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Keltec design, Keltec kwality.
Who knows, who cares? All I am saying is that S&W deserves credit for their commitment to reproducing the Keltec design and the Keltec user experience.Huh? Does Keltec manufacture the barrels for this S&W shotgun?
Do you live in Mass? Are you a collector of fine, used, and abused Shields and M&P 15s and M&P 15-22s? Do you lust for a gun that can accept twenty mini-shells but still is tube mag fed? Do you love bullpup pumps? THEN THIS IS FOR YOU!!!!
Who knows, who cares? All I am saying is that S&W deserves credit for their commitment to reproducing the Keltec design and the Keltec user experience.
Congratulations and thanks for your data point. There is no shortage of other data points that suggest the Keltecs are hot garbage composed of mostly plastic and drywall screws and their QC is legendary. I've never bought a Keltec and never plan to. To each his own.First off, the Keltecs I've owned have actually functioned flawlessly. They are cheaply made for sure and subjectively ugly, but I've never actually had a functionality issue. I think they get a bad rap for being sh*t products just because they are cheap, but that has not been my experience. Secondly, I'm sure some people would care to know the right information. Or at least not get disinformation.
It is not that they are cheap, it is that a lot of other companies charge ridiculous prices. SW is one of those companies. Their quality has become sh*t, dssicions are made by accountants, you can see this on every single one of their sh*t Performance Center products.First off, the Keltecs I've owned have actually functioned flawlessly. They are cheaply made for sure and subjectively ugly, but I've never actually had a functionality issue. I think they get a bad rap for being sh*t products just because they are cheap, but that has not been my experience. Secondly, I'm sure some people would care to know the right information. Or at least not get disinformation.
First off, the Keltecs I've owned have actually functioned flawlessly. They are cheaply made for sure and subjectively ugly, but I've never actually had a functionality issue. I think they get a bad rap for being sh*t products just because they are cheap, but that has not been my experience. Secondly, I'm sure some people would care to know the right information. Or at least not get disinformation.
How many militaries, special forces, and police units use Keltec firearms?Keltec is CZ without good aesthetic sense (there, I said it... FIGHT ME)
Congratulations and thanks for your data point. There is no shortage of other data points that suggest the Keltecs are hot garbage composed of mostly plastic and drywall screws and their QC is legendary. I've never bought a Keltec and never plan to. To each his own.
I will say the 2 of 3 guns that I've ever had to send back to the manufacturer were both brand new S&W "performance center" revolvers.
Ooof... knock out blow to my argument because other than the KS7 and KSG12 I don't think any Keltecs have military or police use.How many militaries, special forces, and police units use Keltec firearms?
Keltec is CZ without good aesthetic sense (there, I said it... FIGHT ME). Both produce relatively cheap products compared to the competition, innovative designs, and have unobtanium models produced in limited numbers despite demand.
If Keltec could lure away some industrial designers from Magpul to refine the aesthetics, I think they'd be treated better by gun snobs.
I get your point about designs and whatnot, I would just add a disclaimer that CZ is able to generally execute the design and produce functional firearms that have been used by militaries since before Keltec was even founded. I have no direct Keltec experience other than firing a Sub 2k once.Ooof... knock out blow to my argument because other than the KS7 and KSG12 I don't think any Keltecs have military or police use.
It is not that they are cheap, it is that a lot of other companies charge ridiculous prices. SW is one of those companies. Their quality has become sh*t, dssicions are made by accountants, you can see this on every single one of their sh*t Performance Center products.
I get your point about designs and whatnot, I would just add a disclaimer that CZ is able to generally execute the design and produce functional firearms that have been used by militaries since before Keltec was even founded. I have no direct Keltec experience other than firing a Sub 2k once.
Keltec is CZ without good aesthetic sense (there, I said it... FIGHT ME). Both produce relatively cheap products compared to the competition, i
I get your point about designs and whatnot, I would just add a disclaimer that CZ is able to generally execute the design and produce functional firearms that have been used by militaries since before Keltec was even founded. I have no direct Keltec experience other than firing a Sub 2k once.
Yep, they're not perfect, but the general balance of their products is on the good side.CZ has a few dogs too, except they become easy to spot (omega P07, etc) and nobody buys them, and the world moves on.
But even their products aimed at competitors are complete sh*t. But in that case it could be because they have no competition, so why make an effort.S&W got taken by the allure of most gun buyers never even firing the guns they buy. Since Sandy Hook I would bet that easy 60% of the guns they sell never even get
fired, or if that, more than a few times. So they balance this factor into their numbers game and allow for a higher than typical reject/defect rate. After all, why go for good QA if like 80% of your customers aren't ever going to really use the things or push you to it? Not to mention, the branding. Some rep or exec probably watched the fun phenomenon known as "smith acolytes. " These are the people who gush about how much better a BG380 is than an LCP (it's not) but its "because its S&W prohduct" so the exec is like "wow, these people are
really dense, we can get away with murder"
It has long been a theory of mine that the Shield gets touted so much on NES because the average MA gunowner (read: guys that think "the list" matters) are somewhat limited in their selections for CCW (although increasingly less so, thankfully) and thus need, either consciously or subconsciously, to feel good about owning/carrying one. Everyone wants to fap about what they've bought. I've shot three Shields and I would say without exaggeration that I think they're a POS.
Yeah, I left out the skinflinting part, but that's definitely in play. Baby's first CCW for $299. Throw in a nice one-size-fits-most nylon holster and you're GTG.Also it was popular because skinflints. At one point they were basically giving away shields for like $299 or some shit like that, so everyone jerked off over it because price, and because flinting.
I didn't necessarily think the guns were that bad but the quality control is certainly lacking on many of them .
The plus looks better, but who knows. The one thing they got right was the trigger. Hopefully all M&Ps get that trigger and get rid of the rubber band.
But even their products aimed at competitors are complete sh*t. But in that case it could be because they have no competition, so why make an effort.
Keltec design, Keltec kwality.
For wheelguns there is only S&W + Ruger in the mass market space. And the new Python is a joke so that's out (at least until CZ fixes the issues etc).
The M&P 15 rifles arent too bad, but how can you f*** up an AR? you have to be really bad to f*** up an AR at this point.
First off, the Keltecs I've owned have actually functioned flawlessly. They are cheaply made for sure and subjectively ugly, but I've never actually had a functionality issue. I think they get a bad rap for being sh*t products just because they are cheap, but that has not been my experience. Secondly, I'm sure some people would care to know the right information. Or at least not get disinformation.
I did. I've owned several. The original P111 or whatever it was. The P32, which I had a problem with. Trigger wouldn't reset, IIRC. Fluff'n'buff on it and a return to KT and it was a very very very functional gun. P40. The PF9. P3AT, I think. (I think - maybe not.). That PF9 was just crazy light and annoying to shoot.
Oh and the fold-up 9mm rifle. Thing was a tack driver. Not very ergonomic. Didn't look like it would last in anything but range work. But it was accurate as hell. Would hit an 8" gong with regularity with the weak iron sights on it at 100yds. Funny was POA was the same at 10yds as 100. There was no holdover as I recall.
The plus looks better, but who knows. The one thing they got right was the trigger. Hopefully all M&Ps get that trigger and get rid of the rubber band.