Question about gun control, be gentle...

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IamPedroA

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Ok, so I'm new to guns. I didn't grow up with them and I don't know a lot of people who are into shooting. I've always been gun friendly - who knows where I picked that up - but, like a lot of people, I just didn't know much about gun laws. Then I applied for an LTC in Boston (approved with restrictions), and boy were my eyes opened. Bottom line: I had assumed gun laws made more sense than they do. I know, I know...I'm young and naive. Let's try to get past that.

My sense is that a lot of gun laws are written to appeal to non-gun owners, so they don't have to make sense. But here's my question: what gun laws would make sense? In other words, what gun laws (existing, proposed, or theoretical) would you be willing to either (a) support, or (b) live with if it meant an end to putting up with the constant gun-control pressure. I know that getting the issue off the political landscape is unrealistic, but let's approach this as a thought experiment. If you could figure out the compromise, what would it be?
 
None. the only gun law that makes sense was written a couple hundred years ago. It's called the second amendment.

I have no appetite for any restriction on my natural rights.



in before a bunch of jerks dogpile you calling you a troll.
 
Ok. Fair enough. Let me ask you this: if you are convicted of a violent crime and are out on probation, should you be able to legally purchase and carry a handgun? I just want to make sure we both understand the same thing when you say "any restriction."
 
IamPedroA said:
Ok. Fair enough. Let me ask you this: if you are convicted of a violent crime and are out on probation, should you be able to legally purchase and carry a handgun? I just want to make sure we both understand the same thing when you say "any restriction."
Click to expand...

out on parole you mean? All rights restored.

If the crime you committed was bad enough that all your most fundamental rights were stripped, you should probably be serving a life sentence or death penalty.
 
IamPedroA said:
Ok, so I'm new to guns. I didn't grow up with them and I don't know a lot of people who are into shooting. I've always been gun friendly - who knows where I picked that up - but, like a lot of people, I just didn't know much about gun laws. Then I applied for an LTC in Boston (approved with restrictions), and boy were my eyes opened. Bottom line: I had assumed gun laws made more sense than they do. I know, I know...I'm young and naive. Let's try to get past that.

My sense is that a lot of gun laws are written to appeal to non-gun owners, so they don't have to make sense. But here's my question: what gun laws would make sense? In other words, what gun laws (existing, proposed, or theoretical) would you be willing to either (a) support, or (b) live with if it meant an end to putting up with the constant gun-control pressure. I know that getting the issue off the political landscape is unrealistic, but let's approach this as a thought experiment. If you could figure out the compromise, what would it be?
Click to expand...
No compromise!! Shall not be infringed!!
 
NEVER SURRENDER said:
No compromise!! Shall not be infringed!!
Click to expand...

Yep. With the way politicians have lied and cannot be trusted, I would not be comfortable with any new or ongoing gun laws. If there was a "deal" that was made, you couldn't trust it as sooner or later those same politicians would be back for more. The only changes I want to see is the reversal of many of the existing draconian gun laws.

I disagree though with Battlesnail. If your a felon, no gun rights for you. If you were stupid enough to commit a felony you should pay the consequences.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
I disagree though with Battlesnail. If your a felon, no gun rights for you. If you were stupid enough to commit a felony you should pay the consequences.
Click to expand...

shouldn't the consequence be jail time? once your sentence is up you think you should still have no rights?

What if the "felony" is some BS trumped up non violent fedgov 3 felonies a day type felonies every American unwittingly commits on a daily basis?

If your felony was rape, murder, kiddie diddling I agree....LIFE without parole for all 3 of those. Anything less than <- those I think once your sentence is served you've repaid your debt to society and the slate should be wiped clean.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
If your a felon, no gun rights for you. If you were stupid enough to commit a felony you should pay the consequences.
Click to expand...

Meh...I dont know. If you stole a car as a dumb 19 year old, should you be denied the right to defend yourself and your family as a now law abiding middle aged guy?

If youre enough of a danger to society that you cant be trusted to peaceably bear arms, then you should remain locked up. If you can be trusted to be allowed back into society, then you should have the right to bear arms.
 
To answer the op's question, there are too many gun laws as it is. None of which have had any appreciable effect on the crime rate, imo.

Historically, show me where there has been a "compromise" regarding gun legislation. Keep in mind the word compromise suggests that both sides are giving something up, meeting in the middle. Its been one side doing the taking, and the other side getting nothing in return.
 
com·pro·mise
ˈkämprəˌmīz/
noun
noun: compromise; plural noun: compromises

1.
an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.
"an ability to listen to two sides in a dispute, and devise a compromise acceptable to both"
synonyms: agreement, understanding, settlement, terms, deal, trade-off, bargain; More


So far the only one making a concession is the gun owners. How about if we agree to licensing than we don't have to pay any taxes forever. See that's a compromise. How about if we agree to taking a safety class we get a free AR15. That's a compromise.
 
you don't need to re-invent the wheel, laws don't grant you natural rights, they only recognize them or try to take them away.

Infringement with various gun control laws is just that, a control for the state. The state asserting it's dominance and dictating how to live your life among other things.

Go back in history and find when first "gun control" laws started to appear. On the spectrum of human history, it's one of the youngest and oldest laws. Oldest, because only slaves were restricted to bear arms. Youngest, because non-state workers are getting restricted.
 
BattleSnail said:
shouldn't the consequence be jail time? once your sentence is up you think you should still have no rights?

What if the "felony" is some BS trumped up non violent fedgov 3 felonies a day type felonies every American unwittingly commits on a daily basis?

If your felony was rape, murder, kiddie diddling I agree....LIFE without parole for all 3 of those. Anything less than <- those I think once your sentence is served you've repaid your debt to society and the slate should be wiped clean.
Click to expand...

It's a fine line. Where do you draw it. If you're convicted of this, you can. If you're convicted of that, you can't. Problem I have is that murderers, rapist, didlers are getting out within 10 years or less for "good behavior". Plus the track record of our justice system actually rehabilitating anyone is abysmal. To make matters even worse, non-violent offenders may not stay that way in order to survive in the big house.
 
Mike-Mike said:
com·pro·mise
ˈkämprəˌmīz/
noun
noun: compromise; plural noun: compromises

1.
an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.
"an ability to listen to two sides in a dispute, and devise a compromise acceptable to both"
synonyms: agreement, understanding, settlement, terms, deal, trade-off, bargain; More


So far the only one making a concession is the gun owners. How about if we agree to licensing than we don't have to pay any taxes forever. See that's a compromise. How about if we agree to taking a safety class we get a free AR15. That's a compromise.
Click to expand...
I like this idea ^
 
Rockrivr1 said:
It's a fine line. Where do you draw it. If you're convicted of this, you can. If you're convicted of that, you can't. Problem I have is that murderers, rapist, didlers are getting out within 10 years or less for "good behavior". Plus the track record of our justice system actually rehabilitating anyone is abysmal. To make matters even worse, non-violent offenders may not stay that way in order to survive in the big house.
Click to expand...


US holds something like %25 of all people jailed on this planet. Clearly, we have a problem. Let's fix it first, not adjust to it.
 
headednorth said:
Meh...I dont know. If you stole a car as a dumb 19 year old, should you be denied the right to defend yourself and your family as a now law abiding middle aged guy?

If youre enough of a danger to society that you cant be trusted to peaceably bear arms, then you should remain locked up. If you can be trusted to be allowed back into society, then you should have the right to bear arms.
Click to expand...
+1
 
I have no problem with those convicted of violent felonies being permanently stripped of their right to own firearms. If you think that fundamental rights cannot be irrevocably removed, then how can you possibly support life in prison, with no parole, or the death penalty? Isn't the right of freedom to choose where and how you live, just as basic as the right of self-defense? Isn't the death penalty the ultimate manifestation of the removal of any and all rights?
Prison isn’t intended to be a cure, it’s a punishment. Sometimes the punishment goes beyond the time you serve in prison. Sometimes, for those who commit the most heinous of crimes, the punishment entails permanent revocation of basic rights. Usually, in response to the convicted person having done the same to others. If you believe that the founding fathers were against any infringement of basic human rihts, can you point me in the direction of documentation that indicates that they are anti-prison, and anti-death penalty?

So yes, I am okay with some laws governing the ability to own firearms. Where I have a big problem is with idiotic laws that do nothing to reduce the risk of violent crime (i.e. only impact law abiding citizens), and focus on the technology of the weapon used in the latest high profile (but low occurrence) mass killing.

Feel free to call me a traitor, troll, or whatever you choose. But if that is all you can add to the debate, you are no better than the libtards who rely upon catch phrases and sound bites to address an important and complicated issue that impacts our society in a very meaningful way.

Chris
 
Rockrivr1 said:
I disagree though with Battlesnail. If your a felon, no gun rights for you. If you were stupid enough to commit a felony you should pay the consequences.
Click to expand...
I agree for violent felonies. Not for joy riding in a car or something stupid. Even violent felonies, maybe put a 10 year cap on the prohibition if you keep your nose clean.

I think that some things like the background checks are ok, but there are too many laws on the books as it is. I would support NO new laws at all no.
 
IamPedroA said:
Ok. Fair enough. Let me ask you this: if you are convicted of a violent crime and are out on probation, should you be able to legally purchase and carry a handgun? I just want to make sure we both understand the same thing when you say "any restriction."
Click to expand...

So do you lose your 1A, 4A or 5A rights under same circumstances?

Nope

Bottom line is that criminals don't pay attention to laws........and if someone can't be trusted to behave like a citizen then they shouldn't be let out of prison at all.
 
Will...not...negotiate...with...the...enemy.

At at this point I'm not willing to compromise on anything. When they do it just means more rights lost. Don't kid yourself.
 
Even if there was a legitimate compromise at this point. it would just result in gun owners getting something BACK that we already had at one point.

Its like, I take over your house and then, as a "compromise", I give you back one of the bedrooms and say, " OK, now what are YOU gonna do for ME???"
 
Don't you just love it?

Most of these guys probably couldn't agree on what to have for breakfast....but when it comes to guns they are monolithic!

And thank God for that!

Politicians quake in their boots when they are forced to legislate restrictions on guns. Colorado was awesome;, those putz politicians who snuck in gun legislation in the middle of the night were actually recalled and given the boot.
 
I,ll be willing to give up any rifle or pistol over 60 cal ,in exchange for no mag clip restrictions and a simple lifetime unless revoked must issue ltc.


put that on the committee recommendation list.
 
Last edited:
W.E.C said:
I,ll be willing to give up any rifle or pistol over 60 cal ,in exchange for no mag clip restrictions and a simple lifetime unless revoked must issue ltc.


put that on the committee recommendation list.
Click to expand...

I don't have an issue with a shall issue license if it weeds out violent offenders. I don't believe someone should be stripped of their rights because of drug or alcohol abuse or they stole a candy bar when they were 14.
 
Every time there s some "compromise" on 2A rights what do we get in return? Nothing. There is no compromise just an erosion of rights.

Everyone thinks licensing "weeding" out undesirable people is good until they discover that they're the weed in the eyes of the man.
 
Last edited:
W.E.C said:
I,ll be willing to give up any rifle or pistol over 60 cal ,in exchange for no mag clip restrictions and a simple lifetime unless revoked must issue ltc.


put that on the committee recommendation list.
Click to expand...

No more compromises... We've given up enough over the years already. IMO, if you can afford the firearm, and the ammo to feed it, you should be able to own it. That's everything from a BB gun up to (and beyond) a Howitzer.

As for PP's... IF you're a violent felon, and a danger to society, you should never get out of prison. That would make it a non-issue. If you do your time, and you're NOT a danger to society, all your citizen rights are restored. If you commit a second violent felony, then death sentence. No more "three strike" programs.

I also support negating all the gun control legislation of the past ~100 years (both state and federal levels).
 

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