Questions re: Survival/Bug out vehicle engines and equipment

[Rider]

I'm thinking about a truck for weekends, camping, etc, and one that could potentially be used for bugging out. I like the F150, but have a few considerations that I'd like opinions on.

First, it seems to me that almost any vehicle built in the last 10-15 years has some sort of ECU and electronics that would make it a big box of metal in an EMP situation. An older standard ignition vehicle might fare better, but I think you'd have to go back to the 70's to get such a vehicle. Heck, even Harley's have electronic ignitions and EFI now. So my thinking is that on the one hand, having a truck could be useful, on the other hand, in an EMP scenario, you are either bugging in, or you are on foot/horseback.

Second, in looking at the Ford F150, which seems to be the breed standard for good work trucks, I am stuck on engine choices. The Eco-boost seems like a great idea, and gets great mileage on the highway with no load, but when towing, driven hard, or under load, it gets about the same mileage as the V8(though it is a little faster). My thinking is that the V8 would likely last longer, cost less to maintain, and be easier to service and repair than a twin-turbo V6 in almost any situation where you aren't dealing with a full shop and warranty service. Besides which, turbos eventually fail, and cost a ton to replace. So I like the V6, but think the V8 makes better sense, especially if we are talking about keeping the truck for 15-20 years, which we are.

Finally, I assume that virtually all new vehicles have GPS integrated into their brains. Is there a means to disable these, or to ensure that you cannot be tracked by evildoers with the appropriate technology?

Your thoughts and opinions are welcome.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

If you are worried about EMP's, turbo maintenance, and three letter agencies tracking your truck, buy an older truck. Otherwise, if I were in the market for a brand new truck, I think the Ford with a V8 would get my money.

 

[Andy in NH]

When my current plow / yard truck dies I'm getting one of these: Commercial Utility Cargo Vehicle.

It might satisfy your requirements also.

 

[Jamie]

If you are worried about EMP's, turbo maintenance, and three letter agencies tracking your truck, buy an older truck. Otherwise, if I were in the market for a brand new truck, I think the Ford with a V8 would get my money.

This.

EMP concern: Get an old 12 valve diesel..Maintained, they run forever. Second place: Dirtbike and a nice internal frame backpack.

Turbo maintenance: A properly maintained turbo will last the life of the engine.

New truck choice: I prefer Toyota, but Ford runs second.

 

[Archilochus]

I'd go with something older - 'cause any fairly skilled mech with a box of the usual tools can fix it.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

When my current plow / yard truck dies I'm getting one of these: Commercial Utility Cargo Vehicle.

It might satisfy your requirements also.

I really want one of the Blazers with the diesels in it.

 

[Rider]

Turbo maintenance: A properly maintained turbo will last the life of the engine.

New truck choice: I prefer Toyota, but Ford runs second.

I have a turbo engine now, but it is of the 'been built for 18 years' variety. It isn't that I don't trust them, it is that this is a brand new engine, and the 5.0 liter V8 has been built in some form for over 40. So I am thinking that replacement parts and costs would be lower. Simply, I don't see finding a spare turbo or two as easily as finding a replacement part for a normally aspirated V8. (Note, if all goes well, or you trade in after 50,000 miles, this isn't even an issue, and I would probably get the Eco-boost for the fun factor.)

As far as Toyota goes, I love the Tundra, and have been planning on getting one for years. I think it looks better than all the other trucks, and they have a good reputation. But as push comes to shove, the Toyota doesn't have a locking rear diff, and you can only get a sunroof in the Crew Cab model with the short bed. It may be silly, but I like sunroofs, and long beds, and I would have to spend about $46K on a Tundra CrewMax Limited with a short bed to have a sunroof option. Meanwhile, the F150 FX4 is available with a 6-1/2 foot bed and sunroof, off-road package, etc for $43k and better mileage rating. Neither is cheap, but the Ford seems to offer a configuration closer to what I'm looking for than Toyota, and for less money, as much as it pains me to say it.

On additional factor I should have mentioned: towing capacity is a real-life issue, as we are horse-folk, and if we have trailering capability, we would likely take advantage of that.

 

[Fixxah]

^ ^ ^ ^
Meals on wheels.
Sent from the Hyundai of the droids, the Samsung Replenish, using Tapatalk.

 

[Bill Katt]

This...

or this...

 

[ChevyGuy91]

One of those would be so awesome to have.

 

[Bill Katt]

A friend of mine had one (the GMC) some years back. He used it a lot for camping out in the middle of nowhere when he lived in New Mexico. He might still have it but I'm not sure. I doubt it though because he lives in Queens NY or around that area these days. They were a cool design though but unfortunately not popular. They were only produced in '77 & '78 I think.

 

[Business]

what are your thoughts on gas vs diesel for a bug out truck? theres more gas stations than diesel as well as more cars on the road that being dead from the EMP will have gas to scavenge from plus you dont need to worry about block heaters

 

[Rider]

I think that diesel does have some advantages: diesel engines last forever, in theory get better gas mileage(in a truck or large vehicle), and diesel fuel lasts a long time and can be improvised.

I am not considering diesel simply because the diesel option in F150's means upgrading to an F250 and adding $10k to an already astonishing number. Further, while I know little about diesel engines, apparently there is a regeneration process or something like that to burn off built up carbon, and the current generation of Ford diesels get really bad mileage because this process is constantly running for some reason. At least, that is what I have read on the Ford/Diesel forums. If I was looking at Ram trucks, I'd definitely consider one with a Cummins turbo diesel engine.

 

[sportycliff]

Everyone who has oil heat has fuel for a diesel...

 

[newportri]

Diesel is a great option since they are reliable and last a long time, and you can even make you own fuel if you would have to. You don't have to worry about electronics and as long as they get oxygen they will drive. It's pretty cool seeing vehicles in places like Africa with snorkels mounted on them driving in water up to the hood...
Unfortunately, there are not a lot of diesel vehicles in the US, so you options are a little limited. I have a 2005 Jeep Liberty Diesel and it's great. Unfortunately, they only made them in 2005 and 2006. You can get them for about $10k now I believe. In 2008 the Grand Cherokee had an option for Diesel, but I don't know if it's still available.

 

[OPM]

1. Why would you BO after EMP??? Where to??? Unless it’s only a local area disaster or you have a strong support group elsewhere – I am not sure why you’d want to leave.

2. EMP would be the least of my concerns in choosing a BOV. EMP is a general term, kind of like electricity. There is no such thing as specific EMP. The range of frequencies is nearly infinite – the source influences the power output, altitude, etc. This makes testing for EMP difficult, but many industries and militaries do. There are a number of reports you can find of the web for car testing for EMP attacks. Modern cars are well shielded and grounded. Based on numerous tests and a significant range of likely frequencies they seem to be impervious to EMP scenarios. Most won’t even stall, few that will, will restart right away. Furthermore, the whole EMP thing is so extremely unlikely, that one would be better of planning his life around winning a lottery than the need to deal with EMP attack.

3. Invasion of privacy is a serious problem. Yes, all new cars have so called black box, actually a few black boxes. TTBOMK they are not designed to be readable from distance, but gov has plenty of ways to track you even in an old truck. Most new tires have RFID, there are video cameras on most intersections and few other less known methods which I prefer not to write about. Thus, if they want you, they will have you.

4. Gas vs. diesel – easy – diesel all the way. Better fuel economy, better towing capacity, better longevity and better reliability. Fuel stores longer and can be found everywhere, including big rigs, tractors, boats, trains, large generators, heating systems, restaurants and most gas stations.

5. IMHO, BOV musts, in order of priority 1) be reliable, 2) have a great fuel economy, 3) have capacity to carry your predetermined load, 4) run on various fuel sources, 5) bland-in, 6) be cheap/easy to repair and find spare parts, 7) 4x4, 8) off-road capability including water crossing, 9)used frequently and better yet be your DD, and 10) be comfortable. Notice that off-road capabilities are rather low on the priority list. It’s because outside of major flooding or snowstorm you won’t need it.

6. Not sure what camping has to do with BOV. Drive until it’s safe and then get a hotel room. Worse case, spending a night in the car (almost any car) is not a big deal. If it’s a long term disaster – rent. The minor advantages of having a camper are totally outweighed by the disadvantages. However, if you want a camper for camping, some guy in Lancaster is selling what seems to be a nice condition 1968 KAISER JEEP M-725. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968...8230?pt=Military_Vehicles&hash=item3cbd438b96) with some money and time it can be turned into a sweet camper.

7. IMHO, CUCV M1008, M1009, M1028, M1010, etc., make a bad choice as BOV for most people. They fail nearly every criterion. Unless you are a farmer, no one wants to drive them. They are too slow, too loud, uncomfortable, not fuel efficient – if purchased those trucks will be sitting unused collecting dirt and rust. Cars that sit for longtime lose reliability. Any car is better than the one which is not running. They will manage traversing shallow water, small fallen tree branches and snow better than a sedan, but nothing special when compared to other 4x4s including even some minivans. Either way, one should try his best to avoid crossing water or traversing logs while evacuating.

 

[Rider]

@OPM

Not really a lot to reply with. Thanks for the response.

I guess the EMP concern is driven primarily by the fact that it is a popular motif today in the military/strategic space, the solar/astronomical space, and within the 'OMG TS is about to HTF My Hair is on FIRE!!!' community. My expectation is that if it happens, most everything will be cooked and as you say, a bug in is likely.

For many of the reasons you point out, I lean towards an American made V8 powered truck. It may not tick all the boxes you specify, but it gets most of the way there. It might not have great fuel economy, but it will have good range. I am not too sure about diesel. (I know it is desirable for a number of reasons, but would have a few drawbacks for me in daily use.) Best of all, assuming that I could find a shop with parts, I could do a lot of repairs on a V8 myself. As mentioned previously, I am a bit apprehensive about the newer trucks mainly because all the electronics are expensive, not easy to replace, and not likely to be in stock.

At the end of the day, I am hoping that prepping turns out to be a quirk I am remembered for, and not something that defines me, so the main reason for buying a truck is utility and tailgating(i.e. test-run) capabilities. ;p

 

[Patriot0717]

This how my clan rolls

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

Get something with a carb and points and condenser ignition, circa 1960's.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

This how my clan rolls

View attachment 21496

Can't officially be called "technicals" without the mandatory white Toyota pickup.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

as far as gas vs diesel goes, ide go diesel all the way. when the disaster of our century struck, hurricane irene. i noticed something, alot of our local gas stations were out of gas, but still had plenty of diesel. something to think about.

i have an 06 f350 diesel as my primary and a 96 cherokee as my daily driver. i also have a 1972 gmc 2500 that is carb'd so i guess ide be ok if there was an EMP. i REALLY want a deuce and a half...

 

[excoastie]

I have been shopping for a bobbed deuce and a half. Prices vary all over the place depending upon what you get. There is a guy in MA that has a couple for around $6500.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

I have been shopping for a bobbed deuce and a half. Prices vary all over the place depending upon what you get. There is a guy in MA that has a couple for around $6500.

kinda wanna sell my mustang for one haha

 

[PaulD]

This:

http://bringatrailer.com/2011/09/30/serbian-border-patroller-1986-tam-110/

 

[Patriot0717]

This:

http://bringatrailer.com/2011/09/30/serbian-border-patroller-1986-tam-110/

Whoa! Hell ya!

 

[OPM]

Nice TAM, but if I to go Eastern European route, I’d get KAMAZ. I’ve been dreaming of getting one for years. Watching footage of Dakar does that.

However, around here more practical and arguably better choice is Unimog, Volvo C303 or Pinzgauer. Phenomenal engineering, outstanding capabilities in a “right” size package, tough as nails and who does not love portal axles. With some work and love these would make an awesome camper.

Deuce is a romantic choice. I mean who does not get a boner hearing a “whistler”? Every other year I’ve been planning to get one as project for camper/expedition truck – may be next year. However, as BOV, Deuce is less than optimal. It is slow. It is designed for 50-55mph max. With largest fitting wheels you can get it to 60-65mph area, but running it at 65mph is scary unless brakes are upgraded. The frame is weaker than cooked noodles. So a frame up restoration with lots of rivet removal and welding is advisable. It has zero creature comforts. In the summer it feels like driving a Turkish bath; in the winter it feels like driving a freezer; all while sitting on a steel girder next to a drafty window. Bottom line it takes a lot of effort to turn it into a safe, reliable and fun truck. But it sure looks cool, but IMHO not as cool as Ural-4320.

Of course the real men BO in Hagglund BV206 – like this guy. He will live while the rest of us burn in hell.




While I was grabbing the video from the Hagglund numbnut, I came across a video which kind of speaks to my philosophy on proper BOV.



No, I am not advocating specifically for CRV, but rather the overall philosophy on how to choose BOV.

 

[PaulD]

Tatra > KAMAZ.

You should keep an eye on this site: http://bringatrailer.com/category/truck-4x4/

They have a decent number of Pinzgauers, C303s and similar come up. Personally, I'd like an old extended wheel base Land Cruiser with a diesel conversion.

http://bringatrailer.com/2011/09/29/1980-toyota-land-cruiser-hj47-troopie-diesel/

Nice TAM, but if I to go Eastern European route, I’d get KAMAZ. I’ve been dreaming of getting one for years. Watching footage of Dakar does that.

However, around here more practical and arguably better choice is Unimog, Volvo C303 or Pinzgauer. Phenomenal engineering, outstanding capabilities in a “right” size package, tough as nails and who does not love portal axles. With some work and love these would make an awesome camper.

Deuce is a romantic choice. I mean who does not get a boner hearing a “whistler”? Every other year I’ve been planning to get one as project for camper/expedition truck – may be next year. However, as BOV, Deuce is less than optimal. It is slow. It is designed for 50-55mph max. With largest fitting wheels you can get it to 60-65mph area, but running it at 65mph is scary unless brakes are upgraded. The frame is weaker than cooked noodles. So a frame up restoration with lots of rivet removal and welding is advisable. It has zero creature comforts. In the summer it feels like driving a Turkish bath; in the winter it feels like driving a freezer; all while sitting on a steel girder next to a drafty window. Bottom line it takes a lot of effort to turn it into a safe, reliable and fun truck. But it sure looks cool, but IMHO not as cool as Ural-4320.

Of course the real men BO in Hagglund BV206 – like this guy. He will live while the rest of us burn in hell.




While I was grabbing the video from the Hagglund numbnut, I came across a video which kind of speaks to my philosophy on proper BOV.



No, I am not advocating specifically for CRV, but rather the overall philosophy on how to choose BOV.

 

[OPM]

Tatra > KAMAZ.

Not at Dakar it ain't. But I know what you meant. Building an expedition truck – Tatra platform would be awesome.

BTW, for those with $$$$$$$ UNICAT has some nice prebuilt campers. http://www.unicatamericas.com/vehicles_custom_ex70.html EX70-HD / MAN TGA, talking about home away from home.

 

[CBudz]

If some form of a enormous EMP of unrecordable magnitude were to hit it would fry all electronics, thus anything new and you're SOL. Try removing your OBD and see how far you go. The off roading will come into play because you don't know what's going to happen, on top of supposed EMP perhaps earthquake or riots etc these streets aren't exactly going to stay clean, shit half the time I need my truck just to drive through half the roads in boston. What are you going to do if there are trees knocked down everywhere? I assume GTFO of crowded areas is a top priority so imagine you're paving your own way through the woods..

 

[AllaSnackbah]

my current BOV haha