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Police to search for guns in homes

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Another waste of police resources and funding. [rolleyes]



Police to search for guns in homes
City program depends on parental consent

Globe Staff / November 17, 2007

Boston police are launching a program that will call upon parents in high-crime neighborhoods to allow detectives into their homes, without a warrant, to search for guns in their children's bedrooms.

The program, which is already raising questions about civil liberties, is based on the premise that parents are so fearful of gun violence and the possibility that their own teenagers will be caught up in it that they will turn to police for help, even in their own households.

In the next two weeks, Boston police officers who are assigned to schools will begin going to homes where they believe teenagers might have guns. The officers will travel in groups of three, dress in plainclothes to avoid attracting negative attention, and ask the teenager's parent or legal guardian for permission to search. If the parents say no, police said, the officers will leave.

If officers find a gun, police said, they will not charge the teenager with unlawful gun possession, unless the firearm is linked to a shooting or homicide.

The program was unveiled yesterday by Police Commissioner Edward F. Davis in a meeting with several community leaders.
globe graphic Pilot neighborhoods in search program

"I just have a queasy feeling anytime the police try to do an end run around the Constitution," said Thomas Nolan, a former Boston police lieutenant who now teaches criminology at Boston University. "The police have restrictions on their authority and ability to conduct searches. The Constitution was written with a very specific intent, and that was to keep the law out of private homes unless there is a written document signed by a judge and based on probable cause. Here, you don't have that."

Critics said they worry that some residents will be too intimidated by a police presence on their doorstep to say no to a search.

"Our biggest concern is the notion of informed consent," said Amy Reichbach, a racial justice advocate at the American Civil Liberties Union. "People might not understand the implications of weapons being tested or any contraband being found."

But Davis said the point of the program, dubbed Safe Homes, is to make streets safer, not to incarcerate people.

"This isn't evidence that we're going to present in a criminal case," said Davis, who met with community leaders yesterday to get feedback on the program. "This is a seizing of a very dangerous object. . . .

"I understand people's concerns about this, but the mothers of the young men who have been arrested with firearms that I've talked to are in a quandary," he said. "They don't know what to do when faced with the problem of dealing with a teenage boy in possession of a firearm. We're giving them an option in that case."

But some activists questioned whether the program would reduce the number of weapons on the street.

A criminal whose gun is seized can quickly obtain another, said Jorge Martinez, executive director of Project Right, who Davis briefed on the program earlier this week.

"There is still an individual who is an impact player who is not going to change because you've taken the gun from the household," he said.

The program will focus on juveniles 17 and younger and is modeled on an effort started in 1994 by the St. Louis Police Department, which stopped the program in 1999 partly because funding ran out.

Police said they will not search the homes of teenagers they suspect have been involved in shootings or homicides and who investigators are trying to prosecute.
globe graphic Pilot neighborhoods in search program

"In a case where we have investigative leads or there is an impact player that we know has been involved in serious criminal activity, we will pursue investigative leads against them and attempt to get into that house with a search warrant, so we can hold them accountable," Davis said.

Police will rely primarily on tips from neighbors. They will also follow tips from the department's anonymous hot line and investigators' own intelligence to decide what doors to knock on. A team of about 12 officers will visit homes in four Dorchester and Roxbury neighborhoods: Grove Hall, Bowdoin Street and Geneva Avenue, Franklin Hill and Franklin Field, and Egleston Square.

If drugs are found, it will be up to the officers' discretion whether to make an arrest, but police said modest amounts of drugs like marijuana will simply be confiscated and will not lead to charges.

"A kilo of cocaine would not be considered modest," said Elaine Driscoll, Davis's spokeswoman. "The officers that have been trained have been taught discretion."

The program will target young people whose parents are either afraid to confront them or unaware that they might be stashing weapons, said Davis, who has been trying to gain support from community leaders for the past several weeks.

One of the first to back him was the Rev. Jeffrey L. Brown, cofounder of the Boston TenPoint Coalition, who attended yesterday's meeting.

"What I like about this program is it really is a tool to empower the parent," he said. "It's a way in which they can get a hold of the household and say, 'I don't want that in my house.' "

Suffolk District Attorney Daniel F. Conley, whose support was crucial for police to guarantee there would be no prosecution, also agreed to back the initiative. "To me it's a preventive tool," he said.

Boston police officials touted the success of the St. Louis program's first year, when 98 percent of people approached gave consent and St. Louis police seized guns from about half of the homes they searched.

St. Louis police reassured skeptics by letting them observe searches, said Robert Heimberger, a retired St. Louis police sergeant who was part of the program.

"We had parents that invited us back, and a couple of them nearly insisted that we take keys to their house and come back anytime we wanted," he said.

But the number of people who gave consent plunged in the next four years, as the police chief who spearheaded the effort left and department support fell, according to a report published by the National Institute of Justice.

Support might also have flagged because over time police began to rely more on their own intelligence than on neighborhood tips, the report said.

Heimberger said the program also suffered after clergy leaders who were supposed to offer help to parents never appeared.

"I became frustrated when I'd get the second, or third, or fourth phone call from someone who said, 'No one has come to talk to me,' " he said. Residents "lost faith in the program and that hurt us."

Boston police plan to hold neighborhood meetings to inform the public about the program. Police are also promising follow-up visits from clergy or social workers, and they plan to allow the same scrutiny that St. Louis did.

"We want the community to know what we're doing," Driscoll said.

Ronald Odom - whose son, Steven, 13, was fatally shot last month as he walked home from basketball practice - was at yesterday's meeting and said the program is a step in the right direction. "Everyone talks a about curbing violence," he said, following the meeting. ". . . This is definitely a head start."

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/11/17/police_to_search_for_guns_in_homes/
 
If officers find a gun, police said, they will not charge the teenager with unlawful gun possession, unless the firearm is linked to a shooting or homicide.

Well,isn't that nice.Get an stolen gun off the streets,get busted with it and nothing happens.Must be nice to belong to a protected class of people.
 
I read this in the Herald this morning and my jaw dropped. They're more worried about the gun than the shitbum who acquired it. Typical Mumbles feel good bullshit.

Hey Menino you f*ck, make sure the law your ignoring isn't a "shall arrest." and Davis, you are some fine cop to go along with this.
 
Absolutely sickening, talk about a witch-hunt and harassment from the government as well as shitty parenting. Just like most gun control this is a racist waste of money that will solve nothing but the sheep will praise how proactive the police are being.
 
So it was first tried in St. Louis, of all places.

The program will focus on juveniles 17 and younger and is modeled on an effort started in 1994 by the St. Louis Police Department, which stopped the program in 1999 partly because funding ran out.

Only partly because of funding. I wonder what the other reasons could have been? [rolleyes]


"We had parents that invited us back, and a couple of them nearly insisted that we take keys to their house and come back anytime we wanted,"

[shocked] what's worse than "sheeple"?!?![shocked]
 
Voluntarily allowing the police to search your home doesn't seem like a particularly intelligent course of action...
 
I guess Goose-Stepping between houses isn't required if you ask nicely to search. [angry]

Screw the slippery slope, this just became an express elevator to police-state hell ! [sad2]
 
What the f*** happened to parents being parents? Sorry about the language, but this is about the most sorry assed article I have read for a long time. Are you telling me that these loser parents have totally lost all control of their kids, that the only option is to get the cops to search their bedrooms? WTF????
 
More communism by one of the chief progenitors of it in
america- mumbles menino and his pal, sluggo davis.

"Please forfeit your 4th amendment rights.... it's for the community. " [rolleyes]

In a perfect world anyone who suggested this shit would be
thrown in jail for conspiring to violate someone's civil rights.

-Mike
 
What the f*** happened to parents being parents? Sorry about the language, but this is about the most sorry assed article I have read for a long time. Are you telling me that these loser parents have totally lost all control of their kids, that the only option is to get the cops to search their bedrooms? WTF????

+1 [angry]

If I found my daughter hiding a gun against my will she would get the beating of her life. Period.
 
If you refuse, does that give them probable cause to get a search warrant? Glad I don't live in Boston!
 
If I found my daughter hiding a gun against my will she would get the beating of her life. Period.---jose
I understand your sentiment, but would you really beat your child?

jkelly
 
This just makes me [puke]

I wish I was a young, low-income urban male. Then I could break the law as much as I wanted without fear of legal consequences.

F'ing asshats. [frown]
 
I don't need your parenting advice. I don't need your advice on any topic, come to think of it.

I wasn't offering advice. I was merely pointing out what a waste of space you are. It's just scary that you passed on your genes. Asshat. [laugh]

Don't piss off the pregnant lady, dumbass. We have no off button.

I don't understand why Jim and Scrivener have had turns in banishment land yet they continue to let you post here... [rolleyes]
 
I'm of two minds on this.

One, the police going to the homes of these kids and asking permission to search is an affront to the Constitution and an affront to liberty in general. This is especially true when taken in light of the onerous restrictions on gun ownership in the Commonwealth. Think "slippery slope" folks.

Two, if these homeowners are so uneducated or downright ignorant of their rights and agree to be searched, I have no pity for them.

Overall, my disgust for the government of Massachusetts is tempered by my disdain for the sheep who live there.
 
I wasn't offering advice. I was merely pointing out what a waste of space you are. It's just scary that you passed on your genes. Asshat. [laugh]

Don't piss off the pregnant lady, dumbass. We have no off button.

I don't understand why Jim and Scrivener have had turns in banishment land yet they continue to let you post here... [rolleyes]

You ain't seen asshat yet.
 
+1 [angry]

If I found my daughter hiding a gun against my will she would get the beating of her life. Period.

Jose,

If that is your response then I would say that you have already failed as a parent.
 
Really? What would you do? Give your child a time out?

You know nothing about my parenting.

I'd say if your daughter is hiding a gun, you failed as a parent long before that point.
 
I don't need your parenting advice. I don't need your advice on any topic, come to think of it.

Why are you even on this board? Last I checked, Ohio isn't part of New England.
 
You know nothing about my parenting.

Really?

How about:

Jose:
If I found my daughter hiding a gun against my will she would get the beating of her life. Period.

Jose:
I don't need your parenting advice. I don't need your advice on any topic, come to think of it.

Jose:
You ain't seen asshat yet.

I think that you have exposed/explained yourself and your parenting style very well thank you.

Viper: "I guess that about covers fly-bys.".
 
The OP is somewhat related to a lack of parenting in a particular community. The folks in Dorchester, Roxbury and Mattapan are so desperate for parenting they turn to policing. This idea reminds me of the social conditions during the American period of slavery. I thought freedom included not having the police act as Masters of the Plantation. Apparently some folks cannot parent and have no other person who can help them parent except the BPD?
This is a disgraceful situation and the ACLU should be all over it like flies on poop. Once again, the law abiding citizens are forced to endure another big crack in the foundation of our freedoms.
Best Regards.
 
  1. It's North East Shooters, not New England, and we interpret that rather broadly, since there are members from California and Europe here. No geographic, ethnic, racial, religious or age restriction apply.
  2. We really don't need to waste time with debates over parenting. People who don't have kids don't give a damn, while those who do already believe (rightly or wrongly) that they know everything.
  3. While we may not have seen someone's particular version of real asshat behavior, I doubt that most people have seen just how quickly and permanently such people can be disappeared from this forum.

Ken
 
The Original Topic regarding Police Searching Homes for Guns is an important topic. I believe it is so important that distracting side-topics and barbs between members should be moved to Off Topic under another title. Ken, thanks for call the time out. :)
Best Regards.
 
+1 [angry]

If I found my daughter hiding a gun against my will she would get the beating of her life. Period.

++1,what the hell ever happened to disciplining your kids???These are the people that should not be allowed by law to have children! They watch too much TV and expect everyone else to raise their kids for them.Some of these people are even inviting the cops back and giving up their house key....have they completely lost it.I would never want police in my house when I'm not home...even if I was home I wouldn't let them search my house!The politicians(and I think you can call most police chiefs in Mass.that)look at this as a footin the door.They get all the sheep parents on their side about this home invasion...I mean inspection that will say it's a good thing,and "it really helped my kid" blah,blah,blah,next thing you know they'll be trying to do this to EVERYONE![angry]
 
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