Taxonomy inquiry

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andy t

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After reading these boards, I noticed that it is considered a poor form to call a gun a weapon. Not being a native English speaker, I am curious where this issue arises from? In Russian, I have no problem referring to firearms as weapons with no stigma. Is there some connotation I am missing?
What is even more puzzling, is the number of people calling their firearms "toys".
What gives? In one of the training classes I took, the instructor mentioned the power of speech and perception. If you are a rightly and call your left hand "weak", it will be so. Conversely calling a finely crafted piece of machinery that can unleash havoc with a press of a trigger a "toy" is rather strange to me.
Am I missing somehting here? Or do I need to sign up for psych 101 again?

Andrew.
 
It depends on who you talk to. There are some believe that using
the word "weapon" has some malicious connotation to it; eg- that anything
called a weapon has a sole purpouse of being used to injure another
human. Of course, even "weapons" have no will of their own and
cannot hurt or injure ANYONE without the wielder doing something
bad with that weapon.

I could (personally) care less either way... some people get ticked
off about it.

I normally don't go out of my way to call my guns "weapons" as
a matter of course, but I'm not going to get all bent out of shape
if someone does. Of course, I also don't get bent out of shape about
"Assault Rifle" . (I agree that "Assault Weapon" is a pretty dumbass
term, though, it's purely a weasel word phrase designed to make something
sound more scary than it actually is).

I guess it depends on the context. If you go to the range and you see
a guy using a real fancy .22 to cut out paper, the gun really isn't being
used as a weapon, and it probably isn't even intended to be used as
such, either. EG, I think it would be inappropriate/weird for someone
to say to that guy- "nice weapon you have there" because it just sounds
bizarre given the context of what the guy is doing with it, and what it
is. So in some situations I would agree that using the term "weapon",
at a minimum sounds dumb.

Again, it's all about context. If you're trying to convert an
anti, saying "weapon" every 10 seconds might not help you get where you
want to be. (some of this is subconscious effect type deal... saying "rifle"
or "pistol" instead of the generic "weapon" sounds less intimidating.)

On the other hand, if you're shooting with some LE/Mil types at the range,
the word is likely to be thrown around a lot more... because these individuals
work with guns more often in a combat or defensive role. "Weapon" is a
term that comes naturally to these people- it means a gun, knife, or
any other "combat arm".

WRT toys.... "Toy" is subjective. To many, something like a
"range toy" is a gun that we'd likely never use for self defense or
even competition, but is still fun to play around with. An example
would be something like a MAC-11 pistol, or an Uzi semiautomatic
pistol. Those guns aren't practical for much of anything... but they still
would be fun range "toys" to use for plinking or whatever.

To others a "Toy" is something they wanted but didn't -need- So under
that criteria, a toy could be anything. To one guy a toy could be a pre-86
machine gun that cost him $15,000. He might not "need" it for anything practical, but
it's still fun to take it out and shoot it once in awhile.

Just my .02.... opinions will vary WIDELY on this subject... semantics... etc... ugh. lol.


-Mike
 
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I prefer the term "firearm" or just "gun" to the use of the word "weapon." None of my firearms would be dangerous to any other human being unless someone decided to attack me with intent to physically harm me.
 
The people on the international style target shooting boards go into a hissy fit if a 22 target pistol is called a weapon. It may be because these people are inclined to only shoot international olympic style pistol games and feel that they are different from other gun owners. Especially from those in countries where it is allowed to own guns that are to be used as weapons.
Some countries only allow those pistols that are used exclusively for international target shooting disciplines. For instance, when rapid fire pistol changed the rules to disallow 22 short cartridges, the people owning these rapid fire pistols had to turn in their gun to the government or have it converted to shoot long rifle. This may be where some people are coming from with their deeply held opinions of trivial vernacular.

Anyone with good discriminatory processes relating to self defense will also understand that guns are the preferred weapon to stop a deadly attack because of their compact power.

Guns are also toys for some people. Toys need to be used responsibly also.
Model rockets are toys that can burn up lots of shit if they aren't used properly. A big-wheel should not be ridden on the highway in the wrong direction. That would be some improper uses of toys.

Guns are sports equipment.
Guns are weapons.
Guns are toys.

Some things are interchangeable, such as a tee ball bat.

Feinwerkbau manufactures only the highest quality sporting firearms for competition. They do not make any defensive firearms, yet they use the term weapon thoughout the operating manuals of their guns.
 
Last edited:
I have some guns.
I have some weapons.
I also have a toy or two.

My guns are used for hunting and for pest / varmit control.
My weapons are used for personal defense, and the defense of my home.
My toys are part of a collection and are not pratical for hunting or defense.

I'm not really strict about speaking of them by one term or another, it depends on whom I'm speaking with.
 
drgrant said:
It depends on who you talk to. There are some believe that using
the word "weapon" has some malicious connotation to it; eg- that anything
called a weapon has a sole purpouse of being used to injure another
human. Of course, even "weapons" have no will of their own and
cannot hurt or injure ANYONE without the wielder doing something
bad with that weapon.

I could (personally) care less either way... some people get ticked
off about it.

I normally don't go out of my way to call my guns "weapons" as
a matter of course, but I'm not going to get all bent out of shape
if someone does. Of course, I also don't get bent out of shape about
"Assault Rifle" . (I agree that "Assault Weapon" is a pretty dumbass
term, though, it's purely a weasel word phrase designed to make something
sound more scary than it actually is).

I guess it depends on the context. If you go to the range and you see
a guy using a real fancy .22 to cut out paper, the gun really isn't being
used as a weapon, and it probably isn't even intended to be used as
such, either. EG, I think it would be inappropriate/weird for someone
to say to that guy- "nice weapon you have there" because it just sounds
bizarre given the context of what the guy is doing with it, and what it
is. So in some situations I would agree that using the term "weapon",
at a minimum sounds dumb.

Again, it's all about context. If you're trying to convert an
anti, saying "weapon" every 10 seconds might not help you get where you
want to be. (some of this is subconscious effect type deal... saying "rifle"
or "pistol" instead of the generic "weapon" sounds less intimidating.)

On the other hand, if you're shooting with some LE/Mil types at the range,
the word is likely to be thrown around a lot more... because these individuals
work with guns more often in a combat or defensive role. "Weapon" is a
term that comes naturally to these people- it means a gun, knife, or
any other "combat arm".

WRT toys.... "Toy" is subjective. To many, something like a
"range toy" is a gun that we'd likely never use for self defense or
even competition, but is still fun to play around with. An example
would be something like a MAC-11 pistol, or an Uzi semiautomatic
pistol. Those guns aren't practical for much of anything... but they still
would be fun range "toys" to use for plinking or whatever.

To others a "Toy" is something they wanted but didn't -need- So under
that criteria, a toy could be anything. To one guy a toy could be a pre-86
machine gun that cost him $15,000. He might not "need" it for anything practical, but
it's still fun to take it out and shoot it once in awhile.

Just my .02.... opinions will vary WIDELY on this subject... semantics... etc... ugh. lol.


-Mike
Click to expand...

I think you've nailed this one.
 
I honestly haven't give this much thought, and routinely refer to guns as "weapons." I issue range commands at Bullseye matches just about every week and virtually always say (for example) "Make your weapons safe, . . . etc., etc." For the purpose of reinforcing safe gun handling it's probably good to remind ourselves every now and again that they are, or at least can be, lethal weapons. I would never refer to guns as "toys" and have never heard anyone else do so.
 
I'll refer to a gun as a weapon when I'm using it in the context of something intended to cause injury or deter an opponent. I also refer to batons, knives, axes, spears, and chemical sprays as weapons when that is the intent. If I'm being descriptive, I'll use the term that most accurately identifies the object, such as "gun" "pistol" rifle" or "knife'.
 
There are lots of terms used for hand held firearms. "Gun" is not necessarily correct as it properly refers to artillery that fires projectiles at high velocity, such as tank guns, or naval guns. A gunner is a member of the team charged with the task of operating and firing a gun. Thus, by military terms, mortars and all hand-held firearms are excluded from this definition. The exception to this is the shotgun, which is hand-held, has a smooth bore and fires a load of shot or a single projectile known as a slug.
 
For me, the use of the term "weapon" is a remanant from my days in the Army. Like many things drilled into our heads in those days, like saying "Sir" and remembering our service numbers,...the term weapon just became a natural and totaly unconcious term for a firearm.

I remember a time when my Commanding Officer and Sergeant Major jumped in a jeep to check a position that had been hit a distance from our location. Being young and dumb, I went up to the jeep and asked, "Sir, could you use another weapon?" In that context I dehumanized myself to the point of just being a weapon, another piece of equipment.

I try to call firearms less dangerous sounding words, but some of it is so ingrained that it will never rub off.
 
When I took the NRA instructor course for basic pistol we were forbidden from using the term weapon in the classroom. If you said it you had to wear a big orange W around your neck and pay a small fine.

The NRA basic pistol course is supposed to be as accessible as possible to anyone and as safe/secure feeling as possible. To some people coming into the course the concept of a firearm as a weapon is too much for them to handle. Because I can't switch use of the W word on or off I have taken to not using all the time. I find it makes conversations with non-gunnies more productive as it helps them understand firearms as tools and inanimate objects and not the overloaded concept that is "weapon." They say weapon to me and I say firearm right back and subliminally I think it clicks.
 

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