Reloading for the 1895 Nagant 7.62x38R Revolver

[55_grain]

For your amusement, here is my attempt at making cartridges that work in a model 1895 Nagant revolver.

I am using the following:
110-grain plated .308" projectiles (really .30 carbine bullets)
.30 carbine dies from Hornady
Win231 powder
Once-fired Hotshot-brand 7.62x38R brass

This is a Nagant. The gentleman here is trying to overcome the considerable double-action trigger weight.

My master plan! I can only seat the projectiles so deep with .30 carbine dies before it crimps them; this drives how much I have to cut back the cases.

The process. I made some initial rounds by trimming with my pipe-cutter and deburring with the usual chamfer tool. The case lengths are probably within .015" of each other, not exactly match grade.

Group pic.
L-R: .32 S&W short, .32 S&W long, factory 7.62x38, 3 of my reloads, another factory 7.62x38.
Front: a fired 7.62x38 projo, and my projos I used for my loads.

I made 3 rounds each of 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, and 3.5g of W231.

------------------------------------------------------------------
1st range report!

Sort of.

Soo..I started with the 2.0 grain load after a couple rounds of "Hotshot" factory loads. Shot the first one. Really weak report & recoil. No hole in target (15 yards). Took the cylinder out to check that the barrel was clear - OK. Reassembled.

2nd shot...no hole in target. BULLET STUCK IN BARREL, about 1.5" from top. Some unburned powder. End of Nagant shooting for the day!

The bullet was easily removed at home with a unsharpened wooden pencil and some light taps from a hammer. Overall diameter is still .308", measures .301 across the rifling lands.

Conclusions:
1. Reloading for obscure cartridges isn't as straightforward as say, 9mm.
2. It's good to start low, but 2.0 grains of Win231 is not enough. The primer probably flared over the powder in the mostly-empty case.
3. Adding the pencil to my range bag for next time.

------------------------------------------------------------------
2nd range report!

Fired 3 each of the following loads 2.5, 3.0, and 3.5g of Win231 with the 110 grain plated .30 carbine bullets.

All fired just fine and generated adequate groups, though I was more concerned about stuck bullets then accuracy at the time. The 3.5g load is still lighter-recoiling (no chrono, sorry) than the Hotshot factory ammo. All cases extracted easily, no flattening of primers, etc. I will make the next batch with 4.0 grains of W231.

Fired my last round of 2.0 grains, too. Stuck in the barrel again, removed with the pencil that's now part of my official Nagant range kit.

I adapted my Lee trimmer to work on my custom length case by cutting down and filing the end of a regular pan-head screw until it was the right length when screwed into the Lee cutter. Not perfect by any means, but it's an upgrade from the pipecutter only approach. Plus the pan head slot deburrs the flash hole.

-------------------------------------------------------------
3rd Range Report!

Fired 12 rounds with 4.0 grains of W231 - no issues. Perceived recoil is "similar" to Hotshot factory.
Fired 3 rounds with 4.5 grains of W231 - no issues. Feels a little stouter than the factory ammo.

I plan to use the 4.0 load until I have an opportunity to borrow a chrono and see how fast they're going.

The load documented here works fine in *my* 1930's Nagant. YMMV. Start low and work up if you duplicate it for your own Nagant.

Hope you found this informative and/or entertaining. I did!

55_grain

 

[coastie]

I have played with this cartridge a little. I used some .32 Hornady lead wadcutters and Unique with the original Starline brass. I cant remember what the load was but I got decent accuracy. I had originally tried to load with the WC below the edge of the case and then I tried to make the gas seal. I gave up and just loaded them flush as I figured I was working the brass pretty hard and really didnt see a difference. I will try to dig up the load tonight if I remember.

 

[highlander]

IIRC you can make brass from 32/20 cases. They may be a little short but should work.

 

[55_grain]

IIRC you can make brass from 32/20 cases. They may be a little short but should work.

Yep. The Lee 7.62x38R dies are made specifically for using .32-20 cases
http://leeprecision.com/xcart/3-DIE-SET-7.62-NAGANT.html

 

[55_grain]

Bump with chrono data!

All data taken on the same day, about 10' from muzzle.

Hotshot 98gr factory FPJ
Ave.......631fps
ES..........27
SD.........11
n=..........6

55_grain's load with Win231:
.........3.5grains....4.0 grains....4.5 grains
Ave....533...........674...........763
ES.....88.............71 ............99
SD.... -...............28..............-
n=.....4...............6...............4

Conclusions:
1. D@mn, but the factory ammo is slow. That's half the speed of a heavier 115-grain 9mm!

2. All three of my loads had large extreme spreads, possibly caused by the small volume of powder rattling around in a big empty case. I could probably tighten these up if I had a "bulkier" powder such as Trailboss (looks like "Cheerios" with a big hollow center). I've read that some people get around this by filling up the empty space with cornmeal, or cotton, or some other fluffy inert material to keep the powder at the bottom of the case, but I've already tread about as far from published loads as I want to go at this point in my reloading.

3. My 4.0 grain load has been printing accurate groups on paper, and seems like a conservative load, so I'll probably keep making more of those for now. It keeps my old revolver in action...at a cost of about $7.18/box of 50.

Hope you found this informative or at least entertaining!

55_grain

 

[The Goose]

I do not shoot or load this round, but what a great post. Thanks.

 

[FSTC]

Thanks for the data!

 

[ARV]

double post.

 

[ARV]

Thanks for the data, just picked up a random box of 50 someplace, so I have some brass that'll last a while. Need dies now.

 

[55_grain]

I do not shoot or load this round, but what a great post. Thanks.

Thanks for the data!

Thanks for the data, just picked up a random box of 50 someplace, so I have some brass that'll last a while. Need dies now.

Thanks, guys. I'm using Hornady .30-carbine dies for this. LEE makes 7.62x38R dies, but they're for resizing .32-30 brass, I dun't know how well they'd work on regular Nagant brass.

 

[ARV]

I looked at their site, and it says:

These dies will not work with original 7.62 Nagant brass. These dies will only work with 32-20 Starline brass.

 

[55_grain]

Minor updates:

1. I shot some of my rounds with 4.8 gr W231. No chrono data, but I'd bet it's under 850fps. No issues.

2. I also shot some of the milsurp Russian ammo that's recently made the market. Not the yellow-box target ammo, but the 14-round plain cardboard boxed stuff that I got thru the NES distribution network. (thanks, guys) Report and recoil did not appear to exceed my handloads, but the cartridges were a bitch to extract, really had to bang on the official #2 reloading tool (pencil). It wasn't because of fouling from my own loads, as I'd only shot 7 of mine in a clean gun.

Will plan to chrono both of these at a later time.

55_grain

 

[EddieCoyle]

Try Titegroup. It's less position-sensitive than 231.

 

[55_grain]

Try Titegroup. It's less position-sensitive than 231.

How about AA#2? It has a similar burn rate as Titegroup...and I already have some.

I've seen other shooters who have used Trailboss, as it fills up the case nicely.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I've never used AA#2 or tried Trailboss with a jacketed bullet.

 

[Patriot]

How about AA#2? It has a similar burn rate as Titegroup...and I already have some.

I've seen other shooters who have used Trailboss, as it fills up the case nicely.

Email the ballistician at Accurate.

Johan Loubser
[email protected]

 

[nheric]

i use trail boss under jacketed bullets for some of my older milsurp rifles, and a century old Winchester 94 with no problems

 

[55_grain]

I've never used AA#2 or tried Trailboss with a jacketed bullet.

I use AA#2 for .380 with plated bullets.

Email the ballistician at Accurate.

Johan Loubser
[email protected]

Thanks! I'm guessing he's not going to go on record recommending me a powder for a not-in-any-book cartridge.

I finally got around to buying my own chrony, so I'll measure the military surplus rounds and my 4.8g W231 load in the near future.

 

[55_grain]

Minor updates:

1. I shot some of my rounds with 4.8 gr W231. No chrono data, but I'd bet it's under 850fps. No issues.

2. I also shot some of the milsurp Russian ammo that's recently made the market. Not the yellow-box target ammo, but the 14-round plain cardboard boxed stuff that I got thru the NES distribution network. (thanks, guys) Report and recoil did not appear to exceed my handloads, but the cartridges were a bitch to extract, really had to bang on the official #2 reloading tool (pencil). It wasn't because of fouling from my own loads, as I'd only shot 7 of mine in a clean gun.

Will plan to chrono both of these at a later time.

55_grain

I finally got around to chrono some more Nagant loads!

Repeat of my previous load of 4.5grains of W231
110gr plated .30 carbine bullet
Ave.......747 fps (basically, same as my previously-reported 763 fps from post #5)
ES..........91
SD.........34
n=..........6

New handload:
4.5 gr W231, same 110gr plated .30 carbine bullet, full-length case with bullet seated flush with lip of case
Ave.......920fps
ES..........60
SD.........27
n=..........4
So, that's very interesting (to me, anyway). A full 173 fps improvement by using a full-length cartridge that gets a gas seal against the barrel. Unlike my previous load, it also doesn't (duh!) have any flash in the cylinder-barrel gap. A much more efficient use of the powder!

And finally, the 1978 Soviet FMJ ammo (thanks NES distribution network!)

Ave.......853fps
ES..........84
SD.........30
n=..........6
Wikipedia says this stuff is 1070 fps. My chony begs to differ. Still wouldn't want to get shot with it.

Looks like more experimentation with the full-length case is in order.

55_grain