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Stripped lower purchase out of state

Discussion in 'Connecticut Laws' started by Goohead, Jan 31, 2015.

  1. Goohead

    Goohead

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    Ok 2 questions:

    Is it legal to purchase a stripped lower reciever out of state as long as I build it into a featureless 22 rim fire rifle.

    Also if it is, what do I do after I build it. Does it require registration?
     
  2. BriMac

    BriMac Dealer

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    ATF changed the rules a few years ago on receivers, because they could be made into a pistol.

    1) An FFL may not sell a frame or receiver to anyone under 21 years of age [Title 18, U.S.C., section 922 (b)(1)]. Comment: This is because the receiver could, potentially, be made into a pistol.

    2) An FFL may not transfer a frame or receiver to an unlicensed person from another State. [Title 18, U.S.C. section 922(b)(3)]. Comment: Again, this tracks the rules regarding transfers of pistols, because some frames/receivers can be built into pistols.
     
  3. Goohead

    Goohead

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    Hmm what about complete lowers fully assembled with stock?
     
  4. Woda

    Woda

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    Goohead - I don't know what BriMac is referring too, but I believe your question is in regards to PA13-3... my interpretation and a 'horror story':

    - a stripped lower is not illegal until you turn it into an illegal firearm. In other words, you can build it up into a centerfire rifle WITHOUT a gas tube and its then just a fancy bolt action. Since its not semi auto its not an assault weapon. OR as you pointed out, make it into a 22 with as many evil features as you can fit on it, and its also not an Assault weapon since rimfire is not covered in the law.
    - Here's where it gets tricky: an FFL friend of mine in CT called DESPP to get a transaction number in order to make the transfer of a Ruger 10/22 receiver. The lady at DESPP wasn't sure if she could allow the transfer so she put him on hold for 15 minutes. When she got back on the line she said she could not allow the transfer and he would need to call back Monday and speak to a detective. Before he could call in Monday he received a call from said detective, who seemed to know close to nothing about firearms. My friend said it was like 20 questions... He explained that is was a Ruger 10/22 receiver (which the detective had never heard of) and could only fire 22 rimfire. In the end the detective said only complete firearms would be allowed to be transferred because they had no way of knowing if the receiver would be made into an illegal firearm. Long story short, the FFL attached a barrel, called DESPP and got the transfer number. So even if you find someone who will sell a receiver to you in CT, DESPP won't allow the transfer.

    Good luck maybe you will have better luck that the guy who just wanted a 10/22 receiver.
     
  5. EMitch

    EMitch

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    Woda, I thought 22lr were limited to one feature before becoming an "assault weapon"? If I remember correctlythey originally left them off, then corrected that with the first revision.

    Odd that they had issue with a 10/22 receiver. Legally speaking, the receiver IS the firearm.
     
  6. SVincent82

    SVincent82 NES Member

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    I believe BriMac is correct. The receiver can be purchased out of state but shipped to an FFL in your state for transfer. This satisfies the pistol requirement by the ATF in case the receiver is turned into a pistol. At that point, the "registration" will be the states record of the transfer.
     
  7. Woda

    Woda

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    The word on the street is DESPP is refusing to transfer anything other than complete firearms. In other words they won't even allow the transfer of a 1911 frame.
     
  8. dcmdon

    dcmdon NES Member

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    That is false. They can not refuse. Its not their option All they do is give an approval of the person, not the firearm. If the NiCS check comes back clean, they approve. Period. When I call into the nice ladies, I tell them if the person is a CT PP holder and if the firearm is a "handgun or non handgun". But I never specify if it was a frame or a long gun. I've only had a couple of waits. In one case I got an approval the next day. In another case, I heard nothing after 3 days. I did the transfer without an approval in full compliance with the law as well as my own sense of ethics because I knew the person.

    So to the OP, here are a couple of things.

    1) It is perfectly legal for you to buy an AR lower receiver IN CT. It is no different than a Remington 1100 receiver. Both of them are merely receivers. Both of them can be built into fully compliant firearms or illegal AWs. It is up to the buyer to comply with the law in how they build up their receiver.

    2) Stag is currently making and selling a CT compliant .22 LR AR15 that uses standard AR15 uppers, lowers, and I believe barrels.

    3) I was an FFL in CT until this summer. If I was still a FFL, I'd gladly sell you a lower. Its perfectly legal to buy, sell, or possess. You just can not build it into an AW.


    Regarding your last question about registration. No you do not "register" normal firearms in CT. They track transfers via DPS3 forms. That is in effect the registration. Prior to PA13-3 you could purchase long guns like an AR from non-licensees and no paperwork was required. You gave the guy money, he gave you the gun. In that case, the state would never know that you own the firearm. No registration would have ever been required, unless one of those privately acquired firearms was deemed an assault weapon by PA 13-3. In which case you would have had to have registered it by 12/13/13

    Don

    p.s. PM me. I can probably find you a dealer that will transfer you a lower. Again, there is nothing even grey about this. Its simply a receiver that can be built into a fully legal firearm (single shot .50 cal bolt action) or an illegal AW.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
  9. dcmdon

    dcmdon NES Member

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    ***********Holy crap****************

    Judge declares prohibition on dealers selling handguns to out of state customers unconstitutional!!!!


    http://www.ccrkba.org/?p=4702
     
  10. Woda

    Woda

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    Don - I have called and spoke with you in the past about the legality of certain things, I assure you the above story is fact and will provide you with the name of the FFL if you would like to verify. PM or Call me, I do not wish to put the FFL's name in a public forum.
     
  11. dcmdon

    dcmdon NES Member

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    Can you PM me the name of the FFL. I'd like to talk to him.
     
  12. Woda

    Woda

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    Don - Any news since we spoke Friday? I can't imagine the FFL I spoke to is the only one who has encountered this.
     
  13. dcmdon

    dcmdon NES Member

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    No. The guys I'm going to speak with were at the hunting and fishing show this weeked. I'll keep in touch.

    Don
     
  14. dcmdon

    dcmdon NES Member

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    I just heard back from the supervisor of the group that runs the NICS check and her response was emphatically NEGATIVE.

    If a government employee is straight and prompt in their response to me, I like to give them the courtesy of asking if they mind being directly quoted. I've asked her if I could cut and paste the email stream into this thread.

    But I will tell you that her name is Imisa Rivera and she was very emphatic that denying NICS checks on "other" firearms is NOT DESPP policy.

    Below is the actual email that I sent to her:

    Don

    From:
    Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 12:59 PM
    To:
    Subject: Questions on NICS Checks

    Dear Ms. Rivera,

    I was recently told by a friend that the DESPP is refusing to issue NICS approval numbers for the transfer of firearm frames or receivers. Since I no longer do business in CT, I have not had the opportunity to test this. I was hoping that you could shine some light on this question.

    Is the DESPP as a matter of policy refusing to issue NICS approval numbers for items that would be marked "Other" on a form DPS-3?

    I do have some interest in this, since I am a CT resident. I look forward to your hearing back from you.

    Best regards,

    Don
     
  15. dcmdon

    dcmdon NES Member

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    I heard back again from Ms. Rivera. She is fine with me posting the text of her email. There isn't much to text. She is quick and to the point.

    I have removed her email address to saver her from scouring spam bots. But if anyone wants her email, just PM me.

    Don

    p.s. Woda - if you want me to send you the actual emails, please PM me your email address. At the very least, your dealer friend now has an escalation point. All those nice ladies at the authorization line work for Ms. Rivera.


    Rivera, Imisa
    8:16 AM (2 hours ago)
    Reply
    to: me


    This is NOT correct. Yes we are issuing NICS numbers on receivers and frames.

    Imisa Rivera
     
  16. Woda

    Woda

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    Don - I will pass this on to my FFL friend so when he encounters it again he can name drop Ms. Rivera [smile]
     
  17. dcmdon

    dcmdon NES Member

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    Any updates?

    By the way. Rather than just drop the name, I'd suggest you print out the emails I sent you and bring them to the dealer.

    Don

    p.s. don't forget, if you have any trouble getting anyone to send a lower into CT (to a licensee), let me know. I'd be happy to do it.
     
  18. Woda

    Woda

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    No updates yet, I purchased a lower online and its on route to the FFL.
     
  19. Boris

    Boris Son of Kalashnikov NES Member

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    [pics]

    it would nice to **** ATF for a change
     
  20. dcmdon

    dcmdon NES Member

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    This has nothing to do with the ATF.

    It has to do with the criminals at the CT DESPP who have a history of prohibiting people from exercising their rights WITHIN the law.

    It seems like all the straight shooter Troopers either leaving, getting promoted, or are no longer with the SLFU.

    DAmato has replaced Shawn Musial. Who didn't always give me the answer i wanted, but at least gave me the courtesy of a reply.

    Damato will respond to an email with a phone call so that he does not leave a record of what he says.

    Don
     
  21. Woda

    Woda

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    Don - There has been a delay. Check your email for details.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2015
  22. dynotime

    dynotime

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    Don the only thing I came up with is that the Lower cannot have AR-15 stamped on it. As AR-15 is not allowed period.
    So you need to purchase a lower that does not have AR-15 on it. Like an Anderson or a New Frontier or any lower that is not marked as AR-15. If I was making lowers for CT I would label them as CTC-OTHER
    CTC stands for Connecticut Compliant-OTHER so CTC-OTHER Still would this be a Copy of? not sure
     
  23. dynotime

    dynotime

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    WADA any word I know this has been a long time.
     

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