SP at Logan with MP5 Submachine Guns!

You know what might deter crime/terrorism even more than magnetized mall cops dragged through a soldier of fortune magazine (credit to Timber for that reference)?

Terrorists knowing there was a gun behind every soccer mom and dad in America...

I'm growing tired of hearing apologists in the media describe a situation in which evidently no war is winnable. Evidently, you cannot ever win a war despite the past 5000 years of history demonstrating otherwise...

What you cannot do is irritate your enemy into permanent submission by snubbing them at diplomatic galas...

Evidently, we've learned nothing from Korea, Vietnam, Iraq I/II and now Afghanistan.

You cannot change a people's government without imposing your own (i.e. "conquering" them) You can REMOVE their government, but unless you impose your rule, you have to be satisfied with whatever they choose to replace what you removed (which is why we should hesitate to do this).

As we seem to have forgotten here, you cannot be given freedom or democracy. Each generation must EARN it. That can be a peaceful process, but whatever it might be, it is not an entitlement and cannot be accomplished from the outside...
 
girlfriend was at airport in Amsterdam few months ago with her family. she was having fun picking out the different types of SMG's and pistols on the airport cops and pointing out their different features to her freaked out mother [laugh]
 
Bill Nance said:
The cop with the MP5SD isn't exactly the picture most of us had when we grew up picturing the friendly neighborhood cop.
Click to expand...

Any idea why they would purchase the MP5SD?

I haven't seen the MP5 at Logan myself, just the ARs, but do they really have the suppressed version? Seems like the wrong version for such an application. Unless they're thinking they can take out a bad guy and not disrupt the food court at the same time.
 
Another_David said:
Any idea why they would purchase the MP5SD?

I haven't seen the MP5 at Logan myself, just the ARs, but do they really have the suppressed version? Seems like the wrong version for such an application. Unless they're thinking they can take out a bad guy and not disrupt the food court at the same time.
Click to expand...
IIRC, they were looking to reduce the chance of hearing damage for the troopers. Gunshots indoors are loud.
 
M1911 said:
IIRC, they were looking to reduce the chance of hearing damage for the troopers. Gunshots indoors are loud.
Click to expand...

Seriously? Wouldn't the sub-sonic ammo 9 mm be underpowered?

I like shooting 9 mm because it's cheap and for me I think the hydrashocks will get the job done for self defense but for a tactical response team I'd think you'd want something beefier than 9 mm sub sonics.
 
Another_David said:
Seriously? Wouldn't the sub-sonic ammo 9 mm be underpowered?

I like shooting 9 mm because it's cheap and for me I think the hydrashocks will get the job done for self defense but for a tactical response team I'd think you'd want something beefier than 9 mm sub sonics.
Click to expand...

The MP5SD is different. It's designed to be used with full power ammo. The bullets may be sub sonic by the time they get out, though... depending on the loading used. Even supersonic 9mm suppressed is still way quieter
than the same un-suppressed.

-Mike
 
DukeNukem said:
Cekim ...Are you calling MSP Troopers this ? , wtf do YOU do for a living, whats your level of training?
Click to expand...
I'm not calling "MSP Troopers" anything. I am pointing out that we could do more to prevent crime and terrorism with an armed and vigilant civilian population than we will with police officers dressed as if they are jumping out of a helicopter in Afghanistan...

Over the years, we've tried to create the illusion of superman LEOs who can "stop crime." As we continually traded our own rights to protect ourselves, particularly the urban population demanded the appearance of ever more capable law enforcement (i.e. if I can't protect myself, then the guys who are supposed to do it, need to be better, or at least look the part[thinking]).

After 9/11 this meant dressing them up to look like soldiers rather than police officers.

I honestly have no issue with LEOs carrying MP5s any more than I have an issue with civilians owning and carrying them. It's just a tool.

That said, in the final analysis, I suspect it will never be more than a cosmetic gesture and, as I mentioned, it would be more effective to have the expectation of would-be terrorists that they are going to face not only Law Enforcement resistance to their attempt, but civilian as well...

If, as now, they know that they will face nothing more than 100's of un-armed sheeple queued up in a security line and a hand-full of well armed LEOs, then they have a very nice soft target ready to go...

The well armed and dressed LEOs will likely get to use their gear to pick up the pieces...
 
+1 I love hearing desk jockeys talk about how hard they are, and how we are such an oppressed population when they dont stand up to protect their freedoms.
 
P2A said:
+1 I love hearing desk jockeys talk about how hard they are, and how we are such an oppressed population when they dont stand up to protect their freedoms.
Click to expand...
Gee, I haven't seen you involved in a coup attempt on DC (or MA) either... [wink]

I happen to think that more can and must be done in the political arena right now - which is why I am doing it...

Not sure where you got any of that BS about "how hard" I am from my posts? I said nothing of the sort. I just have a realistic (and experienced) view of what Law Enforcement can (or can't) really do to protect us and take a dim view of making it appear otherwise with "tacticool" gear...
 
cekim said:
Gee, I haven't seen you involved in a coup attempt on DC (or MA) either... [wink]

I happen to think that more can and must be done in the political arena right now - which is why I am doing it...

Not sure where you got any of that BS about "how hard" I am from my posts? I said nothing of the sort. I just have a realistic (and experienced) view of what Law Enforcement can (or can't) really do to protect us and take a dim view of making it appear otherwise with "tacticool" gear...
Click to expand...

Ive been busy in the Middle East with this group of guys that call them selves " Al Qaida". So a bunch of civilians can complain about how horrible America is. And those at home that police our great country. Without having a commerical airplane flown into them. Those that are so greatly out of touch with the threat, and what is being done about it. The stuff that isnt on CNN daily. But to say that the police shouldnt be equipped with uparmored SWAT vehicles, SMGs, thermals etc. Should look at whats gone on world wide in the past 50 years, the lessons learned and what will come in the future.
 
P2A said:
Ive been busy in the Middle East with this group of guys that call them selves " Al Qaida".
Click to expand...
Excuses, excuses... [laugh] (kidding...)

P2A said:
So a bunch of civilians can complain about how horrible America is.
Click to expand...
I love this country and think its the best one on the planet, which is why I don't want to see it devolve into a socialist nanny-state where we are forcibly disarmed...

So, you are saying you are going to be thrilled to return to MA and move to an LTC-B town and told you cannot touch a machine gun without a license that your CLEO may or may not issue?

P2A said:
Should look at whats gone on world wide in the past 50 years, the lessons learned and what will come in the future.
Click to expand...
I'm looking, which is was exactly my point. We aren't learning from those lessons. We are tolerating ever more BS domestically while we allow not only terrorists, but socialists to dictate the limits of our freedom at home.
 
This is old news. A good friend of mine that was an assistant DA in Suffolk County (Boston) told me how heavily armed the SP was at Logan over 20 years ago. Some of the officers carried so much ordinance in their cars that they required a special parking space (guarded) when they made a court appearance. As far as I am concerned this is both good and necessary. The squids that complain about such armament generally don't know how to use it.
 
For what it's worth, I've been to Logan many times post-9/11, and have never seen (or heard about) anyone with MP-5's.

P-14 said:
The MP5s had 30-round banana mags doubled up on each with a mag doubler.
Click to expand...

IMO that's not a good idea, but I don't carry a long gun for employment or recreation, so maybe bent feed lips aren't that big of a deal.

Bill Nance said:
I agree, it's a little disturbing when you first see something like that. Most people are used to seeing a cop on the beat in non-military type uniforms wearing only a sidearm and with perhaps a shotgun in a dash-mount in the car. The cop with the MP5SD isn't exactly the picture most of us had when we grew up picturing the friendly neighborhood cop.
Click to expand...

I find this statement interesting. Don't we gun owners get upset as all hell when people freak out over how a gun looks? Isn't it true that the cartridge fired by grandaddy's blue steel and brown wood .30-06 is much more powerful than a tacticool AR? If Doobie open carried an MP-5 at a "protest" (ugh...I shudder calling it that), how would we percieve him? Why is a silencer scary, or the cyclic rate cause for concern? I don't like the idea of a police state any more than any other freedom loving American, but I find it striking how quickly we can change our positions WRT guns.

I'm not trying to single you out either, just using that to address the crowd.

cekim said:
You know what might deter crime/terrorism even more than magnetized mall cops dragged through a soldier of fortune magazine (credit to Timber for that reference)?

Terrorists knowing there was a gun behind every soccer mom and dad in America...
Click to expand...

I think I know what you're saying, but that's how Israel is, and that doesn't deter suicidal attackers with an agenda. It does make them more prepared though. I'd say the bigger issue is that we're forcing thousands of people to show up completely unarmed every day at the same location.

M1911 said:
IIRC, they were looking to reduce the chance of hearing damage for the troopers. Gunshots indoors are loud.
Click to expand...

Especially on full auto.

cekim said:
So, you are saying you are going to be thrilled to return to MA and move to an LTC-B town and told you cannot touch a machine gun without a license that your CLEO may or may not issue?
Click to expand...

Ouch [laugh]
 
GSG said:
I think I know what you're saying, but that's how Israel is, and that doesn't deter suicidal attackers with an agenda. It does make them more prepared though. I'd say the bigger issue is that we're forcing thousands of people to show up completely unarmed every day at the same location.
Click to expand...
Given their proximity, I'd say they are doing an amazing job...
 
P2A said:
Ive been busy in the Middle East with this group of guys that call them selves " Al Qaida". So a bunch of civilians can complain about how horrible America is.
Click to expand...
Al Qaeda has never threatened my freedom of speech.

Now, if you said you'd taken down McCain/Feingold, I'd be buying you a beer....

Terrorists aren't a threat to our freedoms, American politicians are.
 
Another_David said:
Seriously? Wouldn't the sub-sonic ammo 9 mm be underpowered?

I like shooting 9 mm because it's cheap and for me I think the hydrashocks will get the job done for self defense but for a tactical response team I'd think you'd want something beefier than 9 mm sub sonics.
Click to expand...
Who says they are using subsonic ammo? Suppressors significantly reduce the report even from supersonic ammunition. And there are proponents of 147gr 9mm.
 
The magazines, where they held together with blue tape or red tape? If my memory serves me correctly, the blue tape means they're blanks, so nothing to worry about.
 
Also I believe they are Silenced so as to not create a panic if they were to use them .. Imagine the full sound of gun fire in Logan on a Saturday morning at 11am ... More people would be trampled to death than shot
 
KBCraig said:
Al Qaeda has never threatened my freedom of speech.

Now, if you said you'd taken down McCain/Feingold, I'd be buying you a beer....

Terrorists aren't a threat to our freedoms, American politicians are.
Click to expand...

I think you forgot on 9/11 they took away 2,973 American's freedoms, permanently. Forget that? But to say that politicians are terrorists? I think your drifting far from reality. But to go as far to say you hope someone would assassinate our elected leaders? I think you have deeper issues, and should seek help. McCain is far more of a patriot then you will ever be, and has sacrificed so you can sit on your PC and bitch about America. Get with reality, and take your tinfoil off.
 
P2A said:
I think you forgot on 9/11 they took away 2,973 American's freedoms, permanently. Forget that?
Click to expand...
And by 9/12 the wheels were turning to to take away 300 million American's freedoms.


But to say that politicians are terrorists? I think your drifting far from reality.
Click to expand...
I said no such thing. I said they are a threat to our freedoms, and if you can't recognize that, you're nowhere near reality. The founding fathers themselves warned of it, but too many Americans have forgotten that advice.


But to go as far to say you hope someone would assassinate our elected leaders?
Click to expand...
Reading comprehension, much? Nobody, especially me, suggested assassination. While you were busy overseas, McCain-Feingold was a law that actually outlawed free speech right here at home. Thankfully SCOTUS just overturned it in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission.

McCain is far more of a patriot then you will ever be, and has sacrificed so you can sit on your PC and bitch about America. Get with reality, and take your tinfoil off.
Click to expand...
I cannot call any man a patriot who violates his oath to the Constitution by championing blatantly unconstitutional legislation to outlaw freedom of speech. That's not tinfoil hat stuff, that's not a secret conspiracy, he did it right out in the open with the help of people who will forgive anything because he was a POW.
 
P2A said:
I think you forgot on 9/11 they took away 2,973 American's freedoms, permanently. Forget that? But to say that politicians are terrorists?
Click to expand...

Reading comprehension fail. He was talking about the McCain/Feingold campaign reform crap which significantly limits free speech, not "assasinating a politician".

Further, while 2,973 paid the ultimate price that day, (Not to mention, the thousands of people who have fought and died for us overseas) the rest of America (millions of people) will also be paying for the knee jerk reactions of our government, for the rest of our lives. It's not something to be taken lightly either way. I don't fear the jihadists either. I know that true blooded americans can kill them easily. That isn't the problem. I fear the actions of my government in response to that threat. In the long run the government and politicians who make these decisions ARE actually more dangerous- they enable the jihadists by making half assed decisions and compromising America's value system and freedoms in the process. Without that system, without that reason for existence... without the worship of individual freedom- we are nothing. If the government destroys the core of the nation through rampant authoritarian socialist policy then what will we become, functionally.... a crappy version of europe?

There is no "Tinfoil" about it. The political structure, BS, and corruption in this country puts us all at risk. We have to remove these a**h***s from office... otherwise everyone will suffer, whether it's someone being harassed by a TSA thug in an airport terminal or someone in our armed forces shooting at jihadists in Afganistan... crappy government IS a threat.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Reading comprehension fail. He was talking about the McCain/Feingold campaign reform crap which significantly limits free speech, not "assasinating a politician".

Further, while 2,973 paid the ultimate price that day, (Not to mention, the thousands of people who have fought and died for us overseas) the rest of America (millions of people) will also be paying for the knee jerk reactions of our government, for the rest of our lives. It's not something to be taken lightly either way. I don't fear the jihadists either. I know that true blooded americans can kill them easily. That isn't the problem. I fear the actions of my government in response to that threat. In the long run the government and politicians who make these decisions ARE actually more dangerous- they enable the jihadists by making half assed decisions and compromising America's value system and freedoms in the process. Without that system, without that reason for existence... without the worship of individual freedom- we are nothing. If the government destroys the core of the nation through rampant authoritarian socialist policy then what will we become, functionally.... a crappy version of europe?

There is no "Tinfoil" about it. The political structure, BS, and corruption in this country puts us all at risk. We have to remove these a**h***s from office... otherwise everyone will suffer, whether it's someone being harassed by a TSA thug in an airport terminal or someone in our armed forces shooting at jihadists in Afganistan... crappy government IS a threat.

-Mike
Click to expand...

Well said, +1
 
M1911 said:
Who says they are using subsonic ammo? Suppressors significantly reduce the report even from supersonic ammunition. And there are proponents of 147gr 9mm.
Click to expand...

The MP5SD really isn't designed to be used with typical 147 gr ammo. The way the gun is designed the integral suppressor sucks off a bit (actually, make that a LOT) of velocity in the process. (Part of this is why the integral can on those things are so effective... ) Typical l147 gr ammo can even cause
function problems in that particular gun. .

-Mike
 

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