Others knowing you safe combo

[Reptile]

Is it illegal to share you safe combo with others who do not have a license.

I'd say yes.

I'm just wondering because my friend might want to get a gun but I think his overbearing wife will only allow him to if she can get into the safe too.

Pussywhipped? Yes, but it is a good question.

 

[wolf223]

they should both get permits... end of story.

 

[FalArAk]

I have mine posted on the internet.

 

[Ninsho]

Looks like a great excuse to get her an LTC too.

 

[Polibious]

I'm no expert, but when I took by basic safety class, the instructor (NE Trading) was very clear that only the people with a license have access to the keys. He was referring specifically to husband / wife scenarios.

 

[dagwag77]

Looks like a great excuse to get her an LTC too.

Only issue is if she might pop him with his own gun!

I'm no expert, but when I took by basic safety class, the instructor (NE Trading) was very clear that only the people with a license have access to the keys. He was referring specifically to husband / wife scenarios.

Do not give access to your gun safe to unlicensed/unauthorized persons. It can get you into issues when your gun is used for something you don't want it to be (pointed at you, stolen, used in a crime, sold by pissed spouse...etc).

 

[Half Cocked]

Is it illegal to share you safe combo with others who do not have a license.

To answer your question I would say No.

 

[dagwag77]

To answer your question I would say No.

From the MGLs:

Chapter 140: Section 131L. Weapons stored or kept by owner; inoperable by any person other than owner or lawfully authorized user; punishment

Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

(b) A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a firearm, rifle or shotgun that is not a large capacity weapon, by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000 or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and in the case of a large capacity weapon or machine gun, by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

It is illegal to give safe combo/access to firearms to those who aren't lawfully authorized users. This means a LTC holder you trust with your guns.

 

[Becka]

From what I have heard (and I am not a lawyer), it's hard to prove a negative. Such as, "I never gave the combination to my safe to my spouse." So why not just have the spouse licensed as well, so it won't come into play.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

To answer your question I would say No.

It would be "no" if the guns inside had trigger locks or were disassembled and kept in separate areas....

 

[Half Cocked]

Chapter 140: Section 131L. Weapons stored or kept by owner; inoperable by any person other than owner or lawfully authorized user; punishment

Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

Notice the word or... Just my opinion but you are only required to have it in a locked container. IF not in a locked container the rest of the language applies.

Again... my opinion of the legal interpretation.

My personal feeling is that it is foolish to do so and asking for problems.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Chapter 140: Section 131L. Weapons stored or kept by owner; inoperable by any person other than owner or lawfully authorized user; punishment



Notice the word or...

which is just what I said, because you cant answer the OP's question without knowing the status of the firearms inside......

 

[Twigg]

Is it illegal to share you safe combo with others who do not have a license.

I'd say yes.

I'm just wondering because my friend might want to get a gun but I think his overbearing wife will only allow him to if she can get into the safe too.

Pussywhipped? Yes, but it is a good question.

Was she at the beach recently ?

Looks like the MGL's prohibit granting access to unlicensed individuals.

That's a recipie for disaster right there. No telling what she'd do with 'em, sell them on the street ? Throw them out the car window in some random location ? Shoot him with his own gun ?

Very, very bad juju.

 

[Half Cocked]

which is just what I said, because you cant answer the OP's question without knowing the status of the firearms inside......

But I am saying that they are not even needed inside so long as it is locked. Just my opinion.

 

[Len-2A Training]

From what I have heard (and I am not a lawyer), it's hard to prove a negative. Such as, "I never gave the combination to my safe to my spouse." So why not just have the spouse licensed as well, so it won't come into play.

That's one of the major reasons that I insisted that my Wife get her FID and LTC way back ~30 years ago. Problem solved . . . and many years later she actually decided to buy some guns and shoot.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

But I am saying that they are not even needed inside so long as it is locked. Just my opinion.

wait, what? maybe I am missing something. Can you elaborate?

 

[Half Cocked]

Read my earlier post where I quoted and highlighted the law. It states:

(a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

The operative word is or not and...

Just my opinion but the line about rendering unoperable to any person but the owner is attached to a tamper resistant device which is absent a locked container.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Read my earlier post where I quoted and highlighted the law. It states:

(a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

The operative word is or not and...

Just my opinion but the line about rendering unoperable to any person but the owner is attached to a tamper resistant device which is absent a locked container.

I see. The way I see it is that a locked container deems the firearm unoperable to unauthorized users, so the extra wording was to make sure the tamper resistant device did as well......

 

[dagwag77]

Halfcocked, the law says the guns have to be inoperable in some way to those who are unauthorized. Whether it is inside a locked safe or with trigger/cable locks, ONLY people who are authorized should have access via combo/lock/etc. If you store/lock your guns with cable/trigger locks or store them disassembled in such a way they cannot be rendered operable INSIDE a safe then by all means give others the safe combo, as they still cannot gain unauthorized/unlicensed access to the firearms, then you're abiding by the law.

Read it like this (ignore the striked through part, where it shows your options, and get to the part after the comma where it states the goal of either option. IMO the comma separates your options from the goal of the law):

(a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is [STRIKE]secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device[/STRIKE], properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

The locking part of the container must be engaged (locked) or the cable/trigger lock engaged to prevent any person but the owner to get access to the guns.

 

[Half Cocked]

Halfcocked, the law says the guns have to be inoperable in some way to those who are unauthorized. Whether it is inside a locked safe or with trigger/cable locks, ONLY people who are authorized should have access via combo/lock/etc.

Where does it say that?... read my above post. The law only mentions "inoperable" when referring to tamper resistant locks absent a locked container.

Again.... just my opinion of the law absent any case law to the contrary.

 

[namedpipes]

(with thanks to HalfCocked for the MGL text)

Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

Section 131L. (a) You can't store guns in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

Section 131L. (a) You can't store guns except in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

Section 131L. (a) You can't store guns except in a locked container or it is locked with something like a trigger lock so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

Section 131L. (a) You can't store guns except in a locked container or it is locked with something like a trigger lock so that it can't be used by anybody but the owner or lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

Section 131L. (a) You can't store guns except in a locked container or it is locked with something like a trigger lock so that it can't be used by anybody but the owner or his buddy. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

Section 131L. (a) You can't store guns except in a locked container or it is locked with something like a trigger lock so that it can't be used by anybody but the owner or his buddy. None of this matters if the gun is being carried or used by the owner or his buddy.

What ISN'T totally clear is, do they mean:

Section 131L. (a) You can't store guns except ( in a locked container or it is locked with something like a trigger lock ) so that it can't be used by anybody but the owner or his buddy.

Or This:

Section 131L. (a) You can't store guns except in a locked container or ( it is locked with something like a trigger lock so that it can't be used by anybody but the owner or his buddy ).

 

[Half Cocked]

I see. The way I see it is that a locked container deems the firearm unoperable to unauthorized users, so the extra wording was to make sure the tamper resistant device did as well......

Yes... if not in a safe/locked container.

 

[namedpipes]

Where does it say that?... read my above post. The law only mentions "inoperable" when referring to tamper resistant locks absent a locked container.

Again.... just my opinion of the law absent any case law to the contrary.

(with thanks to HalfCocked for the MGL text)
Section 131L. (a) You can't store guns except in a locked container or ( it is locked with something like a trigger lock so that it can't be used by anybody but the owner or his buddy ).

I think HC is right on this one. The lock/inoperable seems to tie to the gun only outside the locked container (safe).

 

[Half Cocked]

I think HC is right on this one. .

Although I certainly do not advocate it....... unfortunately it is another example of a piss poor written gun law.

 

[dagwag77]

Wow, I know this is off topic, but I was over on Lexis Nexis looking for case law and I found this case. They actually tried to pin a OUI accident on both the store that sold the liquor to his friend who served the minor operator AND that the accident was the utility pole's fault:

KATCHER AFARIAN vs. MASSACHUSETTS ELECTRIC COMPANY & Market Basket, Inc & others. SUPREME JUDICIAL COURT OF MASSACHUSETTS

449 Mass. 257; 866 N.E.2d 901; 2007 Mass. LEXIS 372

OVERVIEW: The parents' son was killed when the automobile in which he was riding veered off the road and struck a utility pole. The underage driver was intoxicated and fell asleep at the wheel. The parents alleged the alcohol he consumed was given to him by a friend, who bought it at the supermarket, and that the utility pole was sited in a dangerous location. The pole was installed in accordance with applicable national standards and complied with Massachusetts regulations. The high court held that the utility companies were entitled to summary judgment because the driver did not deviate from the road in the ordinary course of travel, but due to his intoxication, which the utility companies could not have reasonably anticipated. Accordingly, they owed no duty to the son. The parents' proposed amendment was properly denied, as it involved a change of fact -- that the alcohol purchase took place at a different store -- and the supermarket they wished to add as a defendant would have been prejudiced by their undue delay in moving to amend the complaint, since it would have great difficulty in determining who worked at the store on the day of the alleged illegal sale many years earlier.

On a more related note, I can't find any case law where someone got in trouble for sharing a combo w/ a spouse, but as Becka I think said, its hard to prove you actually shared the combo. I'd say, the spirit of the law is don't give unauthorized people access to your guns. They really should learn how to write legislation more clearly. Assclowns.

 

[Half Cocked]

I'd say, the spirit of the law is don't give unauthorized people access to your guns. They really should learn how to write legislation more clearly. Assclowns.

Actually...the spirit of the law is too keep them from being fired by children. A trigger lock does nothing in preventing access to your gun as you can just carry it away.

If it was about access a locked container would be mandated.

But yes..... the wording of the law is terrible.

 

[packingungal]

The situation with laws - some begin to wonder....would I be guilty by association!

 

[Lynne]

The simple answer, as some have already said is = No, an unlicensed individual cannot have access to your safe if said safe contains any firearm that does not also have a "tamper resistant mechanical locking device" or any other kind of safety device which disables it's use by said unlicensed individual.

 

[Erebus]

The simple answer, as some have already said is = No, an unlicensed individual cannot have access to your safe if said safe contains any firearm that does not also have a "tamper resistant mechanical locking device" or any other kind of safety device which disables it's use by said unlicensed individual.

And I think the skinny on it having a trigger lock or cable lock inside a safe/locked container is simple. If it's inside a safe/container that the unauthorized person cannot access/open it's pretty effectively rendered inoperable by that person.

You can't eat the ice cream if you can't open the freezer it's in.

 

[KMaurer]

If you store any firearm in such a way that an unauthorized or unlicensed person could easily get it and use it, expect to find your self neck deep in the slimy brown. The intent of the law (obvious to anyone other than an amateur lawyer despite the best efforts of our linguistically challenged legislators) is to prevent this outcome. Anyone who honestly believes otherwise might want to test their convictions by posting the combination to their safe in plain sight above the safe, then inviting the police to inspect their storage.

Ken