Question about MA Gun restrictions for LEO

[FloridaLife23]

While looking at this page on the mass gov website, (Frequently Asked Questions about the Assault Weapons Ban Enforcement Notice)

I read this FAQ (all underlined)

I am a law enforcement officer. Does the notice affect me?​

No. The notice does not change the law with respect to ownership of Assault Weapons by law enforcement officers. Your existing right to buy and possess Assault Weapons remains protected under Massachusetts law.

Can law enforcement purchase high capacity/rifle weapons for off duty purposes? or is this underlined FAQ and answer in reference to LEO while in the course of their official duties.

 

[appraiser]

IMHO IIRC to do so they need a letter on letterhead from their Department saying it is for official use.

Lots of cops have post AWB94 hi caps for their Glocks, even personally owned ones, but when they retire they lose the right to have post AWB 1994 high capacity magazines, in theory.

 

[SIGNES]

AFAIK, LEOs and retired LEOs are exempt from MA law w.r.t. which weapons they can purchase and own (except of course NFA items) including those stipulated in the "Enforcement Notice". Note: "does not change the law" (which is amusing because the turn of phrase seems to indicate an awareness that the 'notice' may an attempt at a 'change of law').

 

[Len-2A Training]

AFAIK, LEOs and retired LEOs are exempt from MA law w.r.t. which weapons they can purchase and own (except of course NFA items) including those stipulated in the "Enforcement Notice". Note: "does not change the law" (which is amusing because the turn of phrase seems to indicate an awareness that the 'notice' may an attempt at a 'change of law').

Not true. Once retired, they lose those privileges per MGL even if they purchased the items with their own money.

 

[appraiser]

Try to go in and buy a Glock with high caps from a dealer in MA without a letter from your Chief, it isn't going to happen

Hell a retired cop visiting MA can carry his personally owned Glock on POPA, but not with "post ban" high capacity magazines.

I wouldn't risk carrying one on vacation on POPA in MA with high caps

On duty handling an investigation or extradition is another story, as is training, but even "on the badge" an out of state cop can't walk into a gun shop in MA and buy ammo even for training purposes.

Remember the law about buying guns on lists only applies to dealers, you can buy almost any gun in a FTF sale cop or not, and there are creative ways of getting guns that supposedly made out of unobtanium

 

[Spartan65]

Her enforcement notice is meaningless for everyone in MA.

 

[SIGNES]

Not true. Once retired, they lose those privileges per MGL even if they purchased the items with their own money.

I thought one could maintain their LEOSA cert and still be legit. Thanks for the heads up! That said, I didn't think the O.P. was out of state.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I thought one could maintain their LEOSA cert and still be legit. Thanks for the heads up! That said, I didn't think the O.P. was out of state.

You are confusing two issues.

Only active LEOs can possess post-ban large capacity mags or new so-called AWs (per MGL). Once retired, they must get rid of them or could face felony charges.

LEOSA allows credentialed LEOs (retired for this case) to carry whatever is legal in MA while in MA. So again, no large-capacity mags that are post-ban or new so-called AWs (per MGL). I am one such person and live ~6 miles from the MA border in NH. I have new large-capacity mags, but only carry 10 rd mags since I can easily cross the border while doing normal shopping in the area.

 

[Romokid]

Try to go in and buy a Glock with high caps from a dealer in MA without a letter from your Chief, it isn't going to happen

Well my brother in law bought a G23 with 3 high caps no letter from chief about a year ago or so, also don’t know if him working for ATF made a difference. I do know that the dealer knew he couldn’t photo his credentials.

 

[SIGNES]

You are confusing two issues.

Only active LEOs can possess post-ban large capacity mags or new so-called AWs (per MGL). Once retired, they must get rid of them or could face felony charges.

LEOSA allows credentialed LEOs (retired for this case) to carry whatever is legal in MA while in MA. So again, no large-capacity mags that are post-ban or new so-called AWs (per MGL). I am one such person and live ~6 miles from the MA border in NH. I have new large-capacity mags, but only carry 10 rd mags since I can easily cross the border while doing normal shopping in the area.

Thank you. I'll dig into this lest there be trouble I didn't have any idea about because "yay, clear rational gun laws in MA" :-/

 

[Len-2A Training]

Thank you. I'll dig into this lest there be trouble I didn't have any idea about because "yay, clear rational gun laws in MA" :-/

Here's the best MGL info on the subject. They removed "for duty purposes" from the law but didn't add any text. So, as it reads, retirees can only possess them IFF they RECEIVED them as a gift upon retirement. Many years ago it was common for a retiring officer to be gifted their sidearm. When the Ethics law and Ethics Commission was formed, they ban all such gifts and demand that gov't property be sold (or destroyed in the case of guns) and gifts are subject to prosecution. That changed everything and why the answer is that we don't have the privilege to keep what we paid for with our own money upon retirement.

I discussed this with the FRB attorney some years ago in a FTF discussion. [Note: This wasn't Jason Guida. Michaela Dunne had an attorney on staff for a few years.]

 

[SgtHal75]

Not true. Once retired, they lose those privileges per MGL even if they purchased the items with their own money.

Do they become felons like the rest of us when they retire? Or do they get to use the excuse of it was bought when I was still an active LEO?…friggin MA

 

[alan226]

Here's the best MGL info on the subject. They removed "for duty purposes" from the law but didn't add any text. So, as it reads, retirees can only possess them IFF they RECEIVED them as a gift upon retirement. Many years ago it was common for a retiring officer to be gifted their sidearm. When the Ethics law and Ethics Commission was formed, they ban all such gifts and demand that gov't property be sold (or destroyed in the case of guns) and gifts are subject to prosecution. That changed everything and why the answer is that we don't have the privilege to keep what we paid for with our own money upon retirement.

I discussed this with the FRB attorney some years ago in a FTF discussion. [Note: This wasn't Jason Guida. Michaela Dunne had an attorney on staff for a few years.]

Len, can u point me in the direction of the MGL for this?
I can see C140 131M

Ask 6 different dealers, you get 6 different answers. This is some of what I have been told in the last few years:

-Active LEO's are exempt from AWB and mag restrictions.
-Retired LEO's can't purchase any new AWB weapons, but are allowed to possess what they had before they were retired
-One well known shop told me that when retired, I can't purchase a Glock for example, but I can purchase post ban mags
-One well known shop told me that as a retiree, I can purchase AW and Hi cap mags only if I had a LEOSA card, LTC and creds
-One well known shop told me once retired I can keep any hi cap mags that were in my possession before I retired but can't purchase any new ones

HAs there been any cases where this has been settled?

 

[Echo 225]

Why are the police allowed to own certain firearms and not the civilians? Seem to me that's totally against the second amendment if you ask me.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Do they become felons like the rest of us when they retire? Or do they get to use the excuse of it was bought when I was still an active LEO?…friggin MA

Felon

Len, can u point me in the direction of the MGL for this?

Ask 6 different dealers, you get 6 different answers. This is some of what I have been told in the last few years:

-Active LEO's are exempt from AWB and mag restrictions.
-Retired LEO's can't purchase any new AWB weapons, but are allowed to possess what they had before they were retired
-One well known shop told me that when retired, I can't purchase a Glock for example, but I can purchase post ban mags
-One well known shop told me that as a retiree, I can purchase AW and Hi cap mags only if I had a LEOSA card, LTC and creds
-One well known shop told me once retired I can keep any hi cap mags that were in my possession before I retired but can't purchase any new ones

HAs there been any cases where this has been settled?

MGL C. 140 S 131M

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131M

The provisions of this section shall not apply to: (i) the possession by a law enforcement officer; or (ii) the possession by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving such a weapon or feeding device from such agency upon retirement.

The Ethics laws/regs make the bolded part illegal.

TTBOMK nobody has been prosecuted for this, but there have been some "close issues" where guns were confiscated and upon trying to return them, "issues" came up.

MGLs are very convoluted and most dealers and LEOs really don't understand them or the nuances.

 

[LTCRN]

Well my brother in law bought a G23 with 3 high caps no letter from chief about a year ago or so, also don’t know if him working for ATF made a difference. I do know that the dealer knew he couldn’t photo his credentials.

Some dealers just don't care and follow the law to the best of their knowledge. This is because M.G.L.'s are so confusing and designed to make you give up trying to stay in business.
Same as civilians that go to other adjacent states or states below NJ /Delaware on the East Coast to get what they want or what they want at reasonable prices.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

Basically if you got LEOSA credentials go ahead and CCW any state just follow the magazine capacity laws, also in NJ do NOT carry hollow point ammo.

It's not worth the hassle of dealing with stupid shit over magazine's, federal law has you covered for the CCW

I got my credentials but only carry 10 rounders in MA

 

[Chevy 2 65]

f*** mAss

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

 

[cams]

There is no more law in America. Adult rules apply.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

Felon


MGL C. 140 S 131M

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131M

The Ethics laws/regs make the bolded part illegal.

TTBOMK nobody has been prosecuted for this, but there have been some "close issues" where guns were confiscated and upon trying to return them, "issues" came up.

MGLs are very convoluted and most dealers and LEOs really don't understand them or the nuances.

Len my LEOSA instructor told me with absolute certainty that the AWB does not apply to retirees, he is an active duty police instructor in Massachusetts, I literally just called and spoke with him about this.

That not otherwise prohibited from receiving a large cap feeding device is an ethics clause not a possession clause.

Your prohibited from receiving a gift on ethical purposes not legal possession purposes

 

[Len-2A Training]

Len my LEOSA instructor told me with absolute certainty that the AWB does not apply to retirees, he is an active duty police instructor in Massachusetts, I literally just called and spoke with him about this.

That not otherwise prohibited from receiving a large cap feeding device is an ethics clause not a possession clause.

Your prohibited from receiving a gift on ethical purposes not legal possession purposes

I'm also a LEOSA instructor and can tell you that most cops do not have a good grasp of Mass gun laws. I've had 2 police chiefs, a number of active police officers and attorneys attend my Mass Gun Law seminars and all of them told me that they learned things there that they never knew before. I go to the source to get my info, something that most instructors and police officers won't/don't do. Also, a few years before he retired, Chief Glidden called me to ask where he could buy a Mass compliant AR that he could keep after retirement. I asked him why, because at the time I believed like you and your instructor do, and Glidden explained what really is legal here.

However, do what you feel comfortable doing. I tell people what the law or higher authorities say is legal, what they do with that info is strictly up to them.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

I'm also a LEOSA instructor and can tell you that most cops do not have a good grasp of Mass gun laws. I've had 2 police chiefs, a number of active police officers and attorneys attend my Mass Gun Law seminars and all of them told me that they learned things there that they never knew before. I go to the source to get my info, something that most instructors and police officers won't/don't do. Also, a few years before he retired, Chief Glidden called me to ask where he could buy a Mass compliant AR that he could keep after retirement. I asked him why, because at the time I believed like you and your instructor do, and Glidden explained what really is legal here.

However, do what you feel comfortable doing. I tell people what the law or higher authorities say is legal, what they do with that info is strictly up to them.

I'm certainly not calling you out Len, I just believe that I could ask 5 different LEOSA instructors and get 3 or 4 different explanations is all.

 

[appraiser]

what some Instructor, Chief, or other person says is not relevant, because it is going to be the District Attorney who makes the call and the people on the Jury who decide your fate.

The DA is not going to care that you tell them Chief Wiggum said it was OK for me to carry post AWB high capacity magazines in my personally owned gun after I retired, or that your AR could have "evil features".



Until a case in the First Federal Circuit overturns this BS in MA, and the AG and Legislature act to change the law on the books to match that decision, or someone brings a case that goes to the US Supreme Court, or conflicting decisions from other Circuits get brought with a "good" decision to the SCOUS and the Justices rule as they did in Bruen that 2A has to be interpreted by the Constitutions original meaning, then it is going to be a 50 State or Federal shit show, with MA being at the top of the pile of fecal matter

 

[Rick O'Shea]

Why are the police allowed to own certain firearms and not the civilians? Seem to me that's totally against the second amendment if you ask me.

* Police are civilians,...

 

[bolt]

I was just researching this stuff. I sent you a PM LenS.
If you might know where I might finds some/additional info it be helpful.
Good to see you here to so to speak.
No doubt you found a nice range up there to release any new targeting needs!
GoodLuck 2U& yours..

I heard this one: it gave me a chuckle.....

A new discovery rarely elicits a sound like ....Eurika!
It's usually more like........OOooooh....

 

[CATI]

Why are the police allowed to own certain firearms and not the civilians? Seem to me that's totally against the second amendment if you ask me.

It’s against the 14th amendment

 

[Picton]

I could ask 5 different LEOSA instructors and get 3 or 4 different explanations is all.

Yes, but if you're thinking like a bureacrat? That's a feature, not a bug.

 

[Coyote33]

Once retired, they must get rid of them or could face felony charges.

Unless "selective enforcement" comes in to play.

Why are the police allowed to own certain firearms and not the civilians? Seem to me that's totally against the second amendment if you ask me.

It is EXACTLY OPPOSITE of the Second Amendment.

There is no more law in America. Adult rules apply.

Pretty much.

what some Instructor, Chief, or other person says is not relevant, because it is going to be the District Attorney who makes the call

It becomes all about who they know, and how well they "know" them.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

Yes, but if you're thinking like a bureacrat? That's a feature, not a bug.

Understood and thats why when I'm in Massachusetts I carry 10 round mags, I'm not feeling froggy enough to challenge a State Trooper or some 22 year old Town cop if it came down to it.

Although I'd say I like my chances in court but its not a battle I have the stomach for, especially over a magazine when a 10 rounder suits me just fine.

 

[Coyote33]

"froggy enough"?