Questions on building the Ultimate in Home Pump Shotgun

[M60]

Cite, please?

I've had hunters get busted while hunting with me. 7 rounds in while deer hunting. Enviromental police do the busting. They have more power than the Ma. state police. The can stop you while hunting any time they like and they do. They always check your hunting license and if you have a high cap tube they will ask to see the magazine limiter. If you don't have it, you get busted.

 

[M60]

Cite, please?

Just read the law.

 

[MisterHappy]

I've had hunters get busted while hunting with me. 7 rounds in while deer hunting. Enviromental police do the busting. They have more power than the Ma. state police. The can stop you while hunting any time they like and they do. They always check your hunting license and if you have a high cap tube they will ask to see the magazine limiter. If you don't have it, you get busted.

I teach Hunter Ed., and this is new to me. Please provide the cite for deer hunting with a shotgun having a mag limit.

 

[seanc]

You couldn't have looked that hard since a LGS about 10 to 12 miles from you advertises a shockwave.

MOSSBERG 590 SHOCKWAVE 14″ 12 GAUGE – The Gun Parlor

Unless things have changed. Not available from them to mere mass mortals. Leo and out of state transfers only.
I will check tomorrow p. But that had been their policy.

 

[JRT]

Lol. The Gun Parlor...

That Mossberg shockwave is $370 at my LGS. Holy shit that shop is raping people.

 

[MisterHappy]

Just read the law.

I have.

Here's the relevant CMR:

321 CMR 3.00: Hunting

Here's the relevant MGLs:
Chapter 131

Here's from the Abstracts:

Deer hunting regulations

I can't find it.

Your help will be appreciated.

 

[Glockster30]

Unless things have changed. Not available from them to mere mass mortals. Leo and out of state transfers only.
I will check tomorrow p. But that had been their policy.

I've never been there, but after the Glock fiasco with Healey, anything I've seen online that was not MA legal was marked as such. The Shockwave isn't marked. Please let us know if you call or go there (or somewhere else).

That Mossberg shockwave is $370 at my LGS. Holy shit that shop is raping people.

I wasn't suggesting that he shop there. I just found it funny that he was searching for a year and the LGS down the street had one, although seanc said that they were not available for MA buyers in the past.

 

[PatMcD]

The Mossberg Shockwave: the shotgun to use when you dont really care if you hit what you think you're pointing at.

Seriously. Taking the buttstock off of a shotgun just makes it into the worst pointing abomination possible.

 

[fshalor]

Except that any defensive 12ga load will tear through walls like they're made of warm butter.

#4 does a pretty good job of being stopped by two pieces of drywall and some insulation. Does a bit better than a 25 tomcat I think. There's an FBI paper somewhere suggesting using #4 for loads in dicey situations called apartment buildings.

The sweet sauce is .223 vmax 40 ish grain varmit rounds from an AR. The stuff just destroys itself on contact with anything so fast that it had almost no penetration of common wall materials. But it still did good against ballistic gel with Levi's in front of it.

The shock wave cavity was pretty impressive. Compared to .22LR. which had a lot of bouncers since it didn't have enough energy to self destruct like .223 will.

Now back to this magazine thing.. That 590M has basically one role. In a swatt team as a special needs slot. Think the dude who can't shoot straight so he gets the boomstick and has two mag bags.. one with nonleathal rounds and the other with breachers to take out door hinges..

Go tube my friend. Or if you want mags: Go Saiga! And make sure you hook up some speakers and have a switch on the hook you hang the saiga which starts blaring Winterborn by Cruxshadows wheverer you wip it out.

 

[Radtekk]

You couldn't have looked that hard since a LGS about 10 to 12 miles from you advertises a shockwave.

MOSSBERG 590 SHOCKWAVE 14″ 12 GAUGE – The Gun Parlor

Lol. The Gun Parlor...

I'd like one, and would make room in my safe for it, but I wouldn't buy it from TGP for a dollar if they delivered it to my door with a case of assorted ammo and a bottle of Patron Reposado.

 

[whacko]

I teach Hunter Ed., and this is new to me. Please provide the cite for deer hunting with a shotgun having a mag limit.

I'm with mister happy here. I've never read anything about shotgun mag restrictions for deer hunting in mass. I've read the laws through many times. Was never mentioned in hunter Ed either.

 

[kalash]

Yes if it holds more than ten rounds. That would be illegal if it was a pump or not. A magazine fed semi auto shotgun would be an assault weapon no matter how many rounds it held.

Why ten? The law WRT shotgun shells says five.

Okay, I'm going to muck this issue up even more by stating that I'm not sure that it's accurate just to cite this paragraph of MGL as there is no wording wrt a tube being a LCFD other than the disclaimer for a tubular .22 not being one.

The next paragraph after the one you cited states among other criteria that a pump shotgun cannot be a large capacity weapon, so it appears that a tube with more than 5 rounds is not illegal.

Furthermore, this isn't the first thread on this subject. In another thread in 2011, LenS stated in post #10 that Ron Glidden stated that a tube can never be a "LCFD" if integral to the gun (Ron Glidden held seminars on MA gun laws):

Semi auto shotguns restrictions

That is all based on opinion. I don't see anything in the actual law that would except a tube magazine from being considered a LCFD if it holds more rounds than the law calls for. If that was the case then would a lever-action .45-70 with a ridiculously long tube holding 20 rounds be legal?

 

[whacko]

Why ten? The law WRT shotgun shells says five.



That is all based on opinion. I don't see anything in the actual law that would except a tube magazine from being considered a LCFD if it holds more rounds than the law calls for. If that was the case then would a lever-action .45-70 with a ridiculously long tube holding 20 rounds be legal?

My Henry lever action shotgun holds 6 shells........I'm pretty sure as it is tube fed Its not illegal. I have interpreted it to be that the gun had to be semi auto and have a detachable mag to be subject to the 5 shell restriction.......who the f*** knows now.....I'm.more.confused than ever.

 

[Dennis in MA]

return it for a tube fed 590

Or a 15-20yr+ old Remmy 870. Or an old Model 12. Something where the action is like butter. You don't need binding when you're buttcheex are clenched in a battle.

 

[rep308]

When did we have the group buy on the Benelli Super Nova Tactical? I added a weapons light and a mag tube extender to it and I'm done

 

[Glockster30]

Why ten? The law WRT shotgun shells says five.

That is all based on opinion. I don't see anything in the actual law that would except a tube magazine from being considered a LCFD if it holds more rounds than the law calls for. If that was the case then would a lever-action .45-70 with a ridiculously long tube holding 20 rounds be legal?

Since we are talking shotguns, why do MA LGSs sell Keltec KSG shotguns with 12 +1 capacity?

 

[kalash]

Since we are talking shotguns, why do MA LGSs sell Keltec KSG shotguns with 12 +1 capacity?

Don't know, don't care, as that's not the point. They could sell M16s for all I care, doesn't necessarily mean it's legal. The law itself says that a fixed or detachable magazine that holds more than five shot shells is a LCFD. Doesn't say anything about tubular mags or pump guns or anything like that - those are addressed in other sections but they don't appear to be considerations WRT LCFDs. It's stupid, never enforced, and I'd ignore it in a heartbeat but that's how the law reads nonetheless.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Don't know, don't care, as that's not the point. They could sell M16s for all I care, doesn't necessarily mean it's legal. The law itself says that a fixed or detachable magazine that holds more than five shot shells is a LCFD. Doesn't say anything about tubular mags or pump guns or anything like that - those are addressed in other sections but they don't appear to be considerations WRT LCFDs. It's stupid, never enforced, and I'd ignore it in a heartbeat but that's how the law reads nonetheless.

Agreed.

Chief Glidden's comments are great, but

1. in that same thread, LenS reminds us how few LEOs attend his class and receive this guidance; are you prepared to take that risk in today's climate?
   
2. will your trusted pal, Ron, be willing to take the stand as a witness in your defense?
3. even if he appears, and repeats the same guidance, will that be sufficient for your judge?
4. assuming his testimony sways the judge, who pays your defense attorney?

Again, you do you, but remember that the guidance of a retired Chief of police, regardless how respected, is not the law.

 

[Glockster30]

Don't know, don't care, as that's not the point. They could sell M16s for all I care, doesn't necessarily mean it's legal. The law itself says that a fixed or detachable magazine that holds more than five shot shells is a LCFD. Doesn't say anything about tubular mags or pump guns or anything like that - those are addressed in other sections but they don't appear to be considerations WRT LCFDs. It's stupid, never enforced, and I'd ignore it in a heartbeat but that's how the law reads nonetheless.

Lol. I never said or even addressed the issue of a detachable magazine holding more than 5 rounds as being legal. I only addressed tube fed shottys as the thread discussion bounced back and forth wrt to tube fed and detachable mags. As a matter of fact, someone in post #51 asked if a tube was considered a magazine and you responded in post #52 with, "Excellent question that no one knows the answer to! More evidence of Mass laws making no sense."

My response was simply that a tube fed shotgun that holds more than 5 rounds is not illegal (hunting exceptions aside).

 

[Jason m]

Rem 870 20g feild special ( from the 80's ) 21" barrel and a tube extension. Light and lower recoil for the wife to handle loaded with #4 bird shot. Buck shot to me travels threw to many walls, after seeing the destructive power #4 can do but the under penetration it has on drywall i'm happy with the #4.
Anyone doubt it, break in and lets test it lol.

Next up is a Mossberg 510 ( I think is the model ) in .410, oh boy now I really stepped in it by saying .410 for home defense. Mostly for the wife and honestly would you want to be down range with some Turkey load coming at you even from a .410...................didn't think so.

 

[kalash]

My response was simply that a tube fed shotgun that holds more than 5 rounds is not illegal (hunting exceptions aside).

Except that the law says that it IS illegal. I'm not sure how else I can explain this so I'll try posting the law again:

Per General Law - Part I, Title XX, Chapter 140, Section 121 (emphasis mine)
''Large capacity feeding device'', (i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells;

I don't see an exemption for tube-fed shotguns anywhere.


Edit: my previous post was regarding mini-shells and how they tie into this discussion.

 

[Glockster30]

Except that the law says that it IS illegal. I'm not sure how else I can explain this so I'll try posting the law again:

I don't see an exemption for tube-fed shotguns anywhere.

And I'll say it again; where does it state that a tube-fed that holds more than 5 rounds is illegal. It doesn't! And the paragraph that you are citing is followed by a paragraph that states pump shotguns are exempt from being listed as a large capacity weapon, which is why LGSs all over the state sell them.

The term ''large capacity weapon'' shall be a secondary designation and shall apply to a weapon in addition to its primary designation as a firearm, rifle or shotgun and shall not include: (i) any weapon that was manufactured in or prior to the year 1899; (ii) any weapon that operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that is a single-shot weapon;

 

[whacko]

Rem 870 20g feild special ( from the 80's ) 21" barrel and a tube extension. Light and lower recoil for the wife to handle loaded with #4 bird shot. Buck shot to me travels threw to many walls, after seeing the destructive power #4 can do but the under penetration it has on drywall i'm happy with the #4.
Anyone doubt it, break in and lets test it lol.

Next up is a Mossberg 510 ( I think is the model ) in .410, oh boy now I really stepped in it by saying .410 for home defense. Mostly for the wife and honestly would you want to be down range with some Turkey load coming at you even from a .410...................didn't think so.

The nay Sayers in birdshot for home defense will always be around. But number 4 high brass imo is a great option in a smallish house where defensive use is 5-7 yards from a threat. Best video ive ever seen in the subject. Paul sets up actual walls made of drywall......buckshot goes through multiple walls and has energy to be lethal on the outside walls. #4 high brass goes through one wall and stops.....and is still very lethal at 5-7 yards against a threat.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zaR1EVybUgc

 

[Jason m]

The nay Sayers in birdshot for home defense will always be around. But number 4 high brass imo is a great option in a smallish house where defensive use is 5-7 yards from a threat. Best video ive ever seen in the subject. Paul sets up actual walls made of drywall......buckshot goes through multiple walls and has energy to be lethal on the outside walls. #4 high brass goes through one wall and stops.....and is still very lethal at 5-7 yards against a threat.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zaR1EVybUgc

That's what prompted me to try this and im more than convinced that #4 or even a Turkey load is fine and without the over power like buck shot.

 

[whacko]

That's what prompted me to try this and im more than convinced that #4 or even a Turkey load is fine and without the over power like buck shot.

Ive seen every Paul Harrell upload on YouTube. Every Thursday he does an upload. Very well presented. Decent enough science using his "meat targets" and his dry sense of humor has me rolling.

 

[kalash]

And I'll say it again; where does it state that a tube-fed that holds more than 5 rounds is illegal. It doesn't! And the paragraph that you are citing is followed by a paragraph that states pump shotguns are exempt from being listed as a large capacity weapon, which is why LGSs all over the state sell them.

"Large Capacity Feeding Device" and "Large Capacity Weapon" are different sections of the law. Go back and read the link that Mesatchornug posted.

 

[Jason m]

Ive seen every Paul Harrell upload on YouTube. Every Thursday he does an upload. Very well presented. Decent enough science using his "meat targets" and his dry sense of humor has me rolling.

"The new and improved high tech heavy fleece back stop" lol,

 

[whacko]

"The new and improved heavy fleece back stop" lol,

His best was defensive use of a fire arm from the bed. He set up a bedroom on the range comete with "nightstand". Times his reaction to get the handgun and fire on targets about 10 feet away. Tests it shooting the gun under the covers. It was pouring rain.....he actually got under the covers to do the tests. The whole video he's wearing his normal jacket and such but the last scene he gets out of bed and he's wearing sponge Bob pajama bottoms. The guys a riot.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wH7_7pJfoGU&t=2s

 

[M60]

I teach Hunter Ed., and this is new to me. Please provide the cite for deer hunting with a shotgun having a mag limit.

Rem 870 20g feild special ( from the 80's ) 21" barrel and a tube extension. Light and lower recoil for the wife to handle loaded with #4 bird shot. Buck shot to me travels threw to many walls, after seeing the destructive power #4 can do but the under penetration it has on drywall i'm happy with the #4.
Anyone doubt it, break in and lets test it lol.

Next up is a Mossberg 510 ( I think is the model ) in .410, oh boy now I really stepped in it by saying .410 for home defense. Mostly for the wife and honestly would you want to be down range with some Turkey load coming at you even from a .410...................didn't think so.

Well, I wouldn't want to be shot with a .410 slug. That's got to hurt.

 

[whacko]

Well, I wouldn't want to be shot with a .410 slug. That's got to hurt.

410 slug is about the same enery as 44 magnum. The ones I have at home state 1830 feet per second muzzle vocity.