my friend is an leo, and can legally buy glock's...i have a class a ltc, with NO restrictions...would it be a straw purchase if he bought a glock, and sold it to me? is there an mgl that someone could point me to?
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straw purchase?
- Thread starter dimsum414
- Start date
That would be fine. It's considered a transfer between two licensed individuals. A straw purchase is when a licensed individual buys for an unlicensed individual. It's no different if I decide to buy a gun, go shoot it, realize I don't like it, and sell it to someone who holds an LTC. It's perfectly legal.
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that would be fine, as in not a straw purchase?
Right.
It doesn't matter. As long as it appears on the list and is available to LEO's, an LEO can sell you his firearm so long as your licensed. He can't transfer over the magazines though, because they may not be pre-ban...but the firearm itself can be 3rd Gen.
sweet...thanks, you rock..i don't care what anyone else says about you![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
They are just angry because I always feed misinformation to noob's....
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
jk
This isn't covered in MGL at all, but in federal law.
And to directly answer your question, yes, it would be a straw purchase, at least given what you've stated here.
Now, on the other hand, if said LEO bought this gun for his own use, and then
decided later on to sell it to you for whatever reason, that would be legal,
assuming both parties have an LTC-A and file the FA-10, etc.
Buying a gun from an FFL expressly on the behalf of another person, though,
is definitely illegal, with a few extremely limited exceptions. (eg, like buying
guns as a gift, etc... )
-Mike
Its confusing and I dont fault Fsorrent at all, but if your LEO friend purchases a firearm for you that you could not otherwise obtain its a straw purchase.
Heres an older thread with more substance to it including law quotes and various points of view on the subject: http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30597&highlight=straw
Heres an older thread with more substance to it including law quotes and various points of view on the subject: http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30597&highlight=straw
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Right you are Ken....Right you are. Good twist on the situation. As Grant said, it's semi-retarded. If he buys it for him, and sells it to you that's fine...but If he buys it for you then it's a straw purchase. When you figure out how to distinguish the two let me know. To make this right, I would wait awhile after your friend purchase his handgun before he decides to sell it because it's just not the right fit for him...
Sorry, but this is wrong.
You can still have a straw purchase even if both persons are licensed or
not legally prohibited from purchasing a firearm. Period. This is hard to
accept, but it's Federal law. (If you don't believe me, look up the Michael
Lara case. )
It is VERY different because the intent is different. If you buy a gun expressly for the purpose of selling it to someone else, that's more than likely
considered a straw.
-Mike
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Please don't use the belt
Hence, why his friend should wait awhile before making a transfer.
Or should just not post the INTENT on a public forum.
Exactly. Straw purchases are all about intent. If your intent at the time of purchasing the gun is to give/sell/transfer it to somebody else, it is a straw purchase (with the gift exception, etc already mentioned). Doesn't matter if the person is able to own the gun or not, doesn't matter if you wait three years to do the transfer or not. It's simply about intent. If you ever got dragged into court on the matter, this intent is what the case would revolve around.
See this thread..... lots of stuff in here about "straws". There likely have
been other threads where the horse has been flogged a bit, too.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=32676
Part of the problem with straws is there is a lot of grey area as to what
does or does not constitute a straw. The most prudent idea is to have
a situation where there is no outward appearance of anything looking like
a straw.
-Mike
Straws in their very nature are thin, hollow, and open-ended. So I guess the term "straw purchase" is fitting
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
This looks like a straw, so now that you know, have the mods delete this thread FOREVER PERMANENTLY, as it is evidence that there are straws in attendance and could be used in a court of law. Just make sure you get some extra straws at McD's before they haul you in for questioning. Best thing to do in this situation in hindsight is to email or PM someone and ask, rather than putting it on an open forum. We all know you have no intentions of being illegal, or assume so, but the law is the law and it sucks sometimes. Your LEO buddy would get in trouble too, so ya'll gotta be careful you don't do something really not cool and end up on the other side of the fence, so to speak...
Good luck and I hope you get the pistol you want some day!
Good luck and I hope you get the pistol you want some day!
wow..i didn't think i could conjure up so much debate...there is no intent of anything, we were talking guns and buying them the other night, and no one there knew the answer to the straw purchase question...i figured someone here would...
The reason it's a touchy subject to post on is because intent is, obviously, a thing known only to yourself. So the only way to show intent is to collect circumstantial evidence of that intent. And postings on public forums asking questions about straw purchases are the kind of evidence a prosecutor would dearly love to get their hands on.
So the basic advice now is, since you've made the post, be double careful if you get yourself into a situation that could look like a straw purchase to somebody who becomes interested in you for some reason.
Dont mean to be rude to you, but I dont believe you. You asked specific questions in regards to avoiding the appearance of a straw purchase, then modified that inquiry further in regard to a newer glock model of which you are obviously aware of the difficulties in acquiring.
I don't think deleting it really accomplishes anything. The guy was just asking a question- not saying that he actually was intending to violate the law. I would also posit that, if he was sure of the legality status of such a purchase, he wouldn't have asked the question to begin with. Maybe he heard from someone else that it wasn't legal, but just wanted to be sure.
-Mike
I agree. MA laws are confusing enough, give a guy a break.
Slightly off topic but Glock requires forms to be submitted stating the firearm is being purchased for duty use and not for resale. What the outcome if resold would be is unknown, nor am I aware of a time frame required for the firearm to remain in the LE officer's possession prior to sale. However if turned over in a very short time Glock may have a problem if it were brought to their attention. Make no mistake about it, dealers aren't necessarily happy with any of the LE purchase programs and would not hesitate to complain if they were abused.
While that's great that may or may not actually be relevant here. A LEO in MA can go to a dealer and just buy a glock without using that program, if they so desire, and then they won't have to deal with any contract agreement business. They could get one off Gunbroker, order one from wherever and have it transferred in, etc. Granted, you save a bit of cash by using that program, but if I was a LEO buying a Glock that I wasn't 110% sure I would like or not, I would buy it outside of the program- which would give someone the leeway to sell the thing quickly if they didn't like it, without violating any contract.
-Mike
How do the laws on straw purchases apply to purchasing for collecting/investment reasons?
For instance, say I found a preban Colt AR-15 for 600, or I know a pending law is going to change supply or demand for a certain firearm. Can I purchase the firearm with the intent to let the value appreciate and resell for a profit?
In this scenario there is no intent to sell to a specific individual, just to put the firearm back on the general market. Nor is this a business or something that's going to be replicated.
In other words, is a straw purchase created by the intent to resell, or the intent to resell to a specific individual?
For instance, say I found a preban Colt AR-15 for 600, or I know a pending law is going to change supply or demand for a certain firearm. Can I purchase the firearm with the intent to let the value appreciate and resell for a profit?
In this scenario there is no intent to sell to a specific individual, just to put the firearm back on the general market. Nor is this a business or something that's going to be replicated.
In other words, is a straw purchase created by the intent to resell, or the intent to resell to a specific individual?
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
You'd be surprised by what can turn into a hot debate. Somethings the littlest thing can spark it. They are very unpredictable.True. No one is forced to use the manufacturer's program. But the down side is the LE pricing on most standard Glocks are $420 give or take a few dollars. Dealers are going to charge substantially more. Dealers won't meet the LE pricing unless they want to make next to nothing on the sale.
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