end of the day, Ward Bird is still a convicted felon because he exercised his 2A Rights.

The Police upon investigating the circumstances could have made the whole thing go away....but they didn't and poor Mr Bird was prosecuted for a non-crime. Some will say it is a victory in that he rallied all the support he did, but again the end result is that he is a convicted felon with no chance of ever owning firearms. Sure, he might get a pardon from a different governor someday, but that is not a given.

This case in the broadest sense is exactly what I am talking about.

Mark L.
 
Last edited:
mark056 said:
No it was the nice friendly police responding to a complaint and believing a known liar and a convicted criminal. Instead of one angry cop, it was a whole system that decided to make an example out of him and despite all the protests, and all the good people who stood up for Mr Bird, he is still a convicted felon who can never own guns, exhausted financial resources, and had to spend several months in prison with real bad guys all because the police decided that he was a bad guy, when in fact all it was, was a "he said, she said".

You can have all the rallies and all the outrage in the world up there over how Mr Bird has been treated but at the end of the day, Ward Bird is still a convicted felon because he exercised his 2A Rights.

The Police upon investigating the circumstances could have made the whole thing go away....but they didn't and poor Mr Bird was prosecuted for a non-crime. Some will say it is a victory in that he rallied all the support he did, but again the end result is that he is a convicted felon with no chance of ever owning firearms. Sure, he might get a pardon from a different governor someday, but that is not a given.

This case in the broadest sense is exactly what I am talking about.

Mark L.
Click to expand...

Fantastic. So you're afraid to OC in NH because of this? Even though we have ample testimony from plenty of NH residents and non-residents alike that it's ok? And you're advising others to be afraid of doing something legal?
 
Gonzo said:
Fantastic. So you're afraid to OC in NH because of this? Even though we have ample testimony from plenty of NH residents and non-residents alike that it's ok? And you're advising others to be afraid of doing something legal?
Click to expand...

Wow...you must have a little extra caffeine in your coffee this morning Gonz [smile] I am not telling anyone to be afraid and in no where in this thread have I suggested that you be afraid. What I am saying is use discretion and common sense. OC in NH is perfectly legal, just like it is in Arizona and some other states. What I am saying, is if you choose that option, you have to be willing to accept the fact that you may find yourself in a position where you might have a less than positive encounter with the police, and that despite being in the right, you might not prevail.

If you go walking around with your shootin' iron strapped to your hip and project the attitude: "I'm openly packin' because I can and you can't do anything about it, Mr. Policeman, so F you" You are not going to get very far, and you can find yourself in a hassle. Oh, they won't get you for OC, but more than likely disturbing the peace or creating a public disturbance or maybe even resisting arrest. As long as you are willing to accept the fact that you may have to deal with some aspect of the criminal justice system even though you are in the right, then go for it.

If you want to OC, OC...don't be afraid, be prepared and that is a big difference. If you want to make a statement by OC, by all means do so, but remember that you are inviting undue attention to yourself with OC. If you want to make a statement,however, create a scenario where you are going to get the most positive feedback, pick and choose battles wisely which is how agendas are forwarded and promulgated. Remember you are trying to win hearts and minds to our cause, so what is the best way to do it? Otherwise, chances are that you are going to be regarded as some whacked out gun nut. I believe that there have been some Open Carry Rallies such as the one up in Salisbury where a bunch of folks OC'd while they picked up litter, for instance. On the other hand walking down the main street of Manchester, NH in the middle of the day in OC mode is more than likely going to get yourself some unwanted attention.

One question for you: why isn't OC more prevalent in NH? Since virtually anyone who can own a handgun can do it, why isn't it done more?

Mark L.
 
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