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Rugers version of the AR15
- Thread starter stinx
- Start date
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
I disagree. I think this rifle is aimed squarely at the LE market, with black rifle shooters on the side. Now that S&W is a single source solution for LE firearms with a full line of handguns, backups, rifles, and shotguns for LE, Ruger needs to fight back to retain that small amount of market share that they have.
I think this will become more apparent as more departments make patrol rifles part of their standard kit.
Bill Ruger has been dead for years, would you guys please stop beating that horse?
Also, if you're not going to buy a Ruger AR because "no honest man needs more than 10 rounds", then how exactly are you going to justify buying a S&W AR?
Also, if you're not going to buy a Ruger AR because "no honest man needs more than 10 rounds", then how exactly are you going to justify buying a S&W AR?
While what S&W's old ownership did was bad they lost a ton of money quick, and thankfully, sold it before they ran it into bankruptcy. What Mr Ruger did has f'ed us all in Mass forever. Would mag caps have happened anyway? who knows but Bill Ruger put it on the fast track. If the new Ruger AR took their mags, like the Mini 14, I doubt they would sell them to us common civilians. Why does a factory Mini 14 mag cost about a hundred bucks? Because Rugers management still sucks.
I didn't realize that Bill Ruger lived in MA? Because the way I understand things, the only people you have to blame for the gun laws in your state are your voters. You have the freedom to change the law, it's not a dead guys fault you don't have the abillity.
This state is a lost cause no doubt and thats why you see so many people leaving. just look at how many on this board are in N.H. now. I would be gone tommorrow but I'll have to wait until next fall. This states "leaders" run roughshod over us daily and ignore the will of people to suit their needs. That however does not change my opinion of Rugers management or even their products. At least S&W has great firearms and customer service. BTW I don't own a Smith AR or plan on buying one but I won't buy Rugers.
Ruger is betting PD's will pay $$$ for thier product over FREE Colt M16A2's and M16A4's from the Federal government?
That's pretty dumb, IMNSHO.
Sure the rifles from the Feds won't be new, but, a barrel cost about $175 or so. The rest of the rifle generally doesn't wear out (other than the gas tube, and smart people replace them with the barrel).
That's pretty dumb, IMNSHO.
Sure the rifles from the Feds won't be new, but, a barrel cost about $175 or so. The rest of the rifle generally doesn't wear out (other than the gas tube, and smart people replace them with the barrel).
Gas tubes wear out? Where? At the breech end, where the carrier hits it? Can you tell a worn one by visual examination?
I learn something new from this forum every day.
I think it makes sense if you look at it from a business perspective, rather than a shooter perspective.
Ruger clearly felt they had to get into the AR rifle business if only because so many other major players are in it. There are a couple of problems, of which the worst is that the AR is a commodity product. After all, an amateur with a little background can put one together from parts. (This is a bit like the PC computer business.) With so many vendors offering very similar products, it's hard to make money due to price competition. (If you go to the gun store looking for a Stag, and a DPMS is little cheaper, do you go there instead? How much cheaper does it have to be? Not much.) To make it worse, we are now in a bubble which will eventually crash and leave the market with too much capacity.
Ruger would have to outsource a lot of the parts, and since they are late to the market, they aren't going to get very good prices. So all-in-all, they are going to have a very hard time competing on price. And, if they did put out a cheap AR, it would cannibalize the Mini-14 sales on which I assume they make good money.
And due to the competition for the out-sourced parts, they are going to have trouble ramping up production to any kind of significant number, at least for a while.
Finally, though all gun designers copy, Ruger does have a reputation for not copying too exactly.
So all the pressures are for Ruger to put out a relatively expensive product that competes on features. They had a few options, but (as recent models of the 10/22 and Mini-14 have indicated) they have decided they need to compete in the tacti-cool market. That leaves out fancy camo, or bright colors, and other design options. It also weighs against features expressly indicated for hunting. The gas piston is a promising choice. It's a premium feature. They would not be alone in the market, but it gives them a minimum of direct competitors, and sets them apart when the bubble bursts.
In the period while the market is hot and they are ramping up production, they are selling a small number of rifles at a good price. As time goes on, they can introduce cheaper variants.
Makes sense to me. It will make even more sense if it's a good product.
Added later: Others have commented that early emphasis seems to be on the LEO market. Probably they are less price sensitive, to the extent they are using public money.
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It may sound dumb, but:
1) Not all departments can stomach having automatic rifles.
2) There are probably tens of thousands, if not more patrol rifles out in cruisers today. Not all of them are government surplus. Companies like RRA, Bushmaster, S&W all sell a good number of rifles to the LE market. Ruger's simply trying to match S&W blow for blow.
The other question is how much did it cost Ruger to develop the gun? I'll take a WAG that the answer is not much. It's an AR and most of the development cost is sourcing the parts. The one question with this one is the gas piston system which seems to be unique to them.
If it doesn't cost much to develop and they can sell a decent number, then it's worth it to try.
They get plugged internally, and aren't easy to clean. Of course, it depends on what powder is used, but it all carbons up some.
Easier to swap them out when changing the barrel, as they aren't real expensive.
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http://www.tacticalgunfan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=538&Itemid=1
heres a lil write up on it. and also "Suggested retail price will be right around $2,000"
heres a lil write up on it. and also "Suggested retail price will be right around $2,000"
This guy picked one up for 1499.00 http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/630601935/m/94310903
Heres a review
http://gunblast.com/Ruger-SR556.htm
Looks interesting.
Heres a review
http://gunblast.com/Ruger-SR556.htm
Looks interesting.
J
Jose
Magpul P-Mags are proving their worth in the middle east. They are tough as hell and MORE durable than aluminum magazines. They also allow 100% positive insertion and locking on a closed bolt when loaded to full capacity of 30 rounds.
As long as P-Mags are availabla, I have no reason to buy anything else.
P-14
NES Member
Unfortunatley for us in non-free states, they are not pre-ban.
F
Finalygotabeltfed
Ruger is 50 years late getting into the AR rifle business, and their product doesn't look very convincing to me.......all the fake video aside.
I've fired a couple of gas piston AR15 guns and was not in the least impressed with them. There was more felt recoil (not that it matters with .223) but it was there just the same. The gun was noticeably heavier than a gas tube driven gun and as pointed out by another poster, its just another set of parts to maintain....and I'm sure Ruger will be the sole source for the parts......cha ching.
The price is more than ridiculous. I can build three functioning ARs for what they want for one of their guns.
Ruger should have thought this out more, unless thay are counting on some foreign sale to put this product to market. Their reputation with most in this country who enjoy the black rifles ishot to hell for previous sins.
Few people forgive but fewer forget.
I've fired a couple of gas piston AR15 guns and was not in the least impressed with them. There was more felt recoil (not that it matters with .223) but it was there just the same. The gun was noticeably heavier than a gas tube driven gun and as pointed out by another poster, its just another set of parts to maintain....and I'm sure Ruger will be the sole source for the parts......cha ching.
The price is more than ridiculous. I can build three functioning ARs for what they want for one of their guns.
Ruger should have thought this out more, unless thay are counting on some foreign sale to put this product to market. Their reputation with most in this country who enjoy the black rifles ishot to hell for previous sins.
Few people forgive but fewer forget.
The argument that it has more parts to maintain rings hollow.
Yes, it has a gas piston but so does an AK, M1A and Sig 556 and I don't hear people complaining about how much effort those are. At the same time, cleaning the bolt and chamber on an AR can be a bit of a PITA.
I'm not saying a gas piston is ideal on an AR but whatever replaces the M4 and M16 in the military certainly will have one.
Yes, it has a gas piston but so does an AK, M1A and Sig 556 and I don't hear people complaining about how much effort those are. At the same time, cleaning the bolt and chamber on an AR can be a bit of a PITA.
I'm not saying a gas piston is ideal on an AR but whatever replaces the M4 and M16 in the military certainly will have one.
dcmdon
NES Member
Not really. Between the rail and the sights, you're looking at $500 right there. You couldn't build one out of quiality parts for that kind of money.
And then there is the warranty. John Q public wants a warranty that those of us who screw around with this upper and this bcg and this lower just don't seem to understand.
Of courst none of this matters if it has problems. Time will tell.
Don
p.s. another thing. This is Northeast Shooters. We should support local companies. SR is based in CT and makes a whole lot of their stuff in New Hampshire. If its good product, we shold give it a shot. I personally own 3 of their Mk IIs, one Red Label, one old 3 screw 22 revolver and an LCP. Their semiautos have always been clunky pieces of crap. But the SR9 and LCP have changed that. Time will tell on the LCR.
Pass. Buying my lettuce and eggs locally is one thing, but we're talking about guns here. I prefer to buy the very best my dollars can afford, and I don't really care where they're made.
The Ruger solution strikes me as a piston-driven AR with someone else's (mostly Troy's, by the look of it) hardware and accessories. I'm not seeing either the innovation or features that drive the price where it seems to be landing.
Ummm, now see here folks, errrr, now just because I'm a stock holder in Ruger, don't think for one moment that's the reason I think this is the best AR15 of a contraption money can buy.
So buy one and 'fix' it. By the time you sell the stock and three mags that come with it, you might come close to breaking even.
Knuckle.....easier said than done, I emailed both ruger and s&w about their piston rifles and was told by both that there was no plan to make a mass compliant gun at this time.
I also asked ruger specifically about ordering one through my ffl with no ban parts and they said they only deal with distributors, not ffls
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This is easy and there's NOTHING keeping you from owning this rifle. You just can't keep it in the original configuration.
I did sort of the same thing with a Bushmaster. Buy one out of state then take off the stock, sell that and the mags on gunbroker.com and then have someone change out the flash suppressor for a brake. Voila! You no longer have an 'Assault Weapon'. The last part is the hardest as it requires someone with some skill. Personally, I prefer the brake, it shoots better and faster.
Truth of the matter is (and I won't advocate actually doing this) even if you don't do the last part no one will be he wiser. Unless you get into some other really deep doodoo AND someone thinks about trying to pile on an additional charge.
I did sort of the same thing with a Bushmaster. Buy one out of state then take off the stock, sell that and the mags on gunbroker.com and then have someone change out the flash suppressor for a brake. Voila! You no longer have an 'Assault Weapon'. The last part is the hardest as it requires someone with some skill. Personally, I prefer the brake, it shoots better and faster.
Truth of the matter is (and I won't advocate actually doing this) even if you don't do the last part no one will be he wiser. Unless you get into some other really deep doodoo AND someone thinks about trying to pile on an additional charge.
That's what SIG said about the 556, no way. 3 months or so after my 556 thread here on NES and the first MA compliant 556 rifles started coming in.
One e-mail isn't going to do it, start a thread, get people to post, e-mail it to the manufacturer and have other members/dealers contact the manufacturer as well.
I'm not saying my thread is what prompted SIG to make the ban compliant 556, but it sure looked like it had some sort of a positive impact.
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