school property question

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Patriots1

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First off I am going to apologize for the this question that I'm sure in one way or another has been answered 100 times over. I have a MA Class A ltc unrestricted. I pick up my kids from the the local charter school every day. I drive a 2011 Silverado that has the locked glove box and lockable storage under the middle seat up front. I'm sure you've all now figured out my question. If I seperate gun and clip, lock in seperate compartments, pick up kids and go home am I screwed IF i get stopped or caught? Trying to avoid the obvious solution of passing school to go home and drop off the firearm to go back and get the kids. I do not get out of the truck. I just park and the kids get in. I'm kinda hoping for some answers from the LEO on the site. Thanks in advance.
 
The statute in question is MGL Chapter 269 Section 10j. Full txt here: https://malegislature.gov/laws/generallaws/partiv/titlei/chapter269/section10

If you unload the gun and lock it up PRIOR to entering school property, you are in compliance with the law. It isn't clear, however, whether a locked glove box is a locked container, based on MA case law.

That said, despite the fact that you follow the law, if you are discovered on school property with a gun in your vehicle, expect to be arrested and possibly have your LTC revoked.

If possible, stop on the side of the public street to pick up your kids. If you never enter school property then you are in compliance with the law even if your gun is in your holster.
 
I can tell you from driving a similar truck...I went out and bought a small hornady lock box and attached the cable to drivers seat. I lock gun and mag in it...no worries
 
M1911 said:
The statute in question is MGL Chapter 269 Section 10j. Full txt here: https://malegislature.gov/laws/generallaws/partiv/titlei/chapter269/section10

If you unload the gun and lock it up PRIOR to entering school property, you are in compliance with the law. It isn't clear, however, whether a locked glove box is a locked container, based on MA case law.

That said, despite the fact that you follow the law, if you are discovered on school property with a gun in your vehicle, expect to be arrested and possibly have your LTC revoked.

If possible, stop on the side of the public street to pick up your kids. If you never enter school property then you are in compliance with the law even if your gun is in your holster.
Click to expand...


Thanks, that's kinda of what I was thinking. There is a side street that the kids can get to. It'll just suck in the rain and snow. It's the whole "carry on their person" that gives the state the grey area. I typically work north of the school but live south of it. So I'm just trying avoid the excess time an d mileage if at all possible.
 
Fly in the ointment was a court case where judge ruled that even with a LTC it was illegal to POSSESS any guns or ammo on any school property, period. Case law can be a bitch, sadly.

ETA: Read the ruling here (might be link on Comm2a.org website, if not Google it):
Comm v. Jason Whitehead, MA Appeals Ct # 12-P-1970
 
free said:
I agree, I am thinking of corrections officer Reyes' case where a locked glove box was not thought to be secure, but the whole issue was not and has not been fully addressed, i.e. yes for sure or no for sure.
Click to expand...

The Reyes decision was a travesty. Unfortunately it seems to be typical of the morons on the SJC.
 
It's a bitch. I'm in and out of the school at LEAST twice a day every day for the past 5 years with three little ones. I have a lock box in my truck too, but don't ever use it, call me a paranoid, marsehole, statist, conformist but I never carry or carry stored on school property. I see carpenter guys every day however with multi-tools on their belts, one guy I presume was a knife case actually but luckily the teachers weren't PC enough to report him. I'd like to think they know me so well at the school that if I was caught carrying that they would scuttle the issue, but I'd rather not take that chance and don't want to be part of national headline news.
 
People are missing the bigger problem and it wasn't Reyes decision. Give a read to the Whitehead case I referenced above. Lockboxes are cheap and avoid the glovebox issue, but it's not so easy sometimes NOT to park somewhere on school property.
 
When I took my LTC course I was told there were only a couple places you could not carry - courthouses/federal buildings & airports. Basically anywhere there might be metal detectors. I think he believed the constitution trumped state and local law but if liberals had there way you would be arrested for carrying in your own home. SOrry I know this wasn't helpful.
 
Gunny67 said:
When I took my LTC course I was told there were only a couple places you could not carry - courthouses/federal buildings & airports. Basically anywhere there might be metal detectors. I think he believed the constitution trumped state and local law but if liberals had there way you would be arrested for carrying in your own home. SOrry I know this wasn't helpful.
Click to expand...

The federal Gun-Free School Zone Act, Gunny.

The Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) is a federal United States law that prohibits any unauthorized individual from knowingly possessing a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone as defined by 18 U.S.C.§ 921(a)(25). Such a firearm has to move in or affect interstate or foreign commerce for the ban to be effective.
It was introduced in the U.S. Senate in October 1990 by Joseph R. Biden and signed into law in November 1990 by George H. W. Bush.
Click to expand...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...fKHe6VckEeflzemsg&sig2=9kGOMj_uBUiiPTB7IyOTAg
 
Actually, MA state law supersedes 18USC, 922, as it allows for this exemption, MA doesn't recognize a LTC as being valid on school property

18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(2)(A)] does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
Click to expand...
 
You may want to ask for a refund.

Gunny67 said:
When I took my LTC course I was told there were only a couple places you could not carry - courthouses/federal buildings & airports. Basically anywhere there might be metal detectors. I think he believed the constitution trumped state and local law but if liberals had there way you would be arrested for carrying in your own home. SOrry I know this wasn't helpful.
Click to expand...
 
M1911 said:
The Reyes decision was a travesty. Unfortunately it seems to be typical of the morons on the SJC.
Click to expand...

I just read this case and wouldn't you know it;I used to work with an Amaury Reyes who was a bartender at Bertucci's in Reading. He was always a nice guy and was really happy when he got a job as a CO. This was about 5-6 years ago.

I can't believe some shitbag CO ratted him out. Nothing like having a dagger to the front and back.
 
jibbr71 said:
Fail.

Mass has LEO issuance exemption covered with regard to FGFZA. Unfortunately, they also explicitly forbid school grounds carry. Now try to figure out NH.
Click to expand...

The interesting thing wrt NH is that my NR License from NH probably gives me the exemption whereas a resident does not get that same benefit due to the fact that the 1st Selectman CAN issue resident licenses if there is no PD in NH.
 
Len-2A Training said:
Fly in the ointment was a court case where judge ruled that even with a LTC it was illegal to POSSESS any guns or ammo on any school property, period. Case law can be a bitch, sadly.

ETA: Read the ruling here (might be link on Comm2a.org website, if not Google it):
Comm v. Jason Whitehead, MA Appeals Ct # 12-P-1970
Click to expand...
The decision is indeed bizarre. It states that one cannot "possess it on school grounds", and then goes on to cite the text of 269 10j with the "carries on his person" wording.

In both of these cases, however, there was no charge for the possession of ammuntion and thus the defense did not get a chance to argue that the specific wording "on ones person" that is present in 10j, but not present in other sections of MGL 269, has meaning. There is ample precedent that differences in wording within different sections of the same chapter are to be construed as having meaning. In practice, its pretty much unheard of for possession to be discovered without some other violation (in Whitehead, it was the gun in his backpack). In another case I am aware of, the ADA dropped the charges when defense counsel pointed out the nuance, and immediately refiled the case as a storage violation (and got a lengthy CWOF).

So, in other words, this remains an unsettled issue, presenting a risk to both the defendant as well as the ADA's win/loss record - which is why a simple "possession on school property" without other aspects (Muslim name, dirtbaggism, etc.) will almost certainly be disposed of without a precedent setting case.
 
Gunny67 said:
When I took my LTC course I was told there were only a couple places you could not carry - courthouses/federal buildings & airports. Basically anywhere there might be metal detectors. I think he believed the constitution trumped state and local law but if liberals had there way you would be arrested for carrying in your own home. SOrry I know this wasn't helpful.
Click to expand...
Your instructor forgot to mention the surface of the Atlantic ocean withing 500 ft of Logan airport.
 
Glockster30 said:
I forgot to mention that to a student this past weekend. I haven't given her the certs yet, so I still have time. [grin]
Click to expand...
Chances are you also forgot to mention that failure to report a hotel fire and receipt for deposit by insolvent banking institution are both lifetime MA disqualifiers.
 
Patriots1 said:
First off I am going to apologize for the this question that I'm sure in one way or another has been answered 100 times over. I have a MA Class A ltc unrestricted. I pick up my kids from the the local charter school every day. I drive a 2011 Silverado that has the locked glove box and lockable storage under the middle seat up front. I'm sure you've all now figured out my question. If I seperate gun and clip, lock in seperate compartments, pick up kids and go home am I screwed IF i get stopped or caught? Trying to avoid the obvious solution of passing school to go home and drop off the firearm to go back and get the kids. I do not get out of the truck. I just park and the kids get in. I'm kinda hoping for some answers from the LEO on the site. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
what are these clips you speak of? Garand, sks, other?
 

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