SHTF Conundrum: Liberal Friends come for shelter

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My wife and I have been talking about this one. We have a lot of liberal friends. They aren't "friends", they are real, but they are unabashed liberals (we stay away from politics). Now, they are about as unprepared as you can be: live in Boston, about 2 hours worth of supplies, close to a red zone, etc, so they likely wouldn't survive the first night of SHTF, but what if they make a break to your alamo?

Part of me wants to turn them away, but how could I? The other problem is that they wouldn't be bringing anything to the table except for a bunch of hungry mouths.

What say you?
 
They arrive with rifles upon them. If that doesn't scare them away they can come to within 21 ft, and explain what they want and if it's compelling enough maybe I'll let them stay. If they are scared of the rifle or tell me to put it down, I tell them to get the f*** out of here or I'll put them down.
 
Anything really serious, and holing up like one's a hermit is only going to work if you're already in the middle of nowhere. People looking at serious survival mode are going to need functional neighbors to generate new resources, coordinate work, and -yes- pool watch duty. Hermits working hard to stay alive can't do 24/7 watch. If you change your scenario from, "bunch of hungry mouths" to, "bunch of trustworthy, trainable hands who can help out throughout our self-reliant, local network for as long as the bad times last," then things sure start to look different.

I figure, the reality is that there's two ways to look at disaster - a limited supply that's better the fewer people you have, or an unlimited supply of work to be done, that's better the more trustworthy hands you have. It's how the more remote old New England towns got through the winters anyhow, and they're probably not a bad model to follow - after all, they made it.

BTW, your wife sounds like a keeper.
 
Do they have any useful skills? Sounds like any that don't are unlikely to even make it out to you. Any that do may be trainable.
 
Piggy backing an earlier comment - if they were able to get out of Boston and make it to NH they're far from useless.

Finally, if they're your friends - truly friends, turning them away will cause you to lose a significant portion of your humanity.
 
This is a tough question. I'm married and I have two children. Lately, I've taken the attitude that I have to hope for the best but PLAN for the worst. I'm starting to get my own planning together. I've noticed that so far it is: a) hard, and b) expensive. Nobody hopes we pull through our current problems smoothly, but I think it is far better to be prepared than not.

As such, I have been torn by this question. I'm sure 99% of the people I know (and care about) are not planning like I am, and if I tried to talk them into it, they would laugh at me.

I'd be conflicted by two things. First, it would be my nature to want/try to help those if the SHTF bad. Second, my wife, 7 month old, and 2 year old daughter are the most important things to me and I deem it my very serious obligation to provide for them and protect them.

So, if a good friend, or even close relative shows up and needs food, a gun, shelter, etc., I would unfortunately be forced to examine the situation as a potential trade off with my wife and children. If I give person X a can of food, could it be the can that causes my child to go hungry? If someone shows up sick, could the medical supplies have been used to save my wife or child's life later?

Unfortunately, when I ask these types of questions, I'm forced to conclude that for practical reasons, I may have to turn people away, or aggressively protect my resources if need be.

I believe we are all responsible for ourselves in the end. I see my duty to my own family as my only obligation if the SHTF.
 
All depends on how bad the SHTF

True libs will not be running to you. They will be huddled in a powerless home, cold and afraid, waiting for the government to rescue them. They EXPECT someone to come to their aid. The tought of having fo fend for themselves, even for the short trip to your place will be unthinkable.

Look at disaster movies (liberal training for disaster in their minds) People sit around the TV as it projects images of selfless heroes rescuing them, no involvement necessary or needed by the "regular joe"

They expect that everyone else will be as powerless as they are. Keep quiet, dont flaunt power during an extended outage, dont invite them over and hope for the best. Things truly descend to a low level then answer the door with a gun, "sorry I dont have room, try the shelter at ____" Family First.
 
Sorry, "no vacancy" here for liberals....I wouldn't care what they showed up with. I can't stand them when times are good, I sure as hell don't want them around when TSHTF. The people invited here already know who they are and logistics are already planned.
 
are they female? attractive?

Turgidson: Doctor, you mentioned the ratio of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn't that necessitate the abandonment of the so-called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned?

Strangelove: Regrettably, yes. But it is, you know, a sacrifice required for the future of the human race. I hasten to add that since each man will be required to do prodigious...service along these lines, the women will have to be selected for their sexual characteristics which will have to be of a highly stimulating nature.

yeah, I go with this also....Are they HOT?
 
are they female? attractive?

Turgidson: Doctor, you mentioned the ratio of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn't that necessitate the abandonment of the so-called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned?

Strangelove: Regrettably, yes. But it is, you know, a sacrifice required for the future of the human race. I hasten to add that since each man will be required to do prodigious...service along these lines, the women will have to be selected for their sexual characteristics which will have to be of a highly stimulating nature.

I'm sorry, but this is exactly where I went first.

I can't for the life of me think of a reason the men would stay...
 
That all depends on who it is, how close you are to them, how trustworthy they are, what type of supplies you have on hand, what the disaster that caused a SHTF scenario is, etc. There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to a decision like this. Instead of asking yourself this question, why not avoid the possibility and suggest to them they start to prepare.

We've seen from recent disasters that the government is ususlly about three steps behind in any rescue or aid efforts. Look at Hurricane Katrina, or the floods in Iowa last year. Government response was delayed at best. It's not that hard or even that expensive to prepare. Last I checked (it was a few weeks ago) storage food was running about $1500~2000 for a year supply, that's $30~40 a week. How many people spend more than that on fast food? $20 for a first aid kit, $10 for a few flashlights. On average, each rescue costs taxpayers more than that.
 
if they were able to get out of Boston and make it to NH they're far from useless.

+1 on that. You think traffic is bad now - wait until the SHTF and everyone (not just commuters) are trying to get out. The roads will be gridlocked x 10!

Once the roads are non passable, can your friends walk to your place in a day? Two days? Through the droves of unprepared masses that are driven to desperate measures (theft, violence, etc) to satisfy thier thirst, hunger, need for warmth / shelter?

Now is the time to sit your friends down and have a good hard talk. Something along the lines of: If you want to come here; fine. Don't come empty handed (even if they only come with the correct attitude). Don't tell anyone else (no extra friends who told two friends, who told two more, etc).

If they are really friends (no quotation marks) then they will not be comfotable putting you in a tough spot.




.
 
"Refugees" arrive with nothing and are directed to the nearest .gov shelter.
"Reinforcements" arrive loaded with Beans, Bullets & Bandaids and are welcomed.

I've already told more 'n a few "friends" not to bother showing up.
I can respect personal opinions and such but don't show up tellin' me what to do.
---and that's what they do.
 
"Refugees" arrive with nothing and are directed to the nearest .gov shelter.
"Reinforcements" arrive loaded with Beans, Bullets & Bandaids and are welcomed.

I've already told more 'n a few "friends" not to bother showing up.
I can respect personal opinions and such but don't show up tellin' me what to do.
---and that's what they do.

Very good point.. I have told my best friends the same thing. "Love ya folks, mean it, but don't come here unprepared."
I hate to have that attitude, but on more than on occasion I have had a liberal friend find themselves in deep shit and go from mocking me for keeping myself prepared to saying "man.. I could have used you there!!". My response: "Then get armed, trained, and be able to take care of your own self instead of relying on others."

That being said, if they came at least with some food and supplies, I doubt I would turn them away.. but they would be having to live off of what they bring, get what they need, and be prepared for some of the shit-jobs." [smile]
 
First, they have to find my BOL.

Exactly where that is hasn't been finalized, and that task will happen sometime between when the likelihood of a bug-out gets high and when I roll up on a possible option, hopefully in my motor home.
 
Reading quite a bit of what FerFAL has written Given that if TSHTF, I think that very likely that it will happen in a similar way to what's happened in Argentina...and so cash reserves will likely be useful to pay off current debt before things get too much worse.

My liberal-leaning friends have little in the way of things to contribute to the daily workings of things, but every one of them has a high salary and in general a fairly high savings rate, so they'd be particularly helpful in terms of replenishing cash reserves. One is also significantly more armed that I am at the moment...with a decent Bushmaster, 1911, Glock 23 and a couple of boxes of ammo for each.

My not-so-liberal friends largely do not have as high an income or savings rate, but also in general have more available durable goods...think 4wd vehicles, generators, welders, and tools in general.

Even if someone is a drain in one respect, so long as the net gain is positive I'm OK with them staying.
 
It's a family: man+woman+ 3 sons. They might be teachable to shoot, but I would bet that they wouldn't pull the trigger even if their lives depended on it. Maybe I can teach them to plant or chop wood. Urgh.
 
It's a family: man+woman+ 3 sons. They might be teachable to shoot, but I would bet that they wouldn't pull the trigger even if their lives depended on it. Maybe I can teach them to plant or chop wood. Urgh.

Is this "showing up at your place" scenario a conversation you have even had with them - or is this something that is just a scenario that you and your wife are worrying about (because you know them and think it will happen)??

One place to start with this might ( if you have not discussed it with them already) - is to try to somehow gently bring it up in a conversation. Something as simple as mentioning a story you read about terror attacks - and how most people are unprepared to help themselves might do it. Then see what their reaction is. If you are worrying that this is something that might happen - and that they have not even thought about it yet, but they will inevitably end up at your place if the SHTF - then you owe it to everybody involved to somehow start the conversation.

You should also be aware that even opening the whole topic might be a massive can of worms. I have heard numerous stories of this topic starting some mighty fights.

One tale I remember was a person who (if I remember correctly) posted his experience on TheHighRoad. He lived in the NorthWest (Washington) about 20 miles outside a major city. And he described himself as "survivalist" in that he was prepared with firearms, food storage, fuel, generator - the whole works. His family also was friends with a bunch of other families in the neighborhood -which had expanded with upscale housing and was largely occupied with refugees from CA. Well one night at a party somehow the topic of conversation came around to what would happen in the face of a disaster - well a couple of the wives of said CA couples made comments about how they would all be coming to WA guys' house. As he described it - he made comments about how only had enough to help out his own family - and if they were worried about a problem like this they should prepare on their own - the wives went off on a tirade about him being a hoarder, they would call the authorities, etc. etc. This of course caused an even further fight - and the gathering broke up. The comment that this guy said he made that probably sealed the deal was telling them that if they tried coming into his house during a time of disaster bad enough they are running over to his house - that he would shoot them.

He did also end the story by saying that a week or so later he was talking with one of the husbands who told him that he had been thinking about what was said - and he was looking for advice on what kind of generator to get - and he wanted to learn how to shoot and wanted some firearms advice.

So my take on that whole story was that in the end the blowup was probably a good thing. At least one of the three husbands was made to think about the whole situation because of the incident. If these people are in any way friendly - sooner or later the one husband and the original poster will probably be able to convert the other two. Then the husbands will have problem on their hands with the lunatic wives.

But a lot of us have had those problems.

My advice is to pick away at it. I have done that with my girlfriend. I use the "don't let a good crisis go to waste" method of making progress. When the ice storm put our power out and the house was about to go to freezing - I had my reason to buy a generator. As the prices of bottled water have gone up (she drinks the bottled stuff all the time) - I have constantly said: we should get a big water processing filter. Prices of food going up: lets stock up on some more food. Guns: I claim good investment since all the stuff I have bought have gone up in price. The increase in crime reports also helps my case on keeping a gun ready in the house.

If you know these people well enough you should be able to find some way to get them thinking about this stuff. Your ultimate goal is probably to let them know that they are welcome - but make sure they understand in no uncertain terms that this is not going to be a free ride - they are going to HAVE TO bring something to the party.

If the subject gets breached even asking a simple question like: How are you going to make it all the way here from the city? What if the power is all out and the gas stations don't work (like during the ice storm), what if there are 10's of thousands of oeople on the move and the roads are all blocked? Can you walk? Ride a bike? How will you carry your stuff? With all these people out after a disaster will you be able to get your entire family to my house safely? (remind them of Katrina when the police hit the road).

One other method I have found that works to enlighten people is to constantly feed them information that backs up the point you are trying to make. I have been doing this for years with some people. Using the economic breakdown as an example - I have sent around stories and articles for quite some time to a bunch of people who were often doubters on the ideas of libertarians and those who said an economic debacle was coming. I do the same thing with my girlfriend about gun stuff and survival type things.

What I have noticed over time is that the attitudes of these people DO change. I get things parroted back to me that I know came from stuff I sent them long ago.

If you are truly worried about this and want to help these people - you will have to first (in my opinion) figure out where they stand on the topic, then you will be able to go from there to devise a plan of attack on how to help them get real about the whole situation.

Then again - you could always lie to them and say in case of SHTF you are bugging out to the upper peninsula in Michigan or some such thing - far enough you know they wont follow. That also might let them know they are on their own and get them thinking......
 
So are you saying it wouldn't be a question if they were your conservative friends? You'd let them in? I thought the issue was limited resource sharing..... should be regardless of persons political views.
 
My issue is that I have several conservative friends who have lots of money (compared to myself). I've even talked with them the importance of stocking up on food and other survival items. Their priorities remain investing in the stock market. I'll never understand how you can have tens of thousands in the stock market and not spend a couple hundred dollars on tangibles like food, ammo, and physical gold.

And yes, I've had one tell me that he's coming to my house when things start breaking down. In this state he's really out of luck, though. I can't give him a gun and I really don't have that much food to just hand out.

I guess the point is that it is irritating that many of us make huge sacrifices to prepare for the future and then our friends who have much higher living standards (probably much higher debt/income ratios, too) believe they can join up with us when things get rough.

And I don't care whether they are liberal or conservative (although the liberal ones will hear "I told you so" for the rest of their lives).

I keep preaching, though, to my conservative and liberal friends. I just hope they surprise me and show up with some gold or guns or something. If they come empty handed I'll probably just hand them some dried peas and point to a tent set up in the backyard.
 
So are you saying it wouldn't be a question if they were your conservative friends? You'd let them in? I thought the issue was limited resource sharing..... should be regardless of persons political views.

Weeellllll.........yes, now that you put it that way. I wouldn't let a liberal into my SHTF AO if they had a truck load of supplies. See I just can't stand liberals or being around them and I'm not afraid to state it
 
So are you saying it wouldn't be a question if they were your conservative friends? You'd let them in? I thought the issue was limited resource sharing..... should be regardless of persons political views.

Yeah, that is EXACTLY what I am saying. I view liberals, and their poisonous views as 100% of the reason that we are here. Their opinions have consequences.
 
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