People on terrorist watch list allowed to buy guns

[Ray-500]

It has been said that if a lie is repeated often enough it becomes fact - as with the "felons are always inappropriate people to own guns".

Check out Hitler's "Goebbels". He was the info "Minister" and proopaganda strategist. Read him and you will see where your statement comes from. This was a sick puppy, ingratiating himself to a sicker puppy.

It is happening again, right now. Most of the media are so in love with the "ONE" that they will not print or say anything negative. Impartiality? Questioning? When and where have you seen it? Questions? Sure....."How's your dog doing?" "How did you like your ice cream cone?" Its total crap!

Read Alinsky's "Rules For Radicals" and you will see a play by play guideline of what is happening right now. Am not kidding in the least. This book and its ideals are the format for both the "ONE" and Hillary. They follow it and encompass its messages.

What is happening today is straight out of Goebbels and Alinsky. Think I'm kidding? Read.

 

[Negotiator]

Let me guess... "Dr. Evil"?

Close, very close

 

[cekim]

Close, very close

Still working on your thesis?

 

[Ray-500]

The end game problem when discussing this with antis or laypersons is it is very hard to get them to see the forest through the trees.

Me: "IMO anyone who should is/should be "blocked" from owning a firearm should remain in prison. "

Layperson: "Yeah, but that isn't how the system works now, so they should
keep the background checks.... I don't want convicted murderers being able to buy a gun... "

Me: -Bangs head against wall- "So you're willing to punish everyone else
for the acts of criminals?"

Layperson: "If it prevents a criminal from getting a gun a background check is not a real nuisance.... "

Me: "What if you were delayed or denied (eg, due to a false positive) and you NEEDED a gun?"

Layperson: "But that doesn't happen that often, blah blah blah.. ."

Me: "Yes, so if the government only deprives people of rights a relatively small number of times, then that somehow, makes it okay.....

Ad nauseam.... Some people just don't get it... even people who I think are intelligent. They still cannot fathom that the rights of the individual are
supposed to trump that of the collective, at least in the sense of how the government is supposed to treat it's citizens.

If I had a shitload of money and resources I would try to run an effort to document all the americans who have been "effectively" killed by gun
control. Part of the problem is mining data is hard (eg, to be able to "know" that some lady tried to buy a gun to protect herself from her violent ex husband/boyfriend) but I think it would pretty telling. I've often said if I was an all-seeing entity I could build a literal "aids quilt memorial" of people who are dead with "gun control" being a significant factor in their death. (Or injury, for that matter. )

-Mike

The "collective" from what I'm currently seeing, IS the mentality. Do not want to be a "Borg" and will never fit into the "collective". Unfortunately, from what I'm seeing daily, a lot of folks just follow....like ducks following the mama. Independent thought? Reason? Common Sense? Logic? Do these things still exist in everyday life?

 

[cekim]

Independent thought? Reason? Common Sense? Logic? Do these things still exist in everyday life?

Well, Independant Thought was always a luxury for the few and the brave, but the other ones you do see in small doses, but only where the consequences are minimal...

Everywhere else its like watching someone in Vegas with someone else's money...

As soon as consequences come home to roost, everyone turns communist immediately...

We have delayed the onset of adulthood past the average life expectancy with our government policies replacing parenting...

 

[GSG]

The NRA will never see another penny of my money if they push to have people on the watch list disqualified from buying a gun.

Ditto.

I have no problem denying gun ownership to convicted felons and what-not, but adding this bureaucratic list to the mix is ultimately a recipe for disaster.

I disagree...see below.

I have a buddy in Colorado that is on the list. He was riding 4 wheelers w/ a group of guys and the came too close to a radar installation that was not posted or fenced. He is a felon for trespassing on unmarked federal property. They were 1 mile from the installation. Talk about stupid.

One thing that our side needs to be cautious about is letting the public sentiment on an issue slide so far that there is no longer any argument that can be credibly made - as is the case with the us "felon prohibition" in the US, or arguing "defensive reasons for owning a gun" in Canada and England.

+1

we will never retain our rights if we start out looking to retain members from only 1/3 the population. Big tent. Erect it. Love of liberty and shooting the only pre-requisite. Not some ill-defined sense of political loyalty.

+1

There was one down in LA recently where a woman's hubby was killed and her gun was in the car because they were in a restaurant that served alcohol. They are tough to find but they do pop up on occasion.

Yep, you posted about it here, it was in TN.

Should a felon be stripped of their 1st Amendment rights too? I think everyone would agree no. This is a slippery slope. The fact is, if a felon wants a gun, he/she will and can get one. Restricting it is a wasted gesture. And a second point, if you don't trust someone who is walking free in society with a gun, why are they free? They could be just as dangerous with a car, a knife, their fists, etc. Restricting guns based on felony status is an anti-gun stance imo. There is no "line" where it is ok to restrict rights. As I said, it is a very slippery slope.

+1

The whole point of rights is that they are meant to supercede everyone's "comfort level." We have rights as human beings in the US, rights that were fought for, that many people died to protect. Our founding fathers paid much too high of a price for us to pick and choose who should have certain rights and who shouldn't. That is not for us to decide, or anyone else.

We need to fight against the Bill of Rights being trampled underfoot, and this means that we need to defend some scumbags from time to time. No, I don't like child rapists or armed robbers or crack dealers or white supremacist groups. In fact I despise them, I find their behavior offensive.

But, I love my country and my own rights so much that I will support anyone else's, even when the way other people excercise those rights disgusts me.

The right to own a gun is no more dangerous than the right to assemble, the right to due process, the right to not house soldiers, or any of the rest. Whether it's a neo-Nazi spouting hate speech, or a serial rapist hiring a damn good defense attorney, I want to make sure that they have the same access to rights that I do.

That's my view. Just like any other kind of love, if you're not willing to do it to the point of your personal discomfort, then it's not real.

If you love this country, if you love your rights, make it real love, not just what's comfortable. Be willing to do it when it matters, even when it'll cost you something.

 

[Bob P]

Still working on your thesis?

He didn't spend 8 years going to Evil Medical School to be called Mister!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

super secret terrorist watch list

You forgot the "secret federal trials" - which was discovered only when one federal court accidentally let a reporter see the "secret" rather than "public" docket.

 

[Ray-500]

Well, Independant Thought was always a luxury for the few and the brave, but the other ones you do see in small doses, but only where the consequences are minimal...

Everywhere else its like watching someone in Vegas with someone else's money...

As soon as consequences come home to roost, everyone turns communist immediately...

We have delayed the onset of adulthood past the average life expectancy with our government policies replacing parenting...

Agree with some...not all. Folks with balls and conviction do not look for "minimal".

As for "everyone" turning communist....can't buy it. No doubt there are those who will act as you describe. The "gimmee" folks definitely will until they learn. Folks who know better, those not looking for handouts, people looking to succeed and better themselves, those willing to work to get ahead...will not buy into it.

 

[Danrk6]

Pretty shocking article

 

[cekim]

Agree with some...not all. Folks with balls and conviction do not look for "minimal".

No, what I was saying is that "most people" are only willing to support Democracy and Freedom so long as they don't suffer any real consequences...

As soon as they lose their job or their house, they report to the processing center to have a bar code tattoo applied to their forehead...

As soon as it looks like some banks, automakers and insurance companies will fail, they run to the government "fix it"...

"Folks with balls and conviction" don't do that, but those people are few and far between.

It used to be that being an adult meant that you sucked it up and moved on when things went bad. If they went really bad, you went hat in hand to family and then community, but you worked your ass off to get out of that situation...

 

[GSG]

You forgot the "secret federal trials" - which was discovered only when one federal court accidentally let a reporter see the "secret" rather than "public" docket.

How scary is that?

 

[cekim]

How scary is that?

Double plus scary...

What's worse, it was crap like that which convinced almost reasonable people to swing over to voting for Barry (who has of course continued such policies[sad2])...

What I don't understand at this point though is if that's why you voted for Barry, why aren't you even angrier with him than you were at the Republicans?

 

[pdm]

What I don't understand at this point though is if that's why you voted for Barry, why aren't you even angrier with him than you were at the Republicans?

Bump another line of hopenchange. That'll fix things.

 

[Negotiator]

Still working on your thesis?

No, Thank God, but working on Book number 3