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Review: EdgePro Apex... Edit: Now, the Wicked Edge too!
- Thread starter edhead35
- Start date
Yep, I got one. It takes some time to get the hang of it. Also the slurry will mar the blade if its a polished but its not a big deal on working blades.
Works very well on reprofiling and polishing the edge. I still use a Spyderco sharpmarker for touch ups.
Works very well on reprofiling and polishing the edge. I still use a Spyderco sharpmarker for touch ups.
After my first weekend of playing with all of my knives, I figured I would give you all an update.
First of all, the guy who invented and sells the EdgePro Apex and Professional Edge Pro is a top notch guy. Everything has a well made, home grown feel to it. He puts in the effort to clearly label everything, and the carrying case is well thought out, and everything fits like a charm. I decided to go with the Apex 4 Kit. http://www.edgeproinc.com/Apex-Model-Edge-Pro-System/Apex-4-kit-p7.html
From the website: Apex Model Edge Pro Sharpening system, 120 Grit coarse, 220 Grit Medium Fine, 320 Grit Fine, 600 Grit Extra Fine, 1000 Grit Ultra Fine Water stones, 1 pack of 15 2000 & 1 pack of 15 3000 Grit Polish tapes, 2- Polish tape mounting blanks, 8" 1200 Grit Ceramic Hone, Instructional DVD, Instructional Manual, Cloth, & Water bottle enclosed in a black Cordura Carrying case.
My first impression of the unit was that it was well thought out, meticulously packed, and lightweight. I thought the base unit was made of aluminum, but it was actually made from plastic - machined plastic, not molded. The instructional DVD's and his Youtube channel do a good job of setting you up, and you can sharpen a knife with great results the first time. I would recommend practicing on a couple lesser knives first though.
I sharpened a Kershaw Blur Tanto to a mirror finish, although it isnt perfect, I know I can do better with more time spent. This is an everyday blade for me, so I dont want to go crazy with it anyways, because I would prefer to keep the resharpening time down. The tanto blades you have to do in two seperate setups so it is time consuming.
I sharpened my Wushtof chef's knife and I was able to remove a couple chips my wife put in the blade a couple years back starting out with the 220 grit stone, finishing with the 600 grit, and the ceramic honing rod. 600 grit seems to be ideal for kitchen knives.
As far as my Gerber LMF II, that was another story. I am still working on this one, because the tip was ground from the factory kind of poorly, although it will still cut. I am waiting for my diamond stone to come in to take more metal at a faster rate.
Homemade knife - I started putting a brand new edge on a homemade knife made in our shop at work a long time ago. There were no angles on the knife at all, so I was starting fresh. I literally destroyed the 120 grit stone, and I now need to flatten it. This blade is hard as rock, and like I said, I was taking mega stock off of it. Keep in mind, these are inexpensive water stones, so they are pretty cheap.
Hunting knife - I was able to put a perfect and semi polished edge on my drop point Outdoor Edge Swingblade, which was better than the factory edge. This knife was challenging because it didn't fit the typical knife profile. Once you get the setup, it is easy though.
Kitchen Cleaver - Easy as pie. Not much to say here.
Random crap knife laying around the house - made it sharp enough to shave, but becase it is a crap knife, it won't hold the edge long.
The skinny on the Apex is this. The magic is in the strategy and setup. The angles are adjustable, so spend the time on each knife and get the angle right. Put painters tape on the edge of the machine, so you can see when you are stoning plastic away by accident. Also put some marker on the guide clips for the same reason. I took a good chamfer off the guide clip because you just can't see it coming off. I do wish I splurged on the Professional model, but the Apex will do fine for many years to come.
I just purchased a 3 pack of clips for $1.00, so I have spares and a bag of silicone carbide for flattening stones. I did not opt for the whole flattening kit, because I have scrap glass in the garage I will use for flattening my stones. I also purchased a fine diamond stone for hard and ceramic blades. I purchased a spare 120 grit stone, because I have alot of old knives that need alot of work, so I will put them through hell. I also like the ceramic hone so much, I purchased an extra hone with the wooden handle for the house, so I can leave the travel hone in my kit.
Regarding the video below: the video is quick and dirty, but shows a couple of the knives I sharpened. I only spent about 2 minutes recording it, so its ugly. The cleaver is really sharp but has a few knicks in it, which is why is catches and tears once in awhile. I will make this one brand new when my new 120 stone comes in. The last knife if the tanto I put the mirror finish on. It looks hazy, but the part a second before I cut the paper with the knife, you can see the reflection of the camera on the edge.
First of all, the guy who invented and sells the EdgePro Apex and Professional Edge Pro is a top notch guy. Everything has a well made, home grown feel to it. He puts in the effort to clearly label everything, and the carrying case is well thought out, and everything fits like a charm. I decided to go with the Apex 4 Kit. http://www.edgeproinc.com/Apex-Model-Edge-Pro-System/Apex-4-kit-p7.html
From the website: Apex Model Edge Pro Sharpening system, 120 Grit coarse, 220 Grit Medium Fine, 320 Grit Fine, 600 Grit Extra Fine, 1000 Grit Ultra Fine Water stones, 1 pack of 15 2000 & 1 pack of 15 3000 Grit Polish tapes, 2- Polish tape mounting blanks, 8" 1200 Grit Ceramic Hone, Instructional DVD, Instructional Manual, Cloth, & Water bottle enclosed in a black Cordura Carrying case.
My first impression of the unit was that it was well thought out, meticulously packed, and lightweight. I thought the base unit was made of aluminum, but it was actually made from plastic - machined plastic, not molded. The instructional DVD's and his Youtube channel do a good job of setting you up, and you can sharpen a knife with great results the first time. I would recommend practicing on a couple lesser knives first though.
I sharpened a Kershaw Blur Tanto to a mirror finish, although it isnt perfect, I know I can do better with more time spent. This is an everyday blade for me, so I dont want to go crazy with it anyways, because I would prefer to keep the resharpening time down. The tanto blades you have to do in two seperate setups so it is time consuming.
I sharpened my Wushtof chef's knife and I was able to remove a couple chips my wife put in the blade a couple years back starting out with the 220 grit stone, finishing with the 600 grit, and the ceramic honing rod. 600 grit seems to be ideal for kitchen knives.
As far as my Gerber LMF II, that was another story. I am still working on this one, because the tip was ground from the factory kind of poorly, although it will still cut. I am waiting for my diamond stone to come in to take more metal at a faster rate.
Homemade knife - I started putting a brand new edge on a homemade knife made in our shop at work a long time ago. There were no angles on the knife at all, so I was starting fresh. I literally destroyed the 120 grit stone, and I now need to flatten it. This blade is hard as rock, and like I said, I was taking mega stock off of it. Keep in mind, these are inexpensive water stones, so they are pretty cheap.
Hunting knife - I was able to put a perfect and semi polished edge on my drop point Outdoor Edge Swingblade, which was better than the factory edge. This knife was challenging because it didn't fit the typical knife profile. Once you get the setup, it is easy though.
Kitchen Cleaver - Easy as pie. Not much to say here.
Random crap knife laying around the house - made it sharp enough to shave, but becase it is a crap knife, it won't hold the edge long.
The skinny on the Apex is this. The magic is in the strategy and setup. The angles are adjustable, so spend the time on each knife and get the angle right. Put painters tape on the edge of the machine, so you can see when you are stoning plastic away by accident. Also put some marker on the guide clips for the same reason. I took a good chamfer off the guide clip because you just can't see it coming off. I do wish I splurged on the Professional model, but the Apex will do fine for many years to come.
I just purchased a 3 pack of clips for $1.00, so I have spares and a bag of silicone carbide for flattening stones. I did not opt for the whole flattening kit, because I have scrap glass in the garage I will use for flattening my stones. I also purchased a fine diamond stone for hard and ceramic blades. I purchased a spare 120 grit stone, because I have alot of old knives that need alot of work, so I will put them through hell. I also like the ceramic hone so much, I purchased an extra hone with the wooden handle for the house, so I can leave the travel hone in my kit.
Regarding the video below: the video is quick and dirty, but shows a couple of the knives I sharpened. I only spent about 2 minutes recording it, so its ugly. The cleaver is really sharp but has a few knicks in it, which is why is catches and tears once in awhile. I will make this one brand new when my new 120 stone comes in. The last knife if the tanto I put the mirror finish on. It looks hazy, but the part a second before I cut the paper with the knife, you can see the reflection of the camera on the edge.
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The only thing I ant stand is when a factory edge is consistently wide but not consistent on angle. To make a consistent angle you end up taking alot of material depending on how bad the knife was to begin with from the factory. I need to buy a new 120 stone and the leveling kit.
I am finding myself frustrated sharpening small knives that aren't fully flat ground as I can't get them to not rock so much. Just put a mirror edge on my esee4 though and oh boy is it sweet.
I pre-ordered a Wicked Edge pro kit a few weeks ago, so in the future, I will compare and contrast the 2 systems. It seems like both systems CAN do anything but they excel differently.
I have also got into hand stropping on a leather strop with Bark river silicone carbide (black), and chromium oxide (green) compounds. I then learned how to hand sharpen convex edges with the mousepads method and metalworkers emory paper, 3m polishing films, and metalworkers sanpapers. I like the differences of a jig with controlled angles, and good old fashioned hanf sharpening. I definitely have the sharpening bug.
I have also got into hand stropping on a leather strop with Bark river silicone carbide (black), and chromium oxide (green) compounds. I then learned how to hand sharpen convex edges with the mousepads method and metalworkers emory paper, 3m polishing films, and metalworkers sanpapers. I like the differences of a jig with controlled angles, and good old fashioned hanf sharpening. I definitely have the sharpening bug.
Well, I have had the Wicked Edge system for almost a month, and I have got to say, I love it. Both systems are like choosing between your children. They both CAN do anything, but they both excel differently. My comparison will be the Edge Pro Apex kit 4, VS. the Wicked Edge Pro Pack 1.
Edge Pro Kit 4
Wicked Edge Pro Pack 1 - major items not shown is the paperstone base, and the additional stones.
Cost: Winner: Edge Pro - The Edge Pro Apex model is much less expensive than the Wicked Edge. Most of this cost is that for the Wicked Edge, you are buying 2 of every grit stone, and they are diamond stones, which are more expensive than the inexpensive boride waterstones with the Edge Pro. The Wicked Edge will run you $390 for the Pro Pack 1, and the Kit 4 Edge Pro will run you $245. To put them both on the same playing field of ability, add the Ceramic stones to the Wicked Edge, however, you are adding more cost.
Speed: Winner: Wicked Edge - You are not flipping the knife, and you are not changing stances. You can get into a rhythm, and fly through knives when looking for a utility edge. You can sit down, relax and sharpen.
Quality: tie - Both products are made well. All of the accessories are well though out, with one exception. The flimsy blade holder for the Wicked Edge is bad. I really do not like it.
Full flat ground blades: Winner: Edge Pro - The Wicked Edge does FFG well, but requires a small special setup to hold the knife. You dont have to do it on chef's knives, I am speaking of thick pocket knives that are FFG, that a vise can't quite grab. The Wicked Edge will still be faster overall, but you just need to spend a little time that you do not spend with the Edge Pro
Parallel faces on spine of knife: Winner: Wicked Edge - Clamp it, find the sweet spot and go. The sweet spot is how the stones curve over the belly. There is an alignment gage to find the sweet spot and record it for future use.
Thin, flexible knives: Winner: Edge Pro - Length doesn't matter with the Edge Pro, because you are constantly putting the part being sharpened on the table, so there is no flexing of the knife away from the stone. This is the biggest downfall of the Wicked Edge.
Large thick knives: Winner: Wicked Edge - sturdy hold, super fast
Large thin knives: Winner: Edge Pro - same reasons as thin, flexible knives
Mirror Polish: Tie - Both systems give you great polishes. The Wicked Edge has to break in, as in, the stones need to wear in, and get better with time. The Edge Pro stones, are better out of the box, but both systems give great polished edge, with a slight edge on the Edge Pro, but not enough to call it a clear winner. My tip with the Wicked Edge when using the leather strops and diamond paste is to work the edge, and wipe any compound off the bevel every few strokes until it stops coming off the leather. The compound will cause a skating rink effect, and the leather will not work the steel, but instead slide around the compound and do nothing. Once it soaks into the leather, and the excess stops coming off, you will get great polish. The Edge Pro Tapes down to 6000 grit (additional purchase for 6000) on glass blanks provide a little better look on some steels, but it is a trade off either system. They are pretty equal.
Availability of aftermarket stones: Tie - Both systems have many aftermarket options. Shaptons, Choseras, Diamonds, leather, balsa, etc. Wicked Edge Sells the leather, balsa strops, as well as Naniwa Choseras, and diamond sprays. Edge Pro only sells tapes and stock stones, but Chefknivestogo, and Jende Industries can get you the aftermarket stones mounted on EP blanks. The Shaptons for the Wicked Edge are coming soon to the Wicked Edge Website. A full array of Naniwa Choseras for the Edge Pro is $215, mounted on EP blanks. The stones for the EP are thinner than the stones for the WE. A full array of Naniwa Choseras for the Wicked Edge is big bucks, at $570 mounted on WE paddles. The WE Choseras are thicker, and you are buying 2 of every stone, hence the cost. You can also flatten the WE stones on themselves, and on the same grit to each other because of the pairs. I own the EP Choseras, but not the WE Choseras, YET! The Choseras are the Ferrari of waterstones, and are a big upgrade over the Boride stock EP stones.
Sharpness: Tie - Both systems can produce equal results without a doubt. I still employ a kniveplus strop block, which is my favorite strop, and a Spyderco Sharpmaker Ulltra Fine stone for burr removal, and touch ups.
Additional info - When the Edge Pro doesn't work it is F***ING maddening. Some knives just do not seat right, but if you check bladeforums or Youtube, you can find solutions to most problems. Both systems benefit with some additional tools. Sharpie Markers, spritz water sprayers, illuminated eye loupes, alcohol wipes, paper towels, good lighting, and one last thing for both systems, an iGaging angle cube. If you want precise angles get this cube from http://www.chefknivestogo.com/anglecube.html and get crazy precise results.
Sharpener specific gear:
Edge Pro - get this: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/5drstcowhexk.html . This solves the accuracy of angles when the stones wear down and get flattened and are different thicknesses. Watch the video attached to the website to buy the collar to explain it better.
Also, the glass polishing blanks are dead flat and worth it in my book.
Wicked Edge - Loctite Purple 222MS . I do not use the dimple side of the angle readings. I spin the arms to the other side, and put some of this small screw, low strength purple loctite on the screw and it is just enough to stop the screw from backing off, and you do not need the screws to be super tight. Using the back side of the rail allows infinite adjustment for improved accuracy.
The future: I will most likely upgrade to an Edge Pro Professional some day. I have turned this into a small business of sharpening knives, just to pay for the equipment, so I can buy it for my own uses, and not have a ton of additional cost to have good stuff. I will also buy either the Shaptons or Choseras for the WE too.
I am happy with both purchases, and will keep both systems, although I did hope to sell one, I just can't. I love them both. They are a nice addition to the Spyderco sharpmaker and my bench stones.
Edit:
Customer Service: Winner: Wicked Edge (slight edge) - Both Ben Dale at Edge Pro, and Clay Allison of the Wicked Edge are two of the best guys when it comes to customer service. They are direct competitors, but they appreciate the competitive spirit of each others' products. Ben and Clay are both available to be called or emailed, and both are knife and sharpening nerds (in a good way), and are happy to talk to enthusiasts. Clay is a little more open to improvements over his stock diamond stones and leather strops, which is why he sells the Choseras, soon to be available Shaptons, and his awesome balsa strops, and diamond sprays. Ben sticks to his guns on the stock EP stones and lapping films. He doesnt believe anything else out there is worth replacing his stock stones. I think this is a blind spot of his, because tons of people are upgrading their stones, and he is losing out on the sales. The edge up, no pun intended on customer service, goes to Wicked Edge, because they have a small forum community, and I like that for obvious reasons. It is a small forums, with no more than 20-30 posts per week to keep up on. Ben and Clay both get A+ in my book, but Clay offers more options and a forum, so he gets extra credit.
Edge Pro Kit 4
Wicked Edge Pro Pack 1 - major items not shown is the paperstone base, and the additional stones.
Cost: Winner: Edge Pro - The Edge Pro Apex model is much less expensive than the Wicked Edge. Most of this cost is that for the Wicked Edge, you are buying 2 of every grit stone, and they are diamond stones, which are more expensive than the inexpensive boride waterstones with the Edge Pro. The Wicked Edge will run you $390 for the Pro Pack 1, and the Kit 4 Edge Pro will run you $245. To put them both on the same playing field of ability, add the Ceramic stones to the Wicked Edge, however, you are adding more cost.
Speed: Winner: Wicked Edge - You are not flipping the knife, and you are not changing stances. You can get into a rhythm, and fly through knives when looking for a utility edge. You can sit down, relax and sharpen.
Quality: tie - Both products are made well. All of the accessories are well though out, with one exception. The flimsy blade holder for the Wicked Edge is bad. I really do not like it.
Full flat ground blades: Winner: Edge Pro - The Wicked Edge does FFG well, but requires a small special setup to hold the knife. You dont have to do it on chef's knives, I am speaking of thick pocket knives that are FFG, that a vise can't quite grab. The Wicked Edge will still be faster overall, but you just need to spend a little time that you do not spend with the Edge Pro
Parallel faces on spine of knife: Winner: Wicked Edge - Clamp it, find the sweet spot and go. The sweet spot is how the stones curve over the belly. There is an alignment gage to find the sweet spot and record it for future use.
Thin, flexible knives: Winner: Edge Pro - Length doesn't matter with the Edge Pro, because you are constantly putting the part being sharpened on the table, so there is no flexing of the knife away from the stone. This is the biggest downfall of the Wicked Edge.
Large thick knives: Winner: Wicked Edge - sturdy hold, super fast
Large thin knives: Winner: Edge Pro - same reasons as thin, flexible knives
Mirror Polish: Tie - Both systems give you great polishes. The Wicked Edge has to break in, as in, the stones need to wear in, and get better with time. The Edge Pro stones, are better out of the box, but both systems give great polished edge, with a slight edge on the Edge Pro, but not enough to call it a clear winner. My tip with the Wicked Edge when using the leather strops and diamond paste is to work the edge, and wipe any compound off the bevel every few strokes until it stops coming off the leather. The compound will cause a skating rink effect, and the leather will not work the steel, but instead slide around the compound and do nothing. Once it soaks into the leather, and the excess stops coming off, you will get great polish. The Edge Pro Tapes down to 6000 grit (additional purchase for 6000) on glass blanks provide a little better look on some steels, but it is a trade off either system. They are pretty equal.
Availability of aftermarket stones: Tie - Both systems have many aftermarket options. Shaptons, Choseras, Diamonds, leather, balsa, etc. Wicked Edge Sells the leather, balsa strops, as well as Naniwa Choseras, and diamond sprays. Edge Pro only sells tapes and stock stones, but Chefknivestogo, and Jende Industries can get you the aftermarket stones mounted on EP blanks. The Shaptons for the Wicked Edge are coming soon to the Wicked Edge Website. A full array of Naniwa Choseras for the Edge Pro is $215, mounted on EP blanks. The stones for the EP are thinner than the stones for the WE. A full array of Naniwa Choseras for the Wicked Edge is big bucks, at $570 mounted on WE paddles. The WE Choseras are thicker, and you are buying 2 of every stone, hence the cost. You can also flatten the WE stones on themselves, and on the same grit to each other because of the pairs. I own the EP Choseras, but not the WE Choseras, YET! The Choseras are the Ferrari of waterstones, and are a big upgrade over the Boride stock EP stones.
Sharpness: Tie - Both systems can produce equal results without a doubt. I still employ a kniveplus strop block, which is my favorite strop, and a Spyderco Sharpmaker Ulltra Fine stone for burr removal, and touch ups.
Additional info - When the Edge Pro doesn't work it is F***ING maddening. Some knives just do not seat right, but if you check bladeforums or Youtube, you can find solutions to most problems. Both systems benefit with some additional tools. Sharpie Markers, spritz water sprayers, illuminated eye loupes, alcohol wipes, paper towels, good lighting, and one last thing for both systems, an iGaging angle cube. If you want precise angles get this cube from http://www.chefknivestogo.com/anglecube.html and get crazy precise results.
Sharpener specific gear:
Edge Pro - get this: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/5drstcowhexk.html . This solves the accuracy of angles when the stones wear down and get flattened and are different thicknesses. Watch the video attached to the website to buy the collar to explain it better.
Also, the glass polishing blanks are dead flat and worth it in my book.
Wicked Edge - Loctite Purple 222MS . I do not use the dimple side of the angle readings. I spin the arms to the other side, and put some of this small screw, low strength purple loctite on the screw and it is just enough to stop the screw from backing off, and you do not need the screws to be super tight. Using the back side of the rail allows infinite adjustment for improved accuracy.
The future: I will most likely upgrade to an Edge Pro Professional some day. I have turned this into a small business of sharpening knives, just to pay for the equipment, so I can buy it for my own uses, and not have a ton of additional cost to have good stuff. I will also buy either the Shaptons or Choseras for the WE too.
I am happy with both purchases, and will keep both systems, although I did hope to sell one, I just can't. I love them both. They are a nice addition to the Spyderco sharpmaker and my bench stones.
Edit:
Customer Service: Winner: Wicked Edge (slight edge) - Both Ben Dale at Edge Pro, and Clay Allison of the Wicked Edge are two of the best guys when it comes to customer service. They are direct competitors, but they appreciate the competitive spirit of each others' products. Ben and Clay are both available to be called or emailed, and both are knife and sharpening nerds (in a good way), and are happy to talk to enthusiasts. Clay is a little more open to improvements over his stock diamond stones and leather strops, which is why he sells the Choseras, soon to be available Shaptons, and his awesome balsa strops, and diamond sprays. Ben sticks to his guns on the stock EP stones and lapping films. He doesnt believe anything else out there is worth replacing his stock stones. I think this is a blind spot of his, because tons of people are upgrading their stones, and he is losing out on the sales. The edge up, no pun intended on customer service, goes to Wicked Edge, because they have a small forum community, and I like that for obvious reasons. It is a small forums, with no more than 20-30 posts per week to keep up on. Ben and Clay both get A+ in my book, but Clay offers more options and a forum, so he gets extra credit.
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Another sharpening item I am in love with is this strop block from Knives Plus. JDavis882 on Youtube and bladeforums recommended this strop block, and it is a really nice strop block. It is preloaded with Green Chromium Oxide compound, is super soft, and gives me tree topping sharpness. Beware though, this strop is so soft, use less pressure than the weight of the knife or you will dull the edge.
http://www.knivesplus.com/KP-STROP8-STROPBLOCK.html
http://www.knivesplus.com/KP-STROP8-STROPBLOCK.html
