Shooting at 200 yards.

[paul73]

Thank you. I just did a search on it. That is an incredible app.
Week be quite helpful. Pete

make sure to make separate sets of rifles in it, and separate sets of loads per each rifle. it makes it a breeze then to use.

 

[SgtHal75]

I feel attacked

Me too

 

[PatMcD]

Strelok.
Pair it with the Windy app, and it works quite accurately. As long as you are shooting in an open area with predictable winds (no fishtails or other "wind bouncing" down our typical bowling alley rifle ranges).

I used them the last 2 years in Ohio: I'd use Windy's data and then pair it with my load on Strelok, then I'd sit and listen to what good shooters around me were using for wind and it was pretty spot on.

 

[SgtHal75]

It’s easier (so more accurate) to estimate the range of a known object using mils. If an adult male (6 foot or 2 yards tall) is 4 mils tall in your scope then he’s 2000/4 = 500 yards away.

If that same 6’ guy is 8 mills tall, he’s 2000/8 = 250 yards away. Object size in yards X 1000 divided by how many mils = yards to target.

Or in metric: target size in meters X 1000 divided by mils = distance to target in meters.

Once you get that, you can use the same math to calculate hold-overs.

Obviously if you have scope with the reticle in the 2nd focal plane you would need to adjust the magnification accordingly.

Not to split hairs with you but your example isn’t based on actual precision and the reason why mrad is “more accurate” at a greater distance. It makes sense and is a good example of range estimation and getting a round on target to some but not to all. Me personally, I use MOA. It’s what makes the most sense to me and I can make changes very easily cause I know what my round is going to do in inches know matter what distance I’m at. I got my 100 yd dope on my scope and I know exactly how many MOA I need at 200,300,400, etc…I can ring 9’s,10’s, and x’s all day long at 500-600yards with MOA and somebody with a dialed in MRAD can do the same. It’s the old argument of which is better. Please don’t read this post the wrong way I’m not trying to be a dick just having good conversation over the Internet

 

[jasons]

Not to split hairs with you but your example isn’t based on actual precision and the reason why mrad is “more accurate” at a greater distance. It makes sense and is a good example of range estimation and getting a round on target to some but not to all. Me personally, I use MOA. It’s what makes the most sense to me and I can make changes very easily cause I know what my round is going to do in inches know matter what distance I’m at. I got my 100 yd dope on my scope and I know exactly how many MOA I need at 200,300,400, etc…I can ring 9’s,10’s, and x’s all day long at 500-600yards with MOA and somebody with a dialed in MRAD can do the same. It’s the old argument of which is better. Please don’t read this post the wrong way I’m not trying to be a dick just having good conversation over the Internet

I still mostly think in yards and MOA myself because that’s how I was taught a million years ago. I’ve also shot a few decent strings on known distance courses over the years.

That said, range estimation is absolutely easier with mils, and if you’re reducing error by more accurately estimating range to target then you are, by definition, improving accuracy.

 

[paul73]

Pair it with the Windy app,

that windy app seems like a $140 per year subscription? or is there a free version that can be linked to strelok?

 

[PatMcD]

that windy app seems like a $140 per year subscription? or is there a free version that can be linked to strelok?

I don't pay for it. I didn't know there was a pay version.

 

[groundscrapers]

Backed down from my goal of hunting deer and elk out to 300 yards. Worked on 200 yards today. Shooting prone with my pack and sitting using the pack as the brace. Decent crosswind, probably 15 knots or so. I'm sighted at 100 yards. I do not dial for distance. Much better results then my 300 yard trials. Aimed about 3 inches high and a couple inches left to deal with the wind. Starting to understand the wind thing a bit more. It comes into play at these distances and you just need to deal with it. Well, plenty of chance to practice it where I live, haha.

Happier with my results. All within 3 to 4 inches of center of target. I can live with that, especially if I'm sighted on an elk.

So for this season, my limit is 225 yards max for hunting. I will keep practicing shooting off my pack right through the season, which starts Saturday.

at 200 yards with a hunting cartridge you can ignore wind under 500yds. A 5MPH wind left to right is only pushing a round 5" off from point of aim and that drops to 1.25" at 200yds. Even elevation at 200yds is damn near the same as your 100yd zero so just hold straight up center.

 

[groundscrapers]

I still write it out on a card and tape it to my stock, just like they taught me at the getting to 1000 class at Sig. It stands for something and I’ve forgotten that but know how to DOPE. I know you’re out west now but I bet there are a ton of long range shooting classes in Utah or Montana, I forget where you are now.

thats a good starting point but when your density altitude changes your dope goes right out the window. Shoot the same ammo, in the same environmental seasons, at the same elevation and you will be ok. Travel west and it will become a problem.

 

[groundscrapers]

There is a big difference. Maybe not at 200, but again, 200 doesn't require much skill.

Go to longer ranges and Mil makes more sense.

And what is that about reticle being Mils but turret MOA???

View attachment 676009

there is no difference between the two my dude. Both are angular measurements. You will however find a ton of long range shooters working with mils... f class dudes like moa still.

 

[groundscrapers]

Not to split hairs with you but your example isn’t based on actual precision and the reason why mrad is “more accurate” at a greater distance. It makes sense and is a good example of range estimation and getting a round on target to some but not to all. Me personally, I use MOA. It’s what makes the most sense to me and I can make changes very easily cause I know what my round is going to do in inches know matter what distance I’m at. I got my 100 yd dope on my scope and I know exactly how many MOA I need at 200,300,400, etc…I can ring 9’s,10’s, and x’s all day long at 500-600yards with MOA and somebody with a dialed in MRAD can do the same. It’s the old argument of which is better. Please don’t read this post the wrong way I’m not trying to be a dick just having good conversation over the Internet

why are you even bothering to convert an angular measurement into a linear measurement. If you are shooting a scope in moa and need to adjust your POI to your POA just measure with your reticle and adjust in the respective MOA amount.

 

[JRT]

thats a good starting point but when your density altitude changes your dope goes right out the window. Shoot the same ammo, in the same environmental seasons, at the same elevation and you will be ok. Travel west and it will become a problem.

Eh, I do 80% of my hunting in Utah and Wyoming. Thanks for the tip the though.

 

[vcman]

If you're starting this journey a word of advice

Learn mils (milradians) not MOA

Dont use a 50 yard zero because the trajectory of the bullet will cross line of sight TWICE for pretty much every cartridge from 223/5.56 up.

Picture is worth thousand words

If you use a 50 yard zero you will be on target for 50 yards and approx 200 (depending on ballistics of the cartridge) but you'll need to come DOWN for everything BETWEEN 50 and 200 and up for everything past 200.....unnecessarily complicated especially when you're under stress of making a shot.

A 100 yard zero is simpler. Yes you will need to accommodate sight height over bore for very close shots but its stupid easy consistent for holdovers (elevation dope) past your zero.

ShootersCalculator.com | Ballistic Trajectory Calculator

Calculates the ballistic trajectory of a bullet fired from a rifle, handgun or other firearm. Produces a ballistic trajectory chart and table that shows the drop, velocity, kinetic energy, windage, and trajectory of a bullet.

shooterscalculator.com

Just using 308 win as example for illustrative purposes.

You can hold your zero at 100

You could hold 1 mil at 200 yard target all the way out to 300 yard target and the vertical spread would fall well within center of mass.....assuming you do your part.

Based on the above if you held 1 mil at 200 you would be about 1" high.....at 225 you would be dead on.....at 300 you would be 4" low.....at 350 you would STILL be center of mass with a 1 mil holdover.

If you're shooting a cartridge with better ballistics like a 6.5 creedmore then you can push the efficacy of a 1 mil holdover out further

I'm not trying to discourage you from learning what your dope is at different ranges.....I'm just trying to point out that inside of 400 yards you dont have to work hard to get center of mass hits if you do your part.

If you want to learn about wind here's some good references/discussion...it might give you a brain spasm at first but its actually pretty easy and once you figure out the MPH of your gun/projectile and learn to read wind (no value/half value/full value) it becomes easy to calculate holdover values/dope for wind......inside of 300 yards you really dont need to calculate wind unless you're shooting in 20+ mph winds and even then.....

Calculating mph rifle

At a recent match, many on my squad were describing their wind calls in terms of mph, by saying eg: I used a 5mph wind( rather than describing it in terms of mils). These were good shooters doing this. (I just got on their squad by accident). Where can I learn about this technique, and...

www.snipershide.com

U a sniper or something? I have to learn about mils now because my scope come with it ,not moa. This is what i get 4 buying used guns and scope.any pointers about mils system that u want to show me will be good.

 

[groundscrapers]

Eh, I do 80% of my hunting in Utah and Wyoming. Thanks for the tip the though.

same here and I will get a zero in MA and then update that when i'm on the ground in wyoming, import new environmental data from my kestrel and validate the shift output from 4dof.

**
just looked at my data from 4dof and I saw a .6mils shift in my dope at 500 from MA to WY. Thats a shade of 11" of deviation at that distance and im shooting out to 800.

 

[SgtHal75]

why are you even bothering to convert an angular measurement into a linear measurement. If you are shooting a scope in moa and need to adjust your POI to your POA just measure with your reticle and adjust in the respective MOA amount.

I’m not. I was responding to why MRAD is more accurate than MOA at greater distances.

 

[groundscrapers]

I’m not. I was responding to why MRAD is more accurate than MOA at greater distances.

you had said you use MOA because you know what your round will do in inches at distance. MOA is angular so why convert that to a linear dimensions in inches is what I was asking.

 

[paul73]

you had said you use MOA because you know what your round will do in inches at distance. MOA is angular so why convert that to a linear dimensions in inches is what I was asking.

i have now half scopes in mrad, half in moa - cannot make myself to think in mrad still, but it is a minor inconvenience. may bein time it will revert.
for now it is difficult to get rid of old habit to know that 1 inch at a 100 is 1moa, and 3 inches at 300 is a same 1 moa. you remember that well and it sticks.
mrad doesn`t.

 

[cathouse01]

i have now half scopes in mrad, half in moa - cannot make myself to think in mrad still, but it is a minor inconvenience. may bein time it will revert.
for now it is difficult to get rid of old habit to know that 1 inch at a 100 is 1moa, and 3 inches at 300 is a same 1 moa. you remember that well and it sticks.
mrad doesn`t.

Unless you think in meters. Then .1 mil is 1 cm at 100 meters, 2 cm at 200, 3 cm at 300, etc. If you don't think in terms of whole inches, I find mils easier to use since at 100 of any measure (yards, meters, feet, Smoots) .1 mil will be .01 of your basic unit of measure. So .01 yards (.36 inches), .01 meters (1 cm), .01 feet (a bit less than an eight of an inch) or .01 Smoots. In fact, no matter what your unit of measure is, .1 mil will always equal your range divided by 10,000. So at 1000 yards, .1 mil will be exactly 1000/10,000 or .1 yards, or 3.6 inches. At very long rages, Mils is actually easier than MOA since, at 100 yards 1 MOA is actually 1.047 inches, so at 1000 yards, its actually 10.47 inches, so you're technically a little off when using the 1 MOA equals 1 inch rule. Not that it particularly maters, since a half inch at 1000 yards is nothing.

Now in terms of size of "one click", most MOA scopes will be 1/4 MOA per click which is about a .25 inch at 100 yards, while a mil scope will use .1 mil clicks which is .36 inches at 100 yards, so a mil scope's turrets are less granular than an MOA scope's. However, you can get mil scopes that are .05 and .025 mils per click. Of course those are mostly Schmidt Bender's or March's and are up in the 5K range.

I happen to be comfortable using either.

 

[paul73]

I don't pay for it. I didn't know there was a pay version.

Dunno how it is - may be I got a wrong app first time.
I installed it again and do not see where is a link between apps on an iPhone?
Or you just enter it manually into StrelokPro?

 

[PatMcD]

Dunno how it is - may be I got a wrong app first time.
I installed it again and do not see where is a link between apps on an iPhone?
Or you just enter it manually into StrelokPro?

This is the Windy app icon, top row. Is that the same one? Every time I open it they offer the premium version, but I have never paid for it.

It works just like a Google earth app where you steer around the world and zoom in where you want. It shows wind arrows; not many when it's light, a lot when it's really blowing. Tap the screen in a spot and it will tell you the current speed and wind direction right there.



I just use the regular, non-pay strelok. I'll assume "strelok pro" is a pay version?

 

[Mountain]

Lots of good info in this thread. Some is a little off.

Shooting at 200 doesn't have to be too complicated. For 308 and similar calibers, your trajectory will drop a hair less than 2 MOA from 100 to 200 yards. A 10 mph wind at 90 degrees will push the bullet ~1.5" off center. Pretty much everyone who shoots old milsurps with 1 MOA sight 'clicks', like M1 Garands etc., simply moves the elevation up 2 clicks and shoots. If you have a flatter shooting caliber (6.5CM etc.) and 1/4 MOA adjustments on your scope, 1-3/4 MOA will work. Adjust accordingly for the wind.

If your fundamentals are not solid, don't fret about any technical requirements at 200 yards because they won't matter. Practice at shorter distances simply for the convenience, and once your groups are as tight as you want and generally where you want them- 200 yards will be a no-brainer.

 

[paul73]

This is the Windy app icon, top row. Is that the same one? Every time I open it they offer the premium version, but I have never paid for it.
View attachment 676798
It works just like a Google earth app where you steer around the world and zoom in where you want. It shows wind arrows; not many when it's light, a lot when it's really blowing. Tap the screen in a spot and it will tell you the current speed and wind direction right there.
View attachment 676799
View attachment 676800

I just use the regular, non-pay strelok. I'll assume "strelok pro" is a pay version?

i for some reason misunderstood, perhaps, that the strelok app will be smart enough to link itself to windy and request wind automatically from it, both the speed and direction according to the position of the phone. like it pulls the weather automatically.
but you need to do it by hand, right?

 

[PatMcD]

i for some reason misunderstood, perhaps, that the strelok app will be smart enough to link itself to windy and request wind automatically from it, both the speed and direction according to the position of the phone. like it pulls the weather automatically.
but you need to do it by hand, right?

That would be a really cool app if it could do that, but no: I look on Windy to get the wind, then jump over to Strelok, punch that number in to get my wind drift.

 

[groundscrapers]

i have now half scopes in mrad, half in moa - cannot make myself to think in mrad still, but it is a minor inconvenience. may bein time it will revert.
for now it is difficult to get rid of old habit to know that 1 inch at a 100 is 1moa, and 3 inches at 300 is a same 1 moa. you remember that well and it sticks.
mrad doesn`t.

Unless you think in meters. Then .1 mil is 1 cm at 100 meters, 2 cm at 200, 3 cm at 300, etc. If you don't think in terms of whole inches, I find mils easier to use since at 100 of any measure (yards, meters, feet, Smoots) .1 mil will be .01 of your basic unit of measure. So .01 yards (.36 inches), .01 meters (1 cm), .01 feet (a bit less than an eight of an inch) or .01 Smoots. In fact, no matter what your unit of measure is, .1 mil will always equal your range divided by 10,000. So at 1000 yards, .1 mil will be exactly 1000/10,000 or .1 yards, or 3.6 inches. At very long rages, Mils is actually easier than MOA since, at 100 yards 1 MOA is actually 1.047 inches, so at 1000 yards, its actually 10.47 inches, so you're technically a little off when using the 1 MOA equals 1 inch rule. Not that it particularly maters, since a half inch at 1000 yards is nothing.

Now in terms of size of "one click", most MOA scopes will be 1/4 MOA per click which is about a .25 inch at 100 yards, while a mil scope will use .1 mil clicks which is .36 inches at 100 yards, so a mil scope's turrets are less granular than an MOA scope's. However, you can get mil scopes that are .05 and .025 mils per click. Of course those are mostly Schmidt Bender's or March's and are up in the 5K range.

I happen to be comfortable using either.

1moa at 100 is 1moa, 1mil at 100 is 1 mil. Ignore linear dimensions.... use the ruler in your scope. It could be units of pepperoni and 1 pepperoni at 100 is 1 pepperoni. The issue that hangs people with one or the other is this weird desire to make an angular measurement a linear one. #keepangularmeasurementsangular

 

[mcshooter]

I guess this is why they said we wouldn't have a calculator all the time with us

 

[Mountain]

1moa at 100 is 1moa, 1mil at 100 is 1 mil. Ignore linear dimensions.... use the ruler in your scope. It could be units of pepperoni and 1 pepperoni at 100 is 1 pepperoni. The issue that hangs people with one or the other is this weird desire to make an angular measurement a linear one. #keepangularmeasurementsangular

For a target you intend to hit and not retrieve, angular makes sense- military targets and steel plates for example. For paper punching games with scoring rings, good luck with that.

 

[groundscrapers]

For a target you intend to hit and not retrieve, angular makes sense- military targets and steel plates for example. For paper punching games with scoring rings, good luck with that.

no no no always stay in angular....... always lol. When I shoot prs and miss the steel I am intending to hit I look through my scope measure poi relative to my poa with my reticle, make the correct adjustment and reengage. Your reticle doesn't care what units you are using, just use those units to make an adjustment based on what you see in your scope.

 

[cathouse01]

Tho

no no no always stay in angular....... always lol. When I shoot prs and miss the steel I am intending to hit I look through my scope measure poi relative to my poa with my reticle, make the correct adjustment and reengage. Your reticle doesn't care what units you are using, just use those units to make an adjustment based on what you see in your scope.

Though in ranging with your scope, you do have to sometimes convert from angular to linear when you have an odd height target.

 

[groundscrapers]

Tho

Though in ranging with your scope, you do have to sometimes convert from angular to linear when you have an odd height target.

this is probably the only reason you would need to do that. Estimating range based on an objects height but the guys trying to do mental gymnastics to take a linear dimensions from where their round hit the target to the bullseye and convert it to an angular one is where it goes sideways lol.

 

[cathouse01]

this is probably the only reason you would need to do that. Estimating range based on an objects height but the guys trying to do mental gymnastics to take a linear dimensions from where their round hit the target to the bullseye and convert it to an angular one is where it goes sideways lol.

Yeah, I see your point. Certainly once you're trying to correct, it would be simpler just to do everything in MOA or mils. But I think I lot of us have enough trouble just going to meters from yards, so it's hard to just start thinking completely in terms of angular measures since this is somewhat foreign to our normal daily experiences.