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Non resident LTC

Discussion in 'Rhode Island Laws' started by GadgettR1, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. GadgettR1

    GadgettR1

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    I recently applied to the AG for a RI non resident LTC (Mass resident). Needless to say I got a denial letter, which I'm planning on appealing. What experience/recommendations does anyone have? I'm a NRA certified instructor, RSO and 03 FFL holder. I'm also a member of the RI National Guard. Recently I started getting requests to do quals and training in RI, so I'm looking to expand my business. As such I wanted to get my RI LTC and was surprised at the denial. Should I get a lawyer to go to the appeal process? Recommendations? Anyone with experience with the BCI Chief, who I've been told is not pro military and is the person causing all the denials?


    Thanks,

    Chip

    [email protected]
    [email protected]
     

  2. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    Attorney Keith Langer is a member of the RI bar, and I don't mean that he goes to that state for drinks on a regular basis.

    The key to a RI AG approval is a "unique need" - think a truthful verifiable reason that most individuals cannot establish by writing a nice essay or verbal assertion.

    The appeal is held before the person who denied you, but the track record of winning is probably greater than appeals before an independent (yeah, right) judiciary in MA.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  3. GadgettR1

    GadgettR1

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    I did the essay with what I thought was a realistic need. Between wanting to expand my business, purchasing with my 03 FFL, and my RI National Guard affiliation (which just prior to my applying I had been notified by command that my info had been compromised by a group with known terrorist ties. All of which was mentioned in my "need" letter.
     
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  4. iceberg8389

    iceberg8389

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    Your first mistake was applying through AG....that's asking for a denial. Should have applied through a friendly town, which 90% of them now are. I know for a fact the town of Johnston will issue non-res permits if you hold a valid permit in any other state, no questions asked, as long as you have no dis-qualifiers. You may have a better chance just reapplying through a town, although you will now have to overcome the previous denial from the AG. Still possible though, I would rather do that than appeal the AG.

    When I received my RI CCW, the Johnston PD detective I dealt with was very informative with a wealth of info. He was the one who told me they will issue non-res permits to anyone with a valid permit in any other state, and that if you apply through the AG and get denied, it makes approval through a town a bit more difficult for the PD itself because they have to investigate why you were denied. If it was lack of "Need" it can be overcome because towns permits are "Shall issue" and "Need" is not part of the requirement, like it is through AG. Good Luck!
     
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  5. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    What is the term on the RI town permit? Do you still need to do the special RI shooting test thing to get the RI town permit?

    -Mike
     
  6. iceberg8389

    iceberg8389

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    Yes, still required to do live-fire qualification (195pts or better out of possible 300) with the highest caliber you intend to carry (i did .45 cal). Permit good for 4 years, valid throughout the entire state.
     
  7. newportri

    newportri

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    Those qualifications typically will result in a permit, but they usually deny the first time. They figure if you want it badly enough you will appeal. Request all information that was used to deny you (you are entitled to this accotfing to the Mosby v Devine case in the RI Supreme court) and request an appeal. Who is the Chief now, Karalis?
    I cant recommend Langer for cases in RI, but rather use Strachman since has been very successful in the RI courts with gun cases.
     
  8. GadgettR1

    GadgettR1

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    Great, thank you for that info.

    Chip
     
  9. GadgettR1

    GadgettR1

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    I thought as a non-resident, you had to go through the AG? I guess I received wrong info on that.

    Chip
     
  10. GadgettR1

    GadgettR1

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    Is the Strachman you mention David J. Strachman?
     
  11. RImike

    RImike

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    Yes, Per RI 11-47-11 you can apply to any town: http://webserver.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/title11/11-47/11-47-11.HTM
    There are two ways to go, either ask for an appeal or to withdraw your application and re-apply to one of the 39 towns in the state.
     
  12. bostonasphalt2

    bostonasphalt2

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    hence why independent research is always a good idea before doing something. That denial will stay with you for any firearm license application (even renewal of your MA LTC).
     
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  13. GadgettR1

    GadgettR1

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    Yes, I know that much. :( Hopefully, I'll get it resolved. Either with a lawyer and appeal or by going through a town/city.

    Thank you

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thank you! I'll make sure to pass this on to the person I had trusted to not give me wrong information. :( ughhh

    Which is the better way to go? Appeal or re-apply?
     
  14. RImike

    RImike

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    If it were me, there is still no guarantee you would get it with the AG. Thus I would request to withdraw the application and apply to a town under 11-47-11.

    Cheers,
     
  15. iceberg8389

    iceberg8389

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    Incorrect, non-res is good to go through town PD's. And you can pick any town you would like, obviously it should be a friendly, issuing town.
     
  16. bostonasphalt2

    bostonasphalt2

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    From the sound of it, he was already denied by the AG, so withdrawing the application doesn't do anything for you
     
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  17. newportri

    newportri

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    The AG often offer the applicant the opportunity to withdraw an application although I'm not sure of the legality of it. Regardlesd, it is not a disqualifier in any state I know of.
     
  18. noxin

    noxin

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    Not usually a disqualifier, but almost every application I can recall does ask if you've ever been denied previously. It's a grey mark on your record and has to be explained away. One of the primary reasons I haven't applied in RI yet.
     
  19. RImike

    RImike

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    Apply in a town and your G2G
     
  20. newportri

    newportri

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    I was denied locally in RI, but I never had a problem getting a permit from another state and I have 6 other permits. Usually denials in RI are because an applicant doesn't demonstrate a need, which is not a requirement under 11-47-11 anyway. It's not much effort in my opinion to explain this, but people might have a different opinion.
     
  21. bostonasphalt2

    bostonasphalt2

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    I think the concern comes in when you apply in a state where the cards are already somewhat stacked against you, and you have to explain a denial, no matter how benign, during the application process. If one can avoid having to deal with explaining a denial, then it's definitely preferable.
     
  22. newportri

    newportri

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    The denial has never been an issue in MA where the gun laws are among the strictest in the country. I agree its best to not have to deal with a denial, but if someone wants a permit (in RI) they should apply.
     
  23. Overlord

    Overlord

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    Initial denial is standard practice by the RI AG and the majority is based on need. I strongly suggest contacting attorney Stephen M. Pezza from Cranston should you wish to fight it.

    In addition to being an attorney Steve is on staff as an instructor at Midstate Gun and has an excellent record in winning appeals.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  24. GadgettR1

    GadgettR1

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    Well, I had a meeting with Attorney Strachman today. I'm going to have him represent me and go forward with the appeal/meeting of the AG's decision. I'll let you guys know how it works out.
     
  25. mcgoo

    mcgoo

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    Good Luck!
     
  26. noxin

    noxin

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    General question : If you appeal the denial and win, do you still have to report it as a denial on future applications?
     
  27. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    This sounds like a fun question, legally speaking.

    "Well, technically I was never denied because ultimately the AGs office was forced to accept the application for a license which I submitted" sounds reasonable.

    There's also the "does it actually matter?" question. When someone is denied, is it actually logged in a CJ system somewhere, or is it something strictly based on institutional knowledge, etc. My guess is this is only a problem if someone licensing you starts calling around agencies where you may have attempted licensure and asked that question, as a perjury trap.

    -Mike
     
  28. newportri

    newportri

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    I would not consider it as a denial since I believe the denial even states you can appeal the decision. Its something you can ask Strachman through since there is no statutory appeals process. Btw, he is a great guy and a good lawyer.
     
  29. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    Guys, can we stop with the ad hominem bullshit? Just give it a rest.

    -Mike
     
  30. GadgettR1

    GadgettR1

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    I will ask that question when I speak with him next.

    Chip
     

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