Shooting at 200 yards.

[peterk123]

Backed down from my goal of hunting deer and elk out to 300 yards. Worked on 200 yards today. Shooting prone with my pack and sitting using the pack as the brace. Decent crosswind, probably 15 knots or so. I'm sighted at 100 yards. I do not dial for distance. Much better results then my 300 yard trials. Aimed about 3 inches high and a couple inches left to deal with the wind. Starting to understand the wind thing a bit more. It comes into play at these distances and you just need to deal with it. Well, plenty of chance to practice it where I live, haha.

Happier with my results. All within 3 to 4 inches of center of target. I can live with that, especially if I'm sighted on an elk.

So for this season, my limit is 225 yards max for hunting. I will keep practicing shooting off my pack right through the season, which starts Saturday.

 

[JRT]

Backed down from my goal of hunting deer and elk out to 300 yards. Worked on 200 yards today. Shooting prone with my pack and sitting using the pack as the brace. Decent crosswind, probably 15 knots or so. I'm sighted at 100 yards. I do not dial for distance. Much better results then my 300 yard trials. Aimed about 3 inches high and a couple inches left to deal with the wind. Starting to understand the wind thing a bit more. It comes into play at these distances and you just need to deal with it. Well, plenty of chance to practice it where I live, haha.

Happier with my results. All within 3 to 4 inches of center of target. I can live with that, especially if I'm sighted on an elk.

So for this season, my limit is 225 yards max for hunting. I will keep practicing shooting off my pack right through the season, which starts Saturday.

I use Kentucky windage and probably always will. That said, if you want to gain confidence killing game at longer distances spend a day in a class or on YouTube and learn to set DOPE on your rifle and ammunition. There are so many things going on as you are about to take a 400 yard shot it can be overwhelming, you remove a shit ton of those when you have your DOPE set up. I waited too long and tracked too much big game to learn how to kill at longer distances.

 

[Georgiak9]

So for this season, my limit is 225 yards max for hunting

Have you thought about using a 50 yard zero instead of 100? It should keep you within 2-3 inches from 0-225 yards without using a holdover.

 

[Broc]

Backed down from my goal of hunting deer and elk out to 300 yards. Worked on 200 yards today. Shooting prone with my pack and sitting using the pack as the brace. Decent crosswind, probably 15 knots or so. I'm sighted at 100 yards. I do not dial for distance. Much better results then my 300 yard trials. Aimed about 3 inches high and a couple inches left to deal with the wind. Starting to understand the wind thing a bit more. It comes into play at these distances and you just need to deal with it. Well, plenty of chance to practice it where I live, haha.

Happier with my results. All within 3 to 4 inches of center of target. I can live with that, especially if I'm sighted on an elk.

So for this season, my limit is 225 yards max for hunting. I will keep practicing shooting off my pack right through the season, which starts Saturday.

In my opinion, serious shooting doesn't start until you are past 200. Even with wind, unless you are shooting a .22, shooting at 200 is fairly easy if you are shooting from some sort of supported position.

 

[peterk123]

In my opinion, serious shooting doesn't start until you are past 200. Even with wind, unless you are shooting a .22, shooting at 200 is fairly easy if you are shooting from some sort of supported position.

Guess I'm not serious. Maybe someday.

 

[Broc]

Guess I'm not serious. Maybe someday.

I didn't mean that as an insult.

I meant it as that is when wind starts messing with your shots enough that you can screw up a kill (depending on caliber).

 

[peterk123]

I didn't mean that as an insult.

I meant it as that is when wind starts messing with your shots enough that you can screw up a kill (depending on caliber).

Haha, not taken as one. I'm really enjoying this little journey I'm on. Every range I belonged to in mass limited me to 100 yards. And 95% of my hunting has been with a bow. The distances here are very different. I'm also placing some limits on myself. No dialing. Only use the pack to brace. Basic duplex, but good glass. Limit myself to 6x magnification. Man, targets start to get small at 200 and out. That right there steps up the challenge, at least for me. You can be off a few inches and have no idea.

 

[92G]

what cartridge?

Have you thought about using a 50 yard zero instead of 100? It should keep you within 2-3 inches from 0-225 yards without using a holdover.

^^^This!

or just dope down from the current 100 yard zero to establish a 50-200 yard zero. The wee bit high POI at 100 will likely be insignificant but would help keep a dead hold out to farther distances.

 

[peterk123]

Okay.... I'm looking up this DOPE thing. See. This is why I post these threads.

 

[Broc]

Haha, not taken as one. I'm really enjoying this little journey I'm on. Every range I belonged to in mass limited me to 100 yards. And 95% of my hunting has been with a bow. The distances here are very different. I'm also placing some limits on myself. No dialing. Only use the pack to brace. Basic duplex, but good glass. Limit myself to 6x magnification. Man, targets start to get small at 200 and out. That right there steps up the challenge, at least for me. You can be off a few inches and have no idea.

Long range shooting is fun, there is a ton to learn, specially reading the wind.

I don't consider myself good.

There are a few members here thet are really good at it and can give you a lot of advice. Also, if you show up to a competition, volunteer to spot or just hang out and ask questions. People at those competitions are awesome and very helpful.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

In my opinion, serious shooting doesn't start until you are past 200. Even with wind, unless you are shooting a .22, shooting at 200 is fairly easy if you are shooting from some sort of supported position.

I was gonna say... My 30-06 won't even budge left or right on the windiest days inside of 200. Let's do some math.... 3000 feet per second... 200 yards = 600 feet. That means from muzzle to target is roughly only 1/3rd of 1 second. That's not enough time for wind to do anything to the bullet in flight.... Not something the average Joe would notice and have to account for anyway, and not something your average hunting rifle would be accurate enough to pick up either.

If you're having trouble grouping in the wind, it's not the bullet being impacted by the wind... It's you.

 

[snd1t]

Okay.... I'm looking up this DOPE thing. See. This is why I post these threads.

If you're starting this journey a word of advice

Learn mils (milradians) not MOA

Dont use a 50 yard zero because the trajectory of the bullet will cross line of sight TWICE for pretty much every cartridge from 223/5.56 up.

Picture is worth thousand words

If you use a 50 yard zero you will be on target for 50 yards and approx 200 (depending on ballistics of the cartridge) but you'll need to come DOWN for everything BETWEEN 50 and 200 and up for everything past 200.....unnecessarily complicated especially when you're under stress of making a shot.

A 100 yard zero is simpler. Yes you will need to accommodate sight height over bore for very close shots but its stupid easy consistent for holdovers (elevation dope) past your zero.

ShootersCalculator.com | Ballistic Trajectory Calculator

Calculates the ballistic trajectory of a bullet fired from a rifle, handgun or other firearm. Produces a ballistic trajectory chart and table that shows the drop, velocity, kinetic energy, windage, and trajectory of a bullet.

shooterscalculator.com

Just using 308 win as example for illustrative purposes.

You can hold your zero at 100

You could hold 1 mil at 200 yard target all the way out to 300 yard target and the vertical spread would fall well within center of mass.....assuming you do your part.

Based on the above if you held 1 mil at 200 you would be about 1" high.....at 225 you would be dead on.....at 300 you would be 4" low.....at 350 you would STILL be center of mass with a 1 mil holdover.

If you're shooting a cartridge with better ballistics like a 6.5 creedmore then you can push the efficacy of a 1 mil holdover out further

I'm not trying to discourage you from learning what your dope is at different ranges.....I'm just trying to point out that inside of 400 yards you dont have to work hard to get center of mass hits if you do your part.

If you want to learn about wind here's some good references/discussion...it might give you a brain spasm at first but its actually pretty easy and once you figure out the MPH of your gun/projectile and learn to read wind (no value/half value/full value) it becomes easy to calculate holdover values/dope for wind......inside of 300 yards you really dont need to calculate wind unless you're shooting in 20+ mph winds and even then.....

Calculating mph rifle

At a recent match, many on my squad were describing their wind calls in terms of mph, by saying eg: I used a 5mph wind( rather than describing it in terms of mils). These were good shooters doing this. (I just got on their squad by accident). Where can I learn about this technique, and...

www.snipershide.com

 

[JRT]

Okay.... I'm looking up this DOPE thing. See. This is why I post these threads.

I still write it out on a card and tape it to my stock, just like they taught me at the getting to 1000 class at Sig. It stands for something and I’ve forgotten that but know how to DOPE. I know you’re out west now but I bet there are a ton of long range shooting classes in Utah or Montana, I forget where you are now.

 

[Bodhisattva]

It stands for something and I’ve forgotten

Data Of Previous Engagement

 

[SgtHal75]

Ok I’ll start it….MOA is waaaaay betta than Mils. Change my mind…

Honestly, I do prefer MOA. It’s so easy a liberal could do it

 

[hpm]

Ok I’ll start it….MOA is waaaaay betta than Mils. Change my mind…

Honestly, I do prefer MOA. It’s so easy a liberal could do it

Since when should we lower our standards to a liberal’s intellectual capacity?

 

[LakeTrout]

I prefer MOA, a maximum point blank range zero for your exact rifle and load based on your target diameter, and learning your drop/holdovers based on that. I hate the idea of using some generic zero just because it is a friendly math number like 50,100,200, etc.

And with the distances you’re talking about hunting at, you should be able to find your MPBR zero and not need to holdover at all for many calibers including 308.

That said, I have zero knowledge of shooting at anything with a pulse at those ranges, so maybe I’m way off. This is what I like for targets at different distances on the 600 yard range. I’ve been shooting the same rifle, with the same scope, and same load forever and I feel very dialed in with it.

Again, I’m not the worlds greatest shot and I have no experience hunting at those distances, But maybe this is something you try and see if it works for you.

 

[cathouse01]

Ok I’ll start it….MOA is waaaaay betta than Mils. Change my mind…

Honestly, I do prefer MOA. It’s so easy a liberal could do it

I don't think there is much difference between MOA or Mils, it's just what you get use to. I do find it irritating when a scopes reticle is in Mils but the turrets are still MOA.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I don't think there is much difference between MOA or Mils, it's just what you get use to. I do find it irritating when a scopes reticle is in Mils but the turrets are still MOA.

Next, you're going to tell us you don't see much difference between vi and emacs either. Or Pepsi and Coke.

 

[Broc]

I don't think there is much difference between MOA or Mils, it's just what you get use to. I do find it irritating when a scopes reticle is in Mils but the turrets are still MOA.

There is a big difference. Maybe not at 200, but again, 200 doesn't require much skill.

Go to longer ranges and Mil makes more sense.

And what is that about reticle being Mils but turret MOA???

 

[Mesatchornug]

There is a big difference. Maybe not at 200, but again, 200 doesn't require much skill.

Go to longer ranges and Mil makes more sense.

And what is that about reticle being Mils but turret MOA???

View attachment 676009

It's less common now, but there were some manufacturers who would just change the reticle in their scope, but the clicks would stay the same... so you might have mil dots and moa clicks on your turrets. For people who build accessories for their Toyota from the hardware bin at Home Depot.

 

[Broc]

It's less common now, but there were some manufacturers who would just change the reticle in their scope, but the clicks would stay the same... so you might have mil dots and moa clicks on your turrets. For people who build accessories for their Toyota from the hardware bin at Home Depot.

Sounds ghetto AF and something that must be pretty old or used with cheap Amazon Chinese junk.

Were any reputable scope manufacturers doing that?

 

[92G]

@peterk123 strelok app is super easy to use and will readily calculate your predicted dope. you can even plug in the reticle and it will calculate holdovers. Awesome app. There are others but StrelokPro for me has been excellent.

 

[SgtHal75]

There is a big difference. Maybe not at 200, but again, 200 doesn't require much skill.

Go to longer ranges and Mil makes more sense.

And what is that about reticle being Mils but turret MOA???

View attachment 676009

I don’t see how one is more accurate than the other. It’s really shooters preference. If 1 MOA at 1000 yards is 10 inches and 1 mrad at a 1000 yards is 36 inches…how is it more accurate? It’s not, it’s all a preference. There has to be a thread on here “Talk to me about MOA vs Mrad”…it’s probably a NES Donnybrook

 

[jasons]

Decent crosswind, probably 15 knots or so.

That’s a shitload of wind.

 

[jasons]

I don’t see how one is more accurate than the other. It’s really shooters preference. If 1 MOA at 1000 yards is 10 inches and 1 mrad at a 1000 yards is 36 inches…how is it more accurate? It’s not, it’s all a preference. There has to be a thread on here “Talk to me about MOA vs Mrad”…it’s probably a NES Donnybrook

It’s easier (so more accurate) to estimate the range of a known object using mils. If an adult male (6 foot or 2 yards tall) is 4 mils tall in your scope then he’s 2000/4 = 500 yards away.

If that same 6’ guy is 8 mills tall, he’s 2000/8 = 250 yards away. Object size in yards X 1000 divided by how many mils = yards to target.

Or in metric: target size in meters X 1000 divided by mils = distance to target in meters.

Once you get that, you can use the same math to calculate hold-overs.

Obviously if you have scope with the reticle in the 2nd focal plane you would need to adjust the magnification accordingly.

 

[Boghog1]

For people who build accessories for their Toyota from the hardware bin at Home Depot.

I feel attacked

 

[Mesatchornug]

Sounds ghetto AF and something that must be pretty old or used with cheap Amazon Chinese junk.

Were any reputable scope manufacturers doing that?

Leupold used to do it. Until recently, I'm pretty sure Vortex and SWFA had offerings. Particularly in SFP scopes where you always dial your holds, .25 MOA is smaller than .1 MRAD, so there's a perception of greater precision.

At this point, it seems less common, but think of it this way: you've tooled up reliable MOA turrets and your audience has started asking for MRAD scopes. Changing the reticle is a relatively quick and easy process. Now you get the best of both worlds for a small investment.

For shooters have a DOPE card, the calculations are already done. If you're using a SFP scope, where you need to zoom all the way in for ranging, then want to go somewhere in the middle of your magnification to take the shot, you're already taking time fishing with things; an extra couple seconds calculating isn't a big deal. If you are zoomed all the way in, you can use your mil dot reticle for holds, too.

In theory, the only real pain is learning conversions at the beginning, until you've collected enough Past Experience (another version of the acronym) to fill in your card.

 

[paul73]

Dont use a 50 yard zero because the trajectory

for hunting with 223-308 50yds zero is a way simpler thing to use IF most of your game shots will be in that range. how often do you shoot at anything beyond 200yds in the forest?
longer range - sure, 100yds zero is the standard. all my rifles are set to 100yds, except of 2 pencil barrel ARs - one in 223 and other in 308, as for practical midange combat with a second plane LPVO scope this 50-200 zero is a way simpler approach - a flat line shot.

 

[peterk123]

@peterk123 strelok app is super easy to use and will readily calculate your predicted dope. you can even plug in the reticle and it will calculate holdovers. Awesome app. There are others but StrelokPro for me has been excellent.

Thank you. I just did a search on it. That is an incredible app.
Week be quite helpful. Pete