Question: When did MA start using FA-10 forms?

[aeromarine]

BATFE was not supposed to have a "computerized database" of these records but I find it really hard to believe that they can't/don't scan them into some kind of a database or a document management system as they come in.

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Tracing_Center

-Mike

I believe the Brady Act (Handgun Violence Protection Act) which brought about the NICS background checks mandated that details contained in each transaction had to be deleted within 24 hours. However, that is only partially true since the transaction record approval number is captured by the FBI and saved so it can link back to an individual Form 4473. FFLs have told me that during BATFE audits the agents would give them lists of transactions for which they wanted to the Form 4473s pulled and made available for review.

Additionally, other dealers have told me that during recent audits the agents have been scanning all of their Form 4473s going back a far as 20 years. These dealers have said they were told the copied forms were being used to create a database designed to facilitate firearm traces after crimes. I don't think anything in the current laws prevents BATFE, FBI, DOJ or HS from creating that database and using it anyway they see fit.

I have asked some of the BATFE "representatives" (who appear to be low level clerks and not special agents) who have been attending local gun shows in recent years to comment on those claims and they always give me a dumb look and just shrug their shoulders claiming they know nothing about it.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation out their. Perhaps some of the FFLs, BATFE agents, or FRB people who undoubtedly read this thread can enlighten us as what exactly is going in this area. For example:

1) How complete the current FRB - CHSB database on firearms transfers?

2) How much historical background was likely lost due to reported floods and other damage when CHSB was still at 1010 Comm Avenue?

3) Is a federal database being created from surrendered Form 4473s and those forms currently in the hands of active dealers that are being scanned during audits?

4) Should such a database actually exist for what purposes can that database be accessed and used?

These questions and others keep popping up time after time. It would really be appreciated if someone in authority answered them once and for all so we can finally put to rest all the myths, rumors and speculation!

Also, have any of you NESers ever requested a dump of your past firearms purchase transactions from FRB and, if so, how long a period did it cover and was it complete and accurate?

 

[Len-2A Training]

There seems to be a lot of misinformation out their. Perhaps some of the FFLs, BATFE agents, or FRB people who undoubtedly read this thread can enlighten us as what exactly is going in this area. For example:

1) How complete the current FRB - CHSB database on firearms transfers?

2) How much historical background was likely lost due to reported floods and other damage when CHSB was still at 1010 Comm Avenue?

3) Is a federal database being created from surrendered Form 4473s and those forms currently in the hands of active dealers that are being scanned during audits?

4) Should such a database actually exist for what purposes can that database be accessed and used?

These questions and others keep popping up time after time. It would really be appreciated if someone in authority answered them once and for all so we can finally put to rest all the myths, rumors and speculation!

Also, have any of you NESers ever requested a dump of your past firearms purchase transactions from FRB and, if so, how long a period did it cover and was it complete and accurate?

1) If you moved in, the guns you brought with you were never registered. Many/Most that ordered guns from CMP were unaware of the requirement to register them and never did so. Purchases prior to 1968 weren't registered. Many/Most that inherited guns weren't aware that registration was necessary and likely never did so. I have been told by a few people who requested lists of what they allegedly own that the results were "helter skelter", some guns (which owner has FA-10) weren't in the database, others that were no longer owned were in the database, some listings were in gibberish with blank spaces, scrambled info. Be aware that the tissue paper forms were all filled out manually (most of mine were done in cursive of varying quality) and reading "hen scratch" isn't easy, translating that to "real American English" was a challenge and resulted in lots of mis-information or missing information, of that I'm certain.

2) According to the former Director of FRB who had the records computerized, he estimated that ~30K blue cards were destroyed as they got wet and moldy. He also estimates that they computerized ~1Million blue cards. I asked him this question within the past year.

3) I'm certain of this but have no confirmation.

4) Legally the database is only accessible to LE for LE purposes only. Stats with no personal identifying info can be obtained by FOIA requests to FRB. I doubt that BATFE would be as cooperative given the leadership and "mission" of their leaders.

For the record: I've answered 1 & 2 in the past. Comm2A has obtained info wrt 4.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Folks expect the worse with regards to ATF. They have shown that they have no regard for the law, and that is even prior to this current administration.

That goes right back to 1968-69 when they shot a guy investigating possession of one of those inert grenades that are available at the gun shows.

I remember that event!!