Question for Motorcycle Riders

Gammon said:
News to me and I still don't think they're really necessary. Never owned an Evo and don't ride my TC all that much. Most of my bike building was done with sixties or older HDs.
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Apparently HD's engineers disagree with you; I suspect they know more than either you or I.

I occasionally managed to float the valves on my hot-rodded '85 FXRS which did not have a stock ignition, and most certainly did not have a rev limiter. Had a whole bunch of trick stuff on that bike, and some serious lift and overlap. Serious enough that I had to cut away part of the inner nosecone for clearance.
 
tk421991 said:
The funny thing is, the real quality American bikes were the Indians. Indians always lead the way in technology. Burt Munro rode an Indian. Also, when was the last time a Harley (not a Buell, a real Harley) won a race? Not talking flat track, I mean like World Superbike, MotoGP, Motocross, Supercross, Hare Scrambles, Enduros, etc. On any given Sunday in New England, you'll see KTMs and Huskys winning NETRA races. Go to a Motocross or Supercross and it's KTMs, Huskys and the four Jap companies. Watch MotoGP or World Superbike.

Harleys were chosen to be our military bike in WW2 because they were cheaper. Yet these days, the things cost $18,000 for a nice model.

Harley has been taking foreign parts and making "American" bikes for way too long. Look at their attempt to get into Motocross, the 1978 Harley MX250. It had an Aermacchi 2-stroke engine and a frame from Champion. They made a whopping total of 65 bikes.

http://motocrossactionmag.com/news/classic-motocross-iron-1975-harley-davidson-mx-250

The other problem with Harley is that they're so full of "history" that they can't or won't move into the 21st Century. Does Harley make anything besides gigantic, overweight cruisers? Nope. Not one supermoto, not one dirtbike, not one sportbike (no more Buell) and not one ADV bike. And because Indian/Victory position themselves as "better at being a cruiser than Harley", those two companies also don't get into other bikes.

I see more Harley bumper stickers and truck tow hitch covers and clothing than I do actual Harleys. Like Thomas Paine said, "sunshine patriots."
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I don't disagree with any of that.

Mike



Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...
 
garandman said:
And here's an example of why HD riders are so special.

My V-Strom would go 230 to 300 miles on a tank. It had a windshield, hand guards, heated grips, and 6" of suspension travel. Sport touring tires were terrific in rain and lasted over 8,000 miles. In Germany they typically ride them on the autobahn at 130-140 kph (80-87mph) because mpg goes down so fast at speeds higher than that the cost is more and they have to stop more often.

If you look at the Iron Butt riders, the most popular bike is the Honda ST1300. The most popular brand is probably BMW. Other liter plus sports tourers like the Kawasaki Concours and Yamaha FJR also have number.

Harley?If someone wants to ride HD because of their image, more power to you: I knew the Roadster was the slowest road bike I've ever owned when I bought it. And their touring bikes are very competitive with the other heavyweights. But speed is best left out of the equation.
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ST1300 and sport tourers are not squids.

I grew up riding honda's and wanted something less plastic, more comfortable and something to tinker with, so moved to a Harley. I own exactly three things that say harley (not including my bike) 2 pair of gloves, and 1 (free) t shirt. I even debaged it for the most part. It was more that I wanted real chrome metal parts, and the ability to tweak it to hell and back maiking it unique. Only so many things can be done to a Sabre or an ST (I owned both). Also I test rode the F6b, and SEVERAL of the Indians and Victories, and the HD was just more bang for the buck, and rode nicer, or looked better. I wanted to love the Victory, and just couldn't. I liked the F6B, but wanted to try something other than a Honda. And I have 0 regrets.

There are those who ride a real bike, and those that wish they did, lol. Just busting your chops dude.
 
tk421991 said:
Does Harley make anything besides gigantic, overweight cruisers? Nope. Not one supermoto, not one dirtbike, not one sportbike (no more Buell) and not one ADV bike.
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In fairness HD has released the Street 500 and 750. And added water cooling to some models. They seem to be exploring ways to make a more modern version before Polaris eats their lunch for them.
 
garandman said:
In fairness HD has released the Street 500 and 750. And added water cooling to some models. They seem to be exploring ways to make a more modern version before Polaris eats their lunch for them.
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I've sat on the Street 500, for what that's worth, and I don't see it going to be a success. It's a cruiser style 500cc bike for roughly $7000 and still is overweight. For $500 or so more, you can get a Vulcan S with ABS that has a 649cc engine.

I personally don't see liquid cooled to be an advantage over air cooled in regards to a commuting or Sunday rider point of view. Before I moved to NH, I commuted 40 miles one way, back and forth, in thick rush hour traffic, with a liquid cooled bike in spring, summer and fall. March to November. And in summer, that thing cooked in traffic. Did the same route at the same time with an air cooled bike and it didn't cook as bad.

I think Harley should diversify into dirtbikes. That way, they can keep to their cruiser image with that target market but they'll be able to make money off of dirtbike sales. A good amount of Harley buyers want something that looks like a Harley, sounds like a Harley and rides like one - meaning it's got to be at least a little old fashioned. How well did the VROD sell?

The problem is though, they would have to either face a steep learning curve to get into dirtbikes, which would take time, money and effort, or they would need to partner up with someone like say Gas Gas or TM Motorcycles. The chances of either situation happening is non-existent.

It just irks me no end that companies like BMW, KTM and the Japs can literally make a bike for everyone, yet we Americans can't. KTM can sell you an ADV bike, a dirtbike, a road legal dirtbike, a supermoto, or a sport bike and they make some high quality bikes. They can also sell them in blue, yellow and white. Why can't Harley or Indian or Victory do the same?
 
tk421991 said:
I've sat on the Street 500, for what that's worth, and I don't see it going to be a success. It's a cruiser style 500cc bike for roughly $7000 and still is overweight. For $500 or so more, you can get a Vulcan S with ABS that has a 649cc engine.

I personally don't see liquid cooled to be an advantage over air cooled in regards to a commuting or Sunday rider point of view. Before I moved to NH, I commuted 40 miles one way, back and forth, in thick rush hour traffic, with a liquid cooled bike in spring, summer and fall. March to November. And in summer, that thing cooked in traffic. Did the same route at the same time with an air cooled bike and it didn't cook as bad.

I think Harley should diversify into dirtbikes. That way, they can keep to their cruiser image with that target market but they'll be able to make money off of dirtbike sales. A good amount of Harley buyers want something that looks like a Harley, sounds like a Harley and rides like one - meaning it's got to be at least a little old fashioned. How well did the VROD sell?

The problem is though, they would have to either face a steep learning curve to get into dirtbikes, which would take time, money and effort, or they would need to partner up with someone like say Gas Gas or TM Motorcycles. The chances of either situation happening is non-existent.

It just irks me no end that companies like BMW, KTM and the Japs can literally make a bike for everyone, yet we Americans can't. KTM can sell you an ADV bike, a dirtbike, a road legal dirtbike, a supermoto, or a sport bike and they make some high quality bikes. They can also sell them in blue, yellow and white. Why can't Harley or Indian or Victory do the same?
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I believe at one time Harley was interested in buying KTM.

PS I think that Harley's problem is that they can sell every bike they build and are under no pressure to change their game plan. I think the 500 and 750cc models are a half assed attempt to recoup some of the $ they wasted on their water cooled race bike and its step child the V rod, neither of which have been very successful.
Before they can branch out they need to get their existing models in order. My 2007 96 cu in Superglide uses a sub frame to rubber mount the engine and drive train and isolate its vibration from the rider. This system works but probably adds 100 lbs to the weight of the bike. This is not progress. They need to offer a counterbalanced engine in all of their models and lose as much extra weight as possible.
It might also be a good idea to reconsider the twin cam "improvement". Replacing a single cam with almost twenty extra parts was not a good idea and reliability suffered. The list goes on but HD makes no changes because they simply don't have to.
 
jhblaze1 said:
There hasn't been a real indian since 1953 and there will never be another.
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Nobody like old bikes more than me.... but have you ridden the new ones ? Easy on the eyes and pulls like a freight train.

Disclaimer...I dig almost all motorcycles regardless of brand. If it's got less than 4 wheels then all the power to ya.
 
Gammon said:
I believe at one time Harley was interested in buying KTM.

PS I think that Harley's problem is that they can sell every bike they build and are under no pressure to change their game plan. I think the 500 and 750cc models are a half assed attempt to recoup some of the $ they wasted on their water cooled race bike and its step child the V rod, neither of which have been very successful.
Before they can branch out they need to get their existing models in order. My 2007 96 cu in Superglide uses a sub frame to rubber mount the engine and drive train and isolate its vibration from the rider. This system works but probably adds 100 lbs to the weight of the bike. This is not progress. They need to offer a counterbalanced engine in all of their models and lose as much extra weight as possible.
It might also be a good idea to reconsider the twin cam "improvement". Replacing a single cam with almost twenty extra parts was not a good idea and reliability suffered. The list goes on but HD makes no changes because they simply don't have to.
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I feel like except for at the top of the powerband my rigid mounted evo vibrates less than the rubber mounted engine on my wifes xl1200.

Mike

Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...
 
There is no reason to ever blip the throttle unless you are slowing down for a corner and want to match revs when you downshift.

Everything else is superfluous. Although fun.

If you are coming to a stop, you can simply pull in the clutch and brake to a stop while stomping down to first then a half click up for neutral. I'm usually in neutral before I come to a stop so I don't have to hold the clutch in during a stop light.

I think some of it comes from "back in the day". My old 2 stroke roadracers didn't even have an idle circuit in their carburetors. You had to continually blip the throttle to keep them running. With modern fuel injection, this is pointless.

[video=youtube_share;etv7R-uw2Qc]http://youtu.be/etv7R-uw2Qc[/video]

Some guys like to shift down through the gears as they slow to a stop. To do this properly, you need to blip the throttle to match revs. Its good practice for rev matching since if you do this going into a corner, you want to match revs as closely as possible for smoothness. But again this is unnecessary.

So really, it just sounds cool.

Don

p.s. the sound and smell of a TZ750 on Castrol R being warmed up is perhaps the greatest multisensory experience there is other than sex.
 
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dcmdon said:
There is no reason to ever blip the throttle unless you are slowing down for a corner and want to match revs when you downshift.
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Again, when carbed bikes are warming up and you are adjusting the choke/enrichener at a light you can blip the throttle to make sure it won't stall.

Mike
 
dcmdon said:
...

If you are coming to a stop, you can simply pull in the clutch and brake to a stop while stomping down to first then a half click up for neutral. I'm usually in neutral before I come to a stop so I don't have to hold the clutch in during a stop light.
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When encountering any traffic/junction, I prefer to always have the bike in a state of acceleration readiness. No neutral for me, unless there's a serious buffer of vehicles behind me.
 
A lot of riders (me too) like to use neutral at a stop to ease the pressure on the left hand. Some bikes have difficulty going into neutral and some riders have trouble finding it, period. A little rev can ease the process which is much easier to do while the bike is still rolling.

When approaching a stop I engine brake a little and rev with each downshift as a matter of habit. I suppose I perform this ritual because am really like the sound of my 96 in TC which is surprisingly loud for a factory stock exhaust. I keep it stock to placate the neighbors and also because a new system will probably set me back close to a grand.

PS When arriving home from work at 1230am I coast the last couple of hundred yards directly into my garage as quietly as possible. This feat is made possible by the garage door opener remote I installed in the TC. Flipping the high beam switch activates the door.
 
All kinds of scenarios where the polite rider will keep it quiet.

I remember countryside rides and coming across people on horses. So you clutch and idle/coast past the critter. You'll sometimes see a dark look of hatred turning to a smile and a friendly wave.

Still there are OTHER times when nailing the throttle and sending rolling thunder through the valleys is just freaking FUN.
 
pupchow said:
When encountering any traffic/junction, I prefer to always have the bike in a state of acceleration readiness. No neutral for me, unless there's a serious buffer of vehicles behind me.
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Yeah, the only time I'm in neutral at a stoplight is after cars have stacked up behind me. If I'm the first (or last for that matter) vehicle and no one is behind me yet I'm in 1st and ready to screw if some nitwit plans to smash into me while checking facebook. Once I'm sure no one can directly smash into me then I pop it in neutral if I know it's long light.
 
EddieZoom said:
Nobody like old bikes more than me.... but have you ridden the new ones ? Easy on the eyes and pulls like a freight train.

Disclaimer...I dig almost all motorcycles regardless of brand. If it's got less than 4 wheels then all the power to ya.
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I'm sure they're fine machines, that's not what I'm saying. They're just not Indians. That brand is dead.

I think it's kind of cool that Polaris is trying to resurrect the brand and keeping true to the styling, but there' still not Indians. They're just Polaris bikes with fancy fenders. That said, Polaris makes a fine bike.

I think Polaris' use of a 111 in the Indians and 106 or whatever it is in the Victory line might force Harley to add a bit more power in the next year or two. In fact, I suspect that's what this year's "S" models are all about....test bikes for putting a 110 in all the big twin non-CVO models. I bet 2017 or 2018 at the latest will see 110s in all the big twins and the CVOs will get 117 or 120. They'll still have roughly the same horsepower as my walk behind mower.
 
jhblaze1 said:
I'm sure they're fine machines, that's not what I'm saying. They're just not Indians. That brand is dead.

I think it's kind of cool that Polaris is trying to resurrect the brand and keeping true to the styling, but there' still not Indians. They're just Polaris bikes with fancy fenders. That said, Polaris makes a fine bike.

I think Polaris' use of a 111 in the Indians and 106 or whatever it is in the Victory line might force Harley to add a bit more power in the next year or two. In fact, I suspect that's what this year's "S" models are all about....test bikes for putting a 110 in all the big twin non-CVO models. I bet 2017 or 2018 at the latest will see 110s in all the big twins and the CVOs will get 117 or 120. They'll still have roughly the same horsepower as my walk behind mower.
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I mean... as I understand it they are ground up designed for the indian line. The 111 is exclusive to the indians as is the scouts engine.

Mike

Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...
 
dixidawg said:
Are Harleys still Harleys since AMF bought them? A rose by another name?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
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fair point. but kind of different. Indian went out of business, shut its doors, and stopped producing bikes for decades. Then a company came along and bought the name and started making new bikes with Indian badging.

With Harley, you had an operational company change ownership a few times.
 
And the new HD bikes and
employees have no
real connection to what was in the 1950's. So does it really matter whether they shut down for some time in the middle? The sticker on the tank is only a word when it comes to tying any product back to it's history.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 
I only do it because my passenger likes it. [laugh]

Biker-bitch_zpsakh9xixx.jpg
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