Sig announces details of Air Marshall guns

[News Shooter]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/tsa-security-cops-blast-release-handgun-information/story?id=9403793

Maybe a mod can cut and paste the story. It's several pages long and I'm not sure how to do it.

 

[M1911]

Much ado about nothing. Sig announced that they got a contract to supply Sig P250s in .357SIG to DHS for the air marshals. Then some air marshals claim that this is sensitive information that would give hijackers a better chance of success.

 

[ochmude]

OMG, a gov't agency is using Sig handguns!

 

[Baystatesuks]

OMG, a gov't agency is using Sig handguns!

This will require the terrorists to rewrite their handbooks for sure.

 

[M1911]

OMG, a gov't agency is using Sig handguns!

Basically.

 

[Jose]

Then some air marshals claim that this is sensitive information that would give hijackers a better chance of success.

toolbox

 

[Martlet]

Panties in a wad over nothing.

 

[jasons]

They can learn the gun's capabilities, and how to operate it should they seize one in an ambush.

Something tells be they'd be able to figure it out anyway. Still I don't see the upside in publicizing anything about the program just so that Sig can drop names in print ads....

 

[Jose]

Terreri said that would-be attackers now can "determine if the weapon has any type of safety mechanism, how many rounds each magazine can hold, and the typical characteristics of the weapon." A former Air Marshal said the disclosure was a boon to potential hijackers. "Now they know which exact model to train with when they ambush a Marshal trying to stay alert in the most boring job in law enforcement."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL, what a moron.....

 

[Jose]

Wait, how can you ambush a Marshall if they are undercover?

FAM = useless

 

[jkelly]

Wait, how can you ambush a Marshall if they are undercover?

FAM = useless

By using what I think they they call a sleeper.

jkelly

 

[MaverickNH]

I'm betting the story is actually just a clever ruse to catch the terrorists off-guard. When sleeper cell membeers leap from their seats, expecting to quicky neutralize SIGs, and find FAMs shooting them down with Beretta pistols, they will have no option but to die dogs' deaths.

 

[Jose]

By using what I think they they call a sleeper.

jkelly

Then knowing or not knowing which pistol the marshall has is not going to do them much good since they will probably just pop his melon from behind.

 

[jkelly]

As you didn't seem to know I’ve explained to you how a FAM could be ambushed.

Then knowing or not knowing which pistol the marshall has is not going to do them much good since they will probably just pop his melon from behind.

Or more likely he will have to confront the FAM without a firearm by a physical attack from any direction. Which could allow the knowledge of the FAM's firearm to be useful.

jkelly

 

[terraformer]

Great, the handful of air marshals left are relying on security via obscurity. I feel so much safer...

 

[Martlet]

Which could allow the knowledge of the FAM's firearm to be useful.

jkelly

How?

 

[terraformer]

As you didn't seem to know I’ve explained to how a FAM could be ambushed.




Or more likely he will have to confront the FAM without a firearm by a physical attack from any direction. Which could allow the knowledge of the FAM's firearm to be useful.

jkelly

How the hell would the knowledge of what they are carrying be of any use? The way to combat a sleeper is to use good tactics and to not have both air marshalls sitting in first class.

 

[strangenh]

Or more likely he will have to confront the FAM without a firearm by a physical attack from any direction. Which could allow the knowledge of the FAM's firearm to be useful.

So when they seized the FAM's Sig and went to pull the trigger, the non-existent external safety would have surely frustrated their attempt, but now... oh, wait.

 

[jkelly]

How the hell would the knowledge of what they are carrying be of any use? The way to combat a sleeper is to use good tactics and to not have both air marshalls sitting in first class.

You'd have to ask Terreri what that knowledge is, he seems to be worried about it.

I know nothing of what training a FAM has or what tactcis they use, do you?

I didn't know planes had two FAMs sitting in first class. Are there two of them and do they both sit in first class, or are you making that up?

Respectfully,
jkelly

 

[M1911]

Or more likely he will have to confront the FAM without a firearm by a physical attack from any direction. Which could allow the knowledge of the FAM's firearm to be useful.

jkelly

Do you really think a terrorist would be unable to figure out how to use a SIG if he had trained with a Glock or a Beretta?

 

[jkelly]

Do you really think a terrorist would be unable to figure out how to use a SIG if he had trained with a Glock or a Beretta?

Do you think that's what I said?

My point in this thread was not to validate whether knowledge of the new FAMs firearm was useful to bad guys or not. I'll leave that to the experts, real and imagined, to figure out.

I wanted to point out to jose that a FAM can be ambushed and that a physical struggle is likely to ensue rather than a shot to the back of the FAM's head.

Respectfully,
jkelly

 

[Martlet]

When FAMs are leaving them in restrooms, what will a little press release hurt?

 

[M1911]

Do you think that's what I said?

My point in this thread was not to validate whether knowledge of the new FAMs firearm was useful to bad guys or not. I'll leave that to the experts, real and imagined, to figure out.

I guess I misconstrued what you wrote. So that leaves me puzzled when I look back to read it again:

Or more likely he will have to confront the FAM without a firearm by a physical attack from any direction. Which could allow the knowledge of the FAM's firearm to be useful.

 

[jkelly]

I guess I misconstrued what you wrote. So that leaves me puzzled when I look back to read it again:

I can see how my statement could cause confusion, sorry.

I used “could” to imply its possible there is a benefit to the bad guy knowing which firearm the FAM is using, rather than using the word “would” and implying that there was definitely a benefit. I don’t know if any benefit exists and didn’t want to take sides.


Respectfully,
jkelly

 

[skyhawk]

Whatever they are using, the hole put in the plane's skin by a stray
bullet will still suck people out

 

[News Shooter]

Humph! Yeah, I'm sure. When I was a mechanic in the Air Force, I was being transferred on a MATS plane, At 20,000 feet, one of the windows shattered. The guy sitting next to it was about 170 pounds. He went through that little space like a hunk of hamburger going down a disposal, and right after him coats, pillows, blankets, cups, saucers. Yeah, I'm sure!

 

[drgrant]

I didn't know planes had two FAMs sitting in first class. Are there two of them and do they both sit in first class, or are you making that up?

I think what TF is getting at, is if you've traveled on aircraft enough, the FAM's are so obvious (if they are aboard) that they stick out like green jellybeans in a bag full of orange ones. I've spotted several probable FAMs, and I don't even travel that much.

-Mike

 

[terraformer]

I think what TF is getting at, is if you've traveled on aircraft enough, the FAM's are so obvious (if they are aboard) that they stick out like green jellybeans in a bag full of orange ones. I've spotted several probable FAMs, and I don't even travel that much.

-Mike

Correct. They get on the plane ahead of time, they don't drink and they are always at the front of the plane. You fly enough it is painfully obvious really.

 

[jkelly]

Correct. They get on the plane ahead of time, they don't drink and they are always at the front of the plane. You fly enough it is painfully obvious really.

I don't fly much anymore (I use to fly a couple hundred times a year) and the people whom I've watched practice/qualify, that I thought were FAM, were a good cross of body types, races and sexes. So my hat's off to you two, if you're right.

Respectfully,
jkelly

 

[mikem317]

Correct. They get on the plane ahead of time, they don't drink and they are always at the front of the plane. You fly enough it is painfully obvious really.

Sounds like the SOP might need to be changed.