Some thoughts on Obama, ammo, gun control, ban....

[Preachers Sheets]

I'm sure the whole topic of the ban has been beaten to death. Just wondering how things will go because there are so many Democrats.

I'm not really big into politics but now owning a few firearm's makes me wonder.

Obama is a Democrat, there seems to be more Democrats than republicans these days. Does that give Obama freedom to pass any b.s. law (regarding guns) that he wants? Yea I know we have the 2nd ammendment on our side but do you really think it will save us?

In my eyes, worst case is a new (and more strict) assualt weapons ban is put into place, ammo is taxed 500% and there are all kinds of restrictions. Obama wouldnt ban guns but he would make it so you can never find ammo (like now), if you do it would be well over 1.00 a round and you wouldnt be able to purchase most of the firearms you would like to.

I dont know, I got into the world of firearms because I always wanted to and also because of what I hear about Obama but I was as worried about buying my guns in time as well as the long haul and things to come. I would like to be able to enjoy the hobby and not go broke and grow old just simply trying to find ammo.

This ammo shortage/increased price seems like it's here to stay. All of these factories are making a ton of ammo, yes, people are scooping it all up but you would think these factories would be able to supply the demand. Seems like something else is going on with this ammo shortage......something doesnt seem right.

Is this what people were feeling when Clinton put the last ban in effect, I'm 27 now and I lived in Boston....in MA so I always knew I wasnt even allowed to even think of guns. If Obama put another ban into place similar to what Clinton did last time should I even care, arent we still following alot of those rules anyhow? The sneakiness with the ammo is a kick in the balls I tell you. Thats enough of me thinking outloud.

I'm not posting this to see people fly off the handle and get this thread locked, I just want to shoot the breeze and know what others think and if people share the same thoughts/fears as me.

 

[Yelena]

It will happen if we will let it happen.

 

[P-14]

It will happen if we will let it happen.

+1, Yelena, including your signature that is very appropriate for your response.

 

[fubar]

..... In my eyes, worst case is a new (and more strict) assualt weapons ban ..... .

Worst case ? How about registration followed by confiscation followed by a 60% federal income tax and the suspension of the 1st amendment ?

 

[cekim]

Obama is a Democrat, there seems to be more Democrats than republicans these days. Does that give Obama freedom to pass any b.s. law (regarding guns) that he wants? Yea I know we have the 2nd ammendment on our side but do you really think it will save us?

This is precisely why we were founded as a "Republic" and not a "Democracy"...

Has the Democracy failed? Good question. By many of the thresholds set out by the founders, it failed when the Federal Reserve was created (in effect we "voted in" the destruction of 3 balanced branches of government and anointed a new king (the Chairman of the Reserve) with the power to destroy/confiscate our wealth at will...

If the Democrats keep the current pace, we may see this question answered sooner rather than later...

I think the issue is far bigger than 2A. 2A is just the last line of many in the sand that have been crossed in rapid succession since last summer (and yes that means that some of those lines got crossed by a supposedly Republican administration - there is little to distinguish them at this point).

I think many of us share your fears. We hold these principles of limited government because we see from history that if given an inch, they take your life... It seems benign at first, even helpful to many as they "prop up" the economy and "fix problems", but the problem is that it inevitably descends into "who gets helped and who gets hurt", because you can't "rob from the rich and give to the poor" for very long before there are no more rich to rob...

The answer is as Yelana put it - it WILL happen if we let it happen. I don't think its too late, but its getting close...

 

[Preachers Sheets]

Fubar, I understand what your saying. I was talking about a very specific situation. If guns arent banned and they beat around the bush, how badly could they bust our chops.

Honestly guys, I cant wait to vote in the next election. Hopefully Obama doesnt get a second term. I have a feeling he will prolong this gun issue along with a few other issues to ensure he gets a second term while giving people the feeling of what is to come. If he gets his second term all bets are off, he'll be in office for the 4 year term and he knows he wont be coming back, thats when things will get really hairy.

If he feels he wont get back in for a second term he'll probably do the same thing.....try to leave his "legacy" and screw everything up. His view (in my eyes, alot of people like him) are so twisted, liberal, atheist and at times I feel; against personal freedom. Ugh.

Cekim - Honestly, what can we really do? Protest and threaten to not re-elect local politicians? Sometimes I get the feeling that they only thing you can do is cast your vote and if the election doesn’t work out and people are elected who hold the same interests as you, your screwed until the next election comes around.

 

[JGreen]

This ammo shortage/increased price seems like it's here to stay. All of these factories are making a ton of ammo, yes, people are scooping it all up but you would think these factories would be able to supply the demand. Seems like something else is going on with this ammo shortage......something doesnt seem right.

.

Ammo is not being scooped up or hoarded. Think about it....We are the people that would hoard it if it was available. I am a dealer (FFL), my distributors are not geting much ammo in from the factories. Ammo being manufactured but not being delivered to the distributors can mean only one thing; government contracts! I have also heard that raw materials are in short supply. I do see a light at the end of the tunnel though!

 

[Walther]

I am all for banning Obama, good gun control (2 hands) and plenty of ammo.
I don't know what to expect but it seems to me that there are a lot more people watching these days.

 

[cekim]

Cekim - Honestly, what can we really do? Protest and threaten to not re-elect local politicians? Sometimes I get the feeling that they only thing you can do is cast your vote and if the election doesn’t work out and people are elected who hold the same interests as you, your screwed until the next election comes around.

Go pester your representatives...

Find out what they think and plan on doing... Make them justify this to you, in writing or otherwise... (that's not an easy process I think you will find)

Most of us have done very little in the way of telling them how we feel and what we want done. The "squeaky wheel" for a long time has been the socialist liberal mentality that wants government to "make it all better".

They've heard from them, they now need to hear from us...

I'm not saying it will be all sweetness and light, but that's step 1...

Step 2 is doing something about the unopposed elections in this state - they are a travesty and an "Obamanation" to Democratic elections. Volunteer, collect signatures, find out whose running. If you can run - heck, why not...

 

[ryan81986]

Make them justify this to you, in writing or otherwise... (that's not an easy process I think you will find)

Especially if you are writing to fatso or horse face.

 

[Dr_Scholl]

Why would Obama try to increase the price of ammo? We've done that for him with this ridiculous panic buying. We're going to price ourselves out of shooting at the rate we're going.

 

[cekim]

Why would Obama try to increase the price of ammo? We've done that for him with this ridiculous panic buying. We're going to price ourselves out of shooting at the rate we're going.

Nah, if it keeps up, production will increase to meet demand.

More likely, we'll hit a saturation point and it will level off...

Assuming no new regulations...

That's how free markets work - you remember free markets right?

Why would the Obamanation want to increase ammo prices?

1. Lead boogey man - all lead is bad no matter where it is, lead should be banned and stripped form the earth and hurled towards the sun

2. Bullet tracking - they want to serialize all bullets so that they can pull them from a dead body and find that:
a. They have a bullet that has no serial number because it was home-made or made by/for/on the black market
b. They have a bullet that was stolen...

3. Bullet effectiveness... They want only the police and military to have bullets that work, so they could require bullet compositions that ensure this...

I have no ill will for my fellow binge buyers. They are patriots who are peacefully informing the government of its limitations imposed by the Constitution... More power to them - go out and buy a box of ammo for America

 

[Dr_Scholl]

Nah, if it keeps up, production will increase to meet demand.

More likely, we'll hit a saturation point and it will level off...

Assuming no new regulations...

That's how free markets work - you remember free markets right?

Why would the Obamanation want to increase ammo prices?

1. Lead boogey man - all lead is bad no matter where it is, lead should be banned and stripped form the earth and hurled towards the sun

2. Bullet tracking - they want to serialize all bullets so that they can pull them from a dead body and find that:
a. They have a bullet that has no serial number because it was home-made or made by/for/on the black market
b. They have a bullet that was stolen...

3. Bullet effectiveness... They want only the police and military to have bullets that work, so they could require bullet compositions that ensure this...

I have no ill will for my fellow binge buyers. They are patriots who are peacefully informing the government of its limitations imposed by the Constitution... More power to them - go out and buy a box of ammo for America

I would if I could find some.

I'm not worried about any new gun laws passing, and haven't been. I predicted months before the election that this (current gun control climate) would happen. We've got them by the balls for at least the next 3-4 years, and probably for a lot longer. The American people have shifted largely for gun rights over the past decade.

 

[cekim]

The American people have shifted largely for gun rights over the past decade.

I am hopeful that you are correct, but particularly the states that now dominate politics have moved quite far the other way...

Openly espousing socialist, fascist and communist ideologies and all the anti-gun oppression that goes with them...

As other parts of the nation are "waking up", places like NY, MA, CA, IL, etc... are moving backwards at a rapid rate... Seemingly trying to stock up on "pre-incorporation" laws.

"This is a high-capacity assault-bill. It assaults multiple civil rights with one pull of the pen. It has a fact-hider, collapsible stock and a conspicuously protruding handle. It is Constitutional so long as it was passed prior to the 2009 incorporation finding"

We can only hope that such jokes will be available to us soon...

 

[Kalahari]

Several dozen Democrats have come out and said that Obama better not push any gun legislation or it will backfire.

I'm honestly not all that worried. He's way too occupied with the economy, health care, and, oh yeah, those two wars going on on the other side of the world.

I don't honestly think we'll see any major new gun control legislation (the likes of the AWB, at least) this presidential term. Even Obama doesn't have the political capital to do that.

The one thing I would keep my eye on is CIFTA...I haven't been following it lately, but it could do some damage if Congress signs it.

 

[jds1971]

Several dozen Democrats have come out and said that Obama better not push any gun legislation or it will backfire.

I'm honestly not all that worried. He's way too occupied with the economy, health care, and, oh yeah, those two wars going on on the other side of the world.

I don't honestly think we'll see any major new gun control legislation (the likes of the AWB, at least) this presidential term. Even Obama doesn't have the political capital to do that.

The one thing I would keep my eye on is CIFTA...I haven't been following it lately, but it could do some damage if Congress signs it.

I think you're right. No matter what he may personally think, gun control is a losing issue for Obama (at least right now) and the Democratic party as a whole (on a national level) and I think they know it. They like having control of the presidency and congress and that is only possible if they can get Democrats elected in traditionally Republican districts (so-called "Blue Dog" Democrats). Those people can't get elected with an endorsement from the Brady Organization.

This battle is going to be fought state by state in my opinion (which considering I live in Mass is bad news).

I am way more worried about Patrick. He can propose new gun control laws (as he just did) and he can get them passed in this state without the political damage Obama has to worry about.

A newbie's 2 cents.

 

[drgrant]

This ammo shortage/increased price seems like it's here to stay. All of these factories are making a ton of ammo, yes, people are scooping it all up but you would think these factories would be able to supply the demand. Seems like something else is going on with this ammo shortage......something doesnt seem right.

You haven't been paying much attention to the market, I take it. Things are (slowly) getting better. Stuff that was unobtainium a month ago is starting to appear again. AR/EBR rifle prices are receding back to "Pre Obama" levels. It's not a conspiracy... It's simple supply and demand economics. You create a few million new gun owners, well, they need ammo from somewhere... not to mention a lot of old gun owners that the election has caused to re-emerge from the rock they've been living under.

FWIW I think Obama is a threat but I think most of the tinfoil out there likely better put to use preserving food. I'm not buying into the "tinfoil email forward network's" predictions of "all guns being banned tomorrow" and " 500% ammo tax" etc. Right now most gun control agendas he has are pretty much politically marginalized. This all could change in the future, though, if we don't keep pouring on the pressure via the NRA and other avenues nationally and sometimes locally.

-Mike

 

[calsdad]

You haven't been paying much attention to the market, I take it. Things are (slowly) getting better. Stuff that was unobtainium a month ago is starting to appear again. AR/EBR rifle prices are receding back to "Pre Obama" levels. It's not a conspiracy... It's simple supply and demand economics. You create a few million new gun owners, well, they need ammo from somewhere... not to mention a lot of old gun owners that the election has caused to re-emerge from the rock they've been living under.

FWIW I think Obama is a threat but I think most of the tinfoil out there likely better put to use preserving food. I'm not buying into the "tinfoil email forward network's" predictions of "all guns being banned tomorrow" and " 500% ammo tax" etc. Right now most gun control agendas he has are pretty much politically marginalized. This all could change in the future, though, if we don't keep pouring on the pressure via the NRA and other avenues nationally and sometimes locally.

-Mike

Exactly. With so many new gun owners coming in and existing gun owners waking up there were bound to be shortages. And a good part of the reason the gun control agendas are being marginalized - is that it has become exceedingly apparent that gun owners - and want to be owners - are willing to put their money where their mouths are and pony up and spend a lot of money on something they believe in.

Why would Obama try to increase the price of ammo? We've done that for him with this ridiculous panic buying. We're going to price ourselves out of shooting at the rate we're going.

That "ridiculous panic buying" you are bitching about has done more to shove the "we don't want your freaking gun control" back into the faces of all the gun grabbers than any effort by GOA or the NRA could ever do.

The liberals are whining about how the NRA has "taken over Congress" - but I don't see it. If anything the NRA has been overtaken by the average American gun owner putting his money where his beliefs are.

Where and how people spend their money speaks much louder than any advocacy group could ever do. The liberals can always use the NRA as a boogeyman. When MILLIONS of Americans go out and spend sizeable sums of money on buying guns and ammo they are sending a very clear message that the liberals find very hard to counter.

They can try and demonize millions of Americans at their peril. Because every time they do so - they turn people away from supporting them. When a single mother buys a pistol because she feels she has to protect herself, spends a good chunk of change doing so, spends what little free time she has attending classes and learning how to shoot - and then has to listen to Democrats tell her that she is a "redneck" or a "hater" or "crazy" or any of the other crap that has been slung at people buying guns - there has to be at least a little bit of "f*** you Democrats" that happens there in response.

I have been saying it all along and I will keep saying it: Let the "panic" buying continue until the attitudes improve.

It has been the best thing that has happened for the anti gun control effort in a long time.

 

[fubar]

Once I got over my conspiracy paranoia I started thinking of the " Buying Panic " as the "Other Tea Party"

But I want you guys to stop buying My Ammo : .223 , 45 , 9mm. Okay ?

 

[pernox]

*snip*
Honestly guys, I cant wait to vote in the next election. Hopefully Obama doesnt get a second term. I have a feeling he will prolong this gun issue along with a few other issues to ensure he gets a second term while giving people the feeling of what is to come. If he gets his second term all bets are off, he'll be in office for the 4 year term and he knows he wont be coming back, thats when things will get really hairy.

*snip*

Cekim - Honestly, what can we really do? Protest and threaten to not re-elect local politicians? Sometimes I get the feeling that they only thing you can do is cast your vote and if the election doesn’t work out and people are elected who hold the same interests as you, your screwed until the next election comes around.

"The Pen" is the peaceful place to start. I have never been a politically minded individual, and am recently converted from the "what does my one vote count for?" mentality. In the last six months, I have written at least ten letters to my rep, Congressman, and Senators. I know that some (most) of the letters have no hope of changing an opinion... But I've been getting this nagging feeling that by not making my thoughts as a voter known, I'm sitting here being part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

As for "The Sword" - I'm pretty sure the firearms/ammo sales since 11/4 have shown quite handily that we as a "free" nation retain the right and ability to wield our "swords" should it ever come to that. The line, as said, has been drawn in the sand.

 

[jds1971]

The liberals are whining about how the NRA has "taken over Congress" - but I don't see it. If anything the NRA has been overtaken by the average American gun owner putting his money where his beliefs are.

This is a great line sir. Very well-put.

 

[Cabinetman]

Allow me to get back to Preachers Sheets original post.

In my opinion, the writing is on the wall. Some guys are standing too close to that wall if they can't read the writing. We have entered into a situation that will not become any better for at least the next three years, imvho.

I personally called some ammo manufacturers and was clearly told that in many cases they are backordered into 2010 and that's just from what's happening today. If the stress was relieved entirely today we'd still see the back order, with little or no supply until at least then.

This is not a situation where you can simply order from the mail because your local shop is out of stock. This is a situation that is affecting the entire CONUS and we are ALL experienceing the shortage. In addition, even the components are missing. There are NO primers and NO bullets out there even if you decided to roll your own. While I consider myself more of an optimist, there is nothing to be optimistic about with regards to ammo availablity.

And, this is not the end. Think long and hard about what's happened to ammo and ammo components. I'll bet you, personally, could name at least a 1/2 dozen major manfacturers off the top of your head and there are many dozens more out there. Yet none of them has been able to put a dent in the market and shelves are cleared out permanently. Even Cabela's is backordered claiming 5 weeks on most calibers and more then 9 weeks on others. But it's been reported to me by friends that their orderes were actually cancelled. No stock in the forseeable future.

So, no common calibers on the shelves.....no primers.....no brass....no bullets. Com'on! And I'm not saying this is any kinds of conspiricy at all. It's a classic "demand has stripped supply" so low that resupply is virtually impossible. In light of the current administration's penchant to turn everything we know as America on its head, gun control will, most certainly, be brought up and that will nail the coffin shut. There are no manufacturers out there that aren't working 24/7 and still the shelves are bare today and that's based on what "might" happen. What's going to happen with the administration actually brings things to the forefront?

It's affected virtually all of us. I'm an instructor and I can't take my students out to shoot anything except .22s which is not what I usually do. My .380 and .45 handguns are staying home anymore because I don't want to deplete my current supply of ammo. We have all reduced our shooting at the range because of lack of ammo and this is especially true if you shoot handloads. With the lack of components to replace your stock it's not wise to burn through as much ammo as in the past.

It's so depressing to go to every single one of the suppliers out there only to see "Out of Stock"...." Back Order Only"......listed for virtually every single common handgun round or their components. This is a dangerous situation, fellas, and not just some abberation interrupting our supply.

So, no tinfoil hats are needed. Just wide-open eyes and the hopes that you have an "in" with your local shop and they'll put aside a box or two of your caliber if and when they get it in.......at any price.

Rome

 

[TomH]

I still think anything can happen. We're talking about a guy who has thrown the Constitution under a bus with all these bailouts and company takeovers. He basically took a match to it in under 6 months in office. And no one is protesting, there is no opposition to any of this. He is destroying our currency, savings, freemarket system, and wants to destroy our healthcare. Guns are surely somewhere on the list.

 

[Kalahari]

I still think anything can happen. We're talking about a guy who has thrown the Constitution under a bus with all these bailouts and company takeovers. He basically took a match to it in under 6 months in office. And no one is protesting, there is no opposition to any of this. He is destroying our currency, savings, freemarket system, and wants to destroy our healthcare. Guns are surely somewhere on the list.

Recent polls are showing that Americans are more gun-friendly than they have been in a long time. The fact that Democrats in Washington (I think it was around 70 of them) flat out said "Don't touch guns" is only more evidence that Obama won't be signing any anti-gun legislation anytime soon.

I wouldn't turn a blind eye to it all, but I am truly not worried. There are just too many other issues - which, by the way, are more important to most people than guns - that need to be handled first.

 

[cekim]

Recent polls are showing that Americans are more gun-friendly than they have been in a long time.

While I take some comfort in that reality, the other reality is that Democrats are the masters of unintended consequences as well as ethical bypass/compromise...

They also honestly believe that they "know best"...

Polls were overwhelmingly against TARP I, but it went through with no resistance from democrats and only cosmetic resistance from Republicans...

You have to remember that to the liberal elite, we are just naive children unable to understand the complexities of the world and we need to be taken care of...

Our opinion doesn't matter...

None of them read the bills - they vote on the title or the pretty picture they provide for those like Pelosi and McCarthy who are completely illiterate...

So, even without intended to, they could pass gun bans...

 

[cekim]

P.S. There is also the matter of a personality cult operating here...

Given that a dolt like Al Gore convinced people the ice core data said the opposite of what it really said with nice graphics and some theme music - imagine what reverend Barry could do the next time he passes out a round of Kool-Aid...

"Brains, Brains, Ban Guns, Ban Guns..." -Obamabots

 

[Kalahari]

They also honestly believe that they "know best"...

Just about everyone in politics believes this. Democrats are hardly the only ones.

Polls were overwhelmingly against TARP I, but it went through with no resistance from democrats and only cosmetic resistance from Republicans...

But there wasn't a co-sponsored letter from about 70 Congressional Democrats saying "Don't even think about it!" like we have with gun control.

"Brains, Brains, Ban Guns, Ban Guns..." -Obamabots

In all fairness, gun control was almost a non-issue in the election. This was not 1994 over again. Obamabots might not like guns, but if they were looking to solely rid our country of guns, they wouldn't have elected Barry. McCain isn't the most ardent defender of gun rights, either.

 

[richc]

P.S. There is also the matter of a personality cult operating here...

Given that a dolt like Al Gore convinced people the ice core data said the opposite of what it really said with nice graphics and some theme music - imagine what reverend Barry could do the next time he passes out a round of Kool-Aid...

"Brains, Brains, Ban Guns, Ban Guns..." -Obamabots

Funny... I haven't heard a thing about global warming in months. I guess we have bigger fish to fry... so to speak.

Rich

 

[cekim]

In all fairness, gun control was almost a non-issue in the election. This was not 1994 over again. Obamabots might not like guns, but if they were looking to solely rid our country of guns, they wouldn't have elected Barry. McCain isn't the most ardent defender of gun rights, either.

No, my point is that with a "personality cult", this can change faster than you think...

Hitler wasn't elected on a platform of genocide... That came later...

 

[cekim]

Funny... I haven't heard a thing about global warming in months. I guess we have bigger fish to fry... so to speak.

To some extent that's because there is no dissent in government on this issue[sad2]

The only debate is who gets to role around nekkid on the bed of money collected from Carbon Trading... [sad2]