Old shooter needs help with new rifle

[Socratactical]

Greetings all. I'm new to the forum, sort of. I've been lurking.

Here's my deal. I need help. I've been a handgun shooter for nearly 20 years BUT I have very little rifle experience. Recently, I purchased my very first AR15 (A Bushmaster XM15). It's an unfamiliar animal. And while I'm putting rounds on the paper at 50 yards, I'm simply not getting the results I want. My groups are inconsistent and my rounds are all hitting to the right of center. It's a mess. I've tried adjusting the sights for windage. I've put my nose to the charging handle, I've backed it away from the charging handle. I've sprawled out on the ground. I've twisted myself into a small fetal position. Nothing I do seems to work. It seems that I am having trouble assessing where I am going wrong. Could anyone recommend a good rifle coach, or even an accomplished Marine in the Woodstock/Randolph, VT area? I'd really appreciate a little help with my technique. Thanks so much.

 

[Jose]

Welcome to the world of rifle marksmanship. I had the same thing happen in reverse (going from rifles to handguns). Then one day I bought a Smith & Wesson K frame and I found handgun bliss.

I wish I were closer. Teaching motivated people to shoot is a blast.

 

[Socratactical]

Thanks, Jose. I agree. I've taught NRA basic pistol and some non-NRA defensive workshops. Teaching is very rewarding. Now I must revert to being student.

 

[bpm990d]

July 11th & 12th there is a high power clinic at EAFR in Jericho.

B

 

[Jose]

July 11th & 12th there is a high power clinic at EAFR in Jericho.

B

Take him up on this. Seriously. I know you know the value of good coaching and these clinics are as good as it gets.

 

[dixidawg]

Appleseed is your friend.


There's one in Vermont this weekend

 

[Silver74]

July 11th & 12th there is a high power clinic at EAFR in Jericho.

B

I sounds grate!!.

Too far for me to attend but looks good for the OP

+ 1 on the Appleseed

 

[type911]

Sounds like your pulling the trigger rather than squeezing it. Dry fire about 15 times and watch your barrel. Finger on trigger placement as well. Just a few of the more obvious things.

 

[Socratactical]

July 11th & 12th there is a high power clinic at EAFR in Jericho.

B

Thanks. I looked at their website. I plan to sign up for the August session. I can't make it in July.

 

[n1oty]

1. Consistent stock weld.
2. Consistent breath control.
3. Consistent trigger squeeze.
4. Concentrate on the front site post.

God, the PMI's practically beat that into us.

Greetings all. I'm new to the forum, sort of. I've been lurking.

Here's my deal. I need help. I've been a handgun shooter for nearly 20 years BUT I have very little rifle experience. Recently, I purchased my very first AR15 (A Bushmaster XM15). It's an unfamiliar animal. And while I'm putting rounds on the paper at 50 yards, I'm simply not getting the results I want. My groups are inconsistent and my rounds are all hitting to the right of center. It's a mess. I've tried adjusting the sights for windage. I've put my nose to the charging handle, I've backed it away from the charging handle. I've sprawled out on the ground. I've twisted myself into a small fetal position. Nothing I do seems to work. It seems that I am having trouble assessing where I am going wrong. Could anyone recommend a good rifle coach, or even an accomplished Marine in the Woodstock/Randolph, VT area? I'd really appreciate a little help with my technique. Thanks so much.

 

[Socratactical]

1. Consistent stock weld.
2. Consistent breath control.
3. Consistent trigger squeeze.
4. Concentrate on the front site post.

God, the PMI's practically beat that into us.

Thanks for your reply. These are good things to keep in mind. But there's consistently right and there's consistently wrong. Before I can be consistent, I need to be correct. Right now, I'm doing everything you've suggested and I am consistently doing it wrong. And what's a PMI?

 

[n1oty]

Primary Marksmanship Instructor!

Thanks for your reply. These are good things to keep in mind. But there's consistently right and there's consistently wrong. Before I can be consistent, I need to be correct. Right now, I'm doing everything you've suggested and I am consistently doing it wrong. And what's a PMI?

 

[Socratactical]

Thanks n1oty. And thanks so much for your service to our nation.

 

[survivedetroit]

Here is a link to the Marine Corps Marksmanship Manual:

http://www.ar15-kits.com/unitedstatesmarinemcrp.pdf

It's 117 pages and very thourough.

Chapter 4 covers the fundamentals of marksmanship.

The whole manual deals with using the m16

 

[Jose]

1. Consistent stock weld.
2. Consistent breath control.
3. Consistent trigger squeeze.
4. Concentrate on the front site post.

God, the PMI's practically beat that into us.

You forgot the one thing that makes all other four worthless if you lack it: natural point of aim.

 

[Len-2A Training]

You might ping "Nickle" here. He's US Army, if you don't mind.

He can also be found sometimes at Farnsworth Ammo in Vergennes, VT 05491.

Nickle may be able to help you with this.

 

[Socratactical]

Here is a link to the Marine Corps Marksmanship Manual:

http://www.ar15-kits.com/unitedstatesmarinemcrp.pdf

It's 117 pages and very thourough.

Chapter 4 covers the fundamentals of marksmanship.

The whole manual deals with using the m16

Yeow! That's a great resource. Thanks. I don't know if it will help me with my current trouble. But it is certainly a great way to learn the platform. Thank you so much.

 

[Socratactical]

You might ping "Nickle" here. He's US Army, if you don't mind.

He can also be found sometimes at Farnsworth Ammo in Vergennes, VT 05491.

Nickle may be able to help you with this.

Vergennes is about 100 miles from me. But it may be worth calling Nickel to see if he knows someone closer. Does he work at Farnsworth Ammo?

 

[Len-2A Training]

He's a partner with his Father.

Good luck.

 

[Kalahari]

You forgot the one thing that makes all other four worthless if you lack it: natural point of aim.

Bingo.

Aim at the bullseye. Close your eyes. Take a nice, deep breath, and relax. Open your eyes. If you're still on target, take the shot when appropriate. If you're not, adjust your body accordingly.

 

[GrendelKhan]

Appleseed is your friend.


There's one in Vermont this weekend

+1

Appleseed taught me much. VERY much worth it for me. I highly recommend Appleseed, especially for those who need the basics.

 

[calsdad]

Thanks. I looked at their website. I plan to sign up for the August session. I can't make it in July.

Definitely do the Appleseed. If you want to do something in the meantime download some of their literature, there is a "how to" doc somewhere in there that has pictures of all the different types of shots off target you will experience - and the reasons behind them.


When you do the Appleseed they will not start off assuming your sights are off - they will assume that something you are doing is off. Start with that.

Edit: Check out the Appleseed forum here on NES, there are occasional "mini" Appleseeds that are usually in the evening or on a weekend and only last a couple of hours.

 

[massgun]

Lots of great advice here, particularly the Appleseed bit. If you know anyone with rifle experience, particularly the AR, get them to shoot your rifle. Shoot it off a bag or other rest to eliminate as much movement as possible. If they do well and can make sure the rifle is zeroed properly, then the problem is most likely you! Once you know a rifle is shooting well, you can concentrate on learning and refining your technique. The AR is a great rifle, have fun with it and good luck!

 

[Socratactical]

Thanks all. It appears there are many Appleseed proponents here. I'll look into one of their clinics.

 

[Admin]

God, the PMI's practically beat that into us.

We only beat the ones who held Minute of Mattress.

 

[Mike-Mike]

We only beat the ones who held Minute of Mattress.

Ok, please explain this one.

 

[survivedetroit]

Yeow! That's a great resource. Thanks. I don't know if it will help me with my current trouble. But it is certainly a great way to learn the platform. Thank you so much.

No problem!

 

[Cabinetman]

All excellent suggests, especially NAP (natural aim point). More guys string shots because they are just mildly twisted and don't realize it. That AR should put shots easily into a 50 yard target in a nice goup, off hand, standing. As mentioned, set your feet and don't move them. Close your eyes and bring your rifle to position. Now open you eyes and see where you're aiming. Need to adjust to be on target? Don't twist your body. Instead, leaving your left foot planted (assuming you're a r/h shooter) pivot on it moving only your left foot either right or left, depending on the correction until you are on target. Now, lower your rifle, close your eyes, and then reset your rifle to your cheek and open your eyes. You should be in the black each and every time only having to make a minor correction.

Also not mentioned, however, is your ammo. What make and model of AR do you have? Are you shooting the correct ammo? 55 grain is what's needed in a 1/12 twist barrel (21"). For more modern uppers, the heavier grain round is required and those barrels usually have a 1/9 twist. I may not make a huge difference but one nonetheless.

Rome

 

[Socratactical]

"NAP" . . . Set your feet and don't move them. Close your eyes and bring your rifle to position. Now open you eyes and see where you're aiming. Need to adjust to be on target? Don't twist your body. Instead, leaving your left foot planted (assuming you're a r/h shooter) pivot on it moving only your left foot either right or left, depending on the correction until you are on target. Now, lower your rifle, close your eyes, and then reset your rifle to your cheek and open your eyes. You should be in the black each and every time only having to make a minor correction.
Ammo. What make and model of AR do you have? Are you shooting the correct ammo? 55 grain is what's needed in a 1/12 twist barrel (21"). For more modern uppers, the heavier grain round is required and those barrels usually have a 1/9 twist. I may not make a huge difference but one nonetheless.

Rome

Thanks Rome. I am using 55 grainers in a 1:7 twist barrel. So that might account for some of the inconsistent groups. I'll try adjust my body some for the NAP. Hopefully, that'll bring impacts over to the left a little. If I can do that, I'll be much happier. I can tell the rifle wants to do it's job. I just keep getting in its way.

 

[MassBites]

Greetings all. I'm new to the forum, sort of. I've been lurking.

Here's my deal. I need help. I've been a handgun shooter for nearly 20 years BUT I have very little rifle experience. Recently, I purchased my very first AR15 (A Bushmaster XM15). It's an unfamiliar animal. And while I'm putting rounds on the paper at 50 yards, I'm simply not getting the results I want. My groups are inconsistent and my rounds are all hitting to the right of center. It's a mess. I've tried adjusting the sights for windage. I've put my nose to the charging handle, I've backed it away from the charging handle. I've sprawled out on the ground. I've twisted myself into a small fetal position. Nothing I do seems to work. It seems that I am having trouble assessing where I am going wrong. Could anyone recommend a good rifle coach, or even an accomplished Marine in the Woodstock/Randolph, VT area? I'd really appreciate a little help with my technique. Thanks so much.

Have you sighted it yet?


There is a little setting on the A2 rear arpiture. Set the elevation to the zero mark. Get yourself a front rifle wrist off of a bench, take 3 shots and see where the rounds are hitting.

If the taget still has to move to the left, move the rear arpiture left. At that point you should only front elevation sight. Then fire 5 rounds ans see if you're on target.

Repeat if necessary until you have zeroed the rifle.

If the rifle is hitting consisently from a becn rest, then the problem is ....ummm....you. From that point, you can fall back on your pistol experience and apply that discipln to the rifle.


If the rifle is not holding correctly or the rounds are going alll over the place from the bench rest, have an experienced rifle shooter fire it from the bench rest and check the grouping. Its a good probablility that your problem is going to be indexing.

Oh and....PS: Bushmaster rifles have a 1 in 9 twist, which is a good all-around barrell for 223/5.56. It should bb able to go from a 45 gr round up to about 70. ( Ideally speaking of coures. )